MAMEWorld Forums - EmuChat - Re: Quick market survey

> - well, I guess I just wanted to specifically recommend that you allow both
> trackballs, and 4 spinners to be wired up at the same time, and on the same ports.
> The reason, is that if you have dual trackballs (rampart, marble madness), you might
> also wish to have spinners as well. Rather than getting another encoder, or swapping
> things out... some sort of cycle pin might be a nice way to control how the user
> selects which controls are active... yet not actually needing 22 optical input pins,
> because most of the pins would be shared.
>

The devices would need some type of latching enabled via software. Possible, but I don't know of anyone who would have 4 spinners and 2 trackballs on the same panel. I'd have to think about the extra ~80 cents needed to do that...

> - I had a feeling you would say that. Its a shame too, because a game like T2 isnt
> the same without the powerful kick of a real coil. I can only hope Someone makes a
> plug-n-play coil board. If it were as simple as wiring up a relay to a larger coil,
> it would be cake. However, you cant find affordable power supplies that do like
> 30v... so that leaves you with needing to know how to step up the voltage. I think
> that means using a transformer... but thats beyond me. It also means you need to
> diode the thing with the correct diode, to protect the controller from burning out.
> Ive seen people hack things together, however, none of them seemed 100% sure or
> confident of the things.

> Time Crisis, T2, Point Blanc, Qbert, Pinball games, and many many more, utilize
> coils. I think it would sell quite well, if only for T2... let alone Time Crisis...
> and all the pinball builders out there would flip for the added realism to put into
> their virtual pinball tables.

Finding power to activate coils isn't the hard part at all. It's the variable amount of ways that coils were used, the types of coils used, voltages used...etc. Chances are if you have that level of detail that you are using a real gun anyway. It's MUCH easier just to throw a line out to activate a relay. I wouldn't see a need to concern for any more than that, nor waste board space or money on it. There are plenty of sites, including this one, that can help you wire a relay. A lot of guns used motors with weighted shakers anyway.

> - I used to repair games in an arcade. Race Drivin actually uses all analog pots on
> their inputs. Not digital. Most arcade drivers use analog gas, brake, and wheel. Even
> most console games are all analog. Shifters and Clutches are usually digital... with
> exception to the sitdown versions of Hard/Race Drivin. There are also games like
> Afterburner, which use an analog thrust lever controller.
>
> I think 12 is a decent number. As I dont remember any game that used more than that,
> even when both machines were linked.

> The 10-Turn pot is obviously a special case, as only Race/Hard Drivin uses that.
> However, I think its really important to make support for such classic games to have
> their proper controller abilities. Race Drivins wheel is Epic. From center, its about
> 3 full turns in either direction, to full travel. (or 6 turns from far left to far
> right)
>
> I think some new-er PC games support 900 degree wheels... and while that may not be
> compatible, its possible that the larger turn ratio could be scaled using software,
> so that the Race Drivin wheel could be used in them.

The number of turns on a pot, or the number of pots you use could easily be handled in software. This isn't an issue. Depending on the chip I'd use I could probably allocate as many as 24. As I said before, you'd be sacrificing inputs somewhere else in doing anything beyond 3 pots.

> - Sadly, Mame does not allow for True 12 way controller support as it Should. In
> order to get around this crippling limitation... hardware MFGs have had to make a
> system which virtually sends a single keypress when you turn the knob, and the key
> sent would depend on the direction you turned. The big problem, with this, is that
> mame will never know which way is what. Your dial could be facing down.. but your
> on-screen character is facing up.

Not sure how MAME handles these, so I can't speak on it. All I know is that I can provide whatever signal MAME is looking for, I can't change the way MAME behaves.

> Another problem, is digital Shifters. Mame again does not support shifters
> accurately in the drivers. Most arcade shifters are either held on, or held off. All
> they would have to do is simply allow gamepad only input for that.. and we could have
> perfect shifter support without effecting their hacky 'click key to toggle' mode.
> So, in order to do this, the same kinda thing has to be done.. where the encoder has
> to be programmed to send one keypress when held on. One one keypress when held off.
>
> Digital Multigear shifters are even more of a mess.

Ditto.

> - I understand. However, and maybe Im wrong.. but I think checking and sending that
> much data wirelessly without any lag or problems, could be costly and difficult.

Possibly. Haven't looked into it with any great detail, and probably wouldn't for a bit. I'd definitely account for expansion just in case.

> - I dont know what a Ne-Wumpf is. Google didnt help either.

Sorry, mis-typed. Ni-Wumpf

> Most pinball logic is very simple. Just a bunch of loops and minimal logic. I cant
> imagine it being too difficult to simplify the creation process. Just like with
> website creation.. you can type it all out by hand in code... Or, you can use a drag
> and drop editor, and tweak a few parameters. Weather it be hardware Risc based.. or a
> windows program that takes your data and compiles it into a more machine-friendly
> language.. is not a big deal. Its the user end result that counts. Ease and speed of
> creation.
>
> If someone can develop the hardware, Im sure I could spend some time making a
> logical framework for how the system could work.

Depends GREATLY on the goal. Any thing more than simple trigger signals for relays would be a logistical nightmare. You worked on arcades, so surely you've seen how many different types of kickers, motors, solenoids, lights, etc were used on various tables. Even if you could make the hardware variable enough to drive everything, explaining to the user how to set it up properly would be hell. Not to mention that if it's video pinball anyway, about the only things worth hooking up would be a kicker, chimes, and whatever topper the machine might have had...

Any scope beyond that is just too much IMO. Ni-wumpf and the like do a good job of recreating control boards on a common model basis anyway...