MAMEWorld Forums - Welcome to the War Room - Re: Firemen shot dead in another gun crime

> >
> > Forget the NRA. This is about the 2nd Amendment. Granted, the language of it states
> > that we should be granted the right to defend ourselves from a tyrannical
> government,
> > but everyone should have the right to defend themselves, their family, and their
> > property from ANYONE.
>
> Well, being a citizen of a safer country, I had to read up on what the 2nd amendment
> is.
>
> ...obviously not important enough to be included originally.

Important enough that it had to exist BEFORE the original document was ratified by two of the 13 states.

> The reasons then, were
> * deterring tyrannical government; (how far do you think that would get you?)
> * repelling invasion; (who would invade America?)
> * suppressing insurrection; (the established armed forces can handle that)
> * facilitating a natural right of self-defense; (no longer relevant - call the
> police)
> * participating in law enforcement; (I doubt the police would want you)
> * enabling the people to organize a militia system. (you would be arrested)

Wow. You don't need the ability to fight the government, because the government will fight you for you. You think several of the reasons that are "being separate and/or safe from the government" aren't needed because the government exists. Also, you think the police can actually respond to emergency calls in time to protect people. They are only required to show up afterward, and maybe conduct an investigation.

Last year (2011 for the time travelers), NYPD took, on average, 8.4 minutes to respond to a crime "in progress." NYC is one of those places where you have no option other than that call. You can only get a gun if you're "important" enough.

> As I understand it, it would take a majority of voters in a majority of states to get
> rid of it. However, while voters are happy for the underhanded removal of rights,
> they would not stir themselves to make themselves safer. Doing nothing is easiest.
> Such is the life of sheeples.
>
> So, the 'right' to 'bear arms' will not be going away anytime soon. Requiring
> training or a licence or a safe only affects those unlikely to shoot someone.

You have a narrow definition of "affect." Training "affects" the guy who picks a target that knows what he's doing. More training means that happens more. Training "affects" the guy that gives up and looks for another source of income because there aren't enough untrained targets. Training "affects" people who haven't got a clue what they're talking about when they say stupid things about how evil, bad, and scary guns are. Maybe it could even affect people who think there's some actual functional difference between guns depending on the color or the shape of the stock.

Licenses are required in most states, because they get money from them. They're nowhere near as important. Some states do quite well without them.

> Basically, anyone can get a lethal weapon at any place at any time, and store it
> however they like.

They're called knives and bats, yeah. I can get them at Walmart. Guess what I can't get there.

> Some states allow the carrying of concealed weapons which are
> loaded ready to kill.

Those are the safer states. The majority of the gun crimes happen outside them.

> The place is a quagmire. Over 9000 gun-related deaths in a year. The UK had 15.

Irrelevant statistics. Break it down. Who was killed by whom, when, where, why. "9000 deaths" includes those shot by police, shot by people defending themselves or their homes, shot by themselves, and even not shot, but dead in the vicinity of a gun.
15 deaths in the UK? 2003:

The rise wasn't entirely real, though. It was aided by "new procedures". Which means actually keeping records. And again, that was 2003. 2009 has that number down... by about 100. So that's 9,000+ times a gun was used without a death in the UK. But they haven't got a problem, because they're so damned cowed by the criminals that they hand everything over if they just see a gun. When someone there tries to defend themselves, THEY get arrested. (now I'll search for an example... Here's the top one at Google. He used a knife to defend himself. Took them a month to decide not to charge him with murder. That's not one of the "15" in the UK, but it would part of the "9000" in the US.)

Guns in civilian hands STOP* over 2.5 million crimes* in the US every year. An obviously small fraction of those include some of those "9000 gun-related deaths."

*Edited there.