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mike20599
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Reged: 09/14/08
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Video poker logic?
#397712 - 01/17/24 10:55 AM


Does emulating those video poker machines offer any insight as to how they work? I was under the impression that they don't actually deal you cards the way you would get them with a physical deck and that the outcomes are predetermined at the beginning. Does anyone know?

I know the double or nothing feature that some video poker machines have is rigged. One card is dealt face up and another is face down. You have to guess if the face down card is higher or lower than the face up card. If they are equal it's an automatic loss. I don't remember which game it was exactly, but I save stated it before guessing, and the face down card will magically change to be the opposite of whatever you guessed most of the time.



Vas Crabb
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Reged: 12/13/05
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Re: Video poker logic? new [Re: mike20599]
#397714 - 01/17/24 12:55 PM


You can run them with MAME’s debugger active and follow the code. Most gambling games are obviously designed to deliver fixed odds.



Heihachi_73
I am the Table!
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 1074
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Re: Video poker logic? new [Re: mike20599]
#397730 - 01/19/24 08:49 PM


> Does emulating those video poker machines offer any insight as to how they work? I
> was under the impression that they don't actually deal you cards the way you would
> get them with a physical deck and that the outcomes are predetermined at the
> beginning. Does anyone know?

The outcomes are all down to the random number generator when you press the button, cards are "shuffled" every deal including the double up game, which is separate to the main game. The program code only needs to make sure that the same card isn't dealt twice in the same hand (again including the double up). The RNG endlessly generates results thousands of times per second regardless of what is happening (e.g. when no-one is playing the machine, or in test mode, or with a coin jammed etc.), and only once you start a game are the results activated. Same with slots (yes, even mechanical reel slots, if they are CPU-based like an S+ or whatever).

> I know the double or nothing feature that some video poker machines have is rigged.
> One card is dealt face up and another is face down. You have to guess if the face
> down card is higher or lower than the face up card. If they are equal it's an
> automatic loss. I don't remember which game it was exactly, but I save stated it
> before guessing, and the face down card will magically change to be the opposite of
> whatever you guessed most of the time.

Definitely sounds like a rigged double up, especially given the fact a matching card counts as a loss instead of a tie. It's probably a bootleg designed for a place where gambling was illegal, so people were forced to underground casinos to get their fix and had to play crap like this because there was no alternative.

However, you did say "most of the time". If it actually does pick a winning card every so often, even if it takes 20 load-states in a row, it's probably just a case of the random number god being a punk ass bitch and not picking the right card on the frame you pressed the button. If a save state fails to send your credits to the moon with the double up game it's definitely rigged though.

FWIW the Igrosoft slots also have a rigged double up where no matter what the choice is, the CPU will make you lose by always picking the opposite color of what you pick (the double up wins are probably rigged too, but in your favor to entice you to double up again and lose the lot).



Vas Crabb
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Re: Video poker logic? new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#397731 - 01/19/24 09:27 PM


> FWIW the Igrosoft slots also have a rigged double up where no matter what the choice
> is, the CPU will make you lose by always picking the opposite color of what you pick
> (the double up wins are probably rigged too, but in your favor to entice you to
> double up again and lose the lot).

That’s because the way it works is different. The double-up game is obviously designed to pay out at a fixed rate. It decides in advance if the current double-up should be a win or loss in order to maintain the target rate, and then selects a card as required to deliver a win or loss after you make your selection.

Gambling games are obviously “rigged” in that they have to deliver the payout rate configured by the operator. You can’t beat the system – over a large number of plays, it will always average out to the configured payout rate.



gregf
Ramtek's Trivia promoter
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 8608
Loc: southern CA, US
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congrats there to ya new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#397734 - 01/20/24 12:42 PM



Your (and others involved) updates have helped push the Gakken TV Boy off the spotlight stage when next release happens with tonnage of work there behind the scenes. Heh.

“ The TV Boy console shall not stand in the way of Aristocrat’s victory”.

* parody quote of Harry Morgan’s MASH tv show character General Steele’s remarks about 4077th radish garden from tv show episode.


New working systems - the Aristocrat Galore’ release

https://github.com/mamedev/mame/commit/072720e539a7d3fd55560441cad83ae4286871b6



The folks at the local bar (or pub) owe you a couple rounds.



jonwil
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Reged: 10/06/03
Posts: 536
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Re: Video poker logic? new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#397763 - 01/24/24 09:23 AM


Many jurisdictions require gaming machines to deliver out at fixed odds (usually with rules that require a minumum payout of x% of the money put in)



sirscotty
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Reged: 08/28/04
Posts: 232
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Re: Video poker logic? new [Re: mike20599]
#397793 - 01/30/24 09:51 PM


Very simple (and non technical) way to tell. Get to a point where it is double or nothing. Do a save state, and exit out. Reload the game 10 times, play the double or nothing, and see how many wins and losses you have.


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