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Mametesters Bug Bounty?
#397444 - 11/28/23 05:43 AM
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Has anyone done this yet? Perhaps something like a Patreon payout for Mame community programmers. It probably wouldn't be much money, but at least non-programmers would feel useful in the project by donating some money.
I'd be willing to donate to see 2682 fixed. Been around since 2008.
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Re: Mametesters Bug Bounty?
[Re: mikeky]
#397445 - 11/28/23 09:42 AM
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> Has anyone done this yet? Perhaps something like a Patreon payout for Mame community
> programmers. It probably wouldn't be much money, but at least non-programmers would
> feel useful in the project by donating some money.
>
> I'd be willing to donate to see 2682 fixed. Been around since 2008.
The problem with bugs like that is that any clown could spend 5 minutes hacking MAME up to give you the results you want, however a proper fix would have to be reasoned as far as hardware functionality goes.
Who would get the money? the clown who spent 5 minutes coming up with a hack, or somebody who worked years on a proper fix?
Throwing money as a 'bounty' into problems like this doesn't result in proper fixes, it results in people rushing to find a hack that will get them the cash.
It's the kind of thing one of the shitty builds like 2003+ (or another RetroArch core) would do, then try to claim your money while making false claims about being 'better than official MAME' without actually having a realistic fix for anything, only hacks.
This is especially true if you still want a 'black background' when I've never seen a real copy of this game with one, there's always been a blue tint to it.
Proper MAME development is like science, it takes time, what is included is the result of years of research, it is very different to traditional software development where most tasks are simply a case of working on the software.
Rather than bumping threads and nagging people, you need to start buying hardware and studying it.
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Re: Mametesters Bug Bounty?
[Re: Haze]
#397446 - 11/28/23 03:18 PM
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Why so much hateful attitude on this forum. I’m not nagging anyone. Learn some forum etiquette and stop throwing shade on people you don’t know. I don’t care how long you’ve been posting here, your comments cross the line and sound condescending.
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Re: Mametesters Bug Bounty?
[Re: mikeky]
#397452 - 11/29/23 02:59 AM
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> Why so much hateful attitude on this forum. I’m not nagging anyone. Learn some forum
> etiquette and stop throwing shade on people you don’t know. I don’t care how long
> you’ve been posting here, your comments cross the line and sound condescending.
You've bumped the bug report several times, and now started posting on the forums.
That is very much nagging.
Beyond that I explained why 'bug bounties' tend not work in cases like this; the path of least resistance is usually the wrong one.
A culture of people getting paid for doing the wrong thing would be very harmful to emulation in general, and is one that would be easily cultivated as 'seems right' & 'giving people want they want' with no consideration of the wider impact or correctness of the code is an easy sell to anybody who doesn't care about the code. In some parts of the scene this is already an issue.
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Re: Mametesters Bug Bounty?
[Re: mikeky]
#397460 - 11/29/23 02:53 PM
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> Why so much hateful attitude on this forum. I’m not nagging anyone. Learn some forum
> etiquette and stop throwing shade on people you don’t know. I don’t care how long
> you’ve been posting here, your comments cross the line and sound condescending.
Actually, the response you got is a really good explanation with valid reasons on why your suggestion of a 'bug bounty' is not a good solution, and even notes that the best thing you can do is find the original hardware so that things can be verified one way or the other.
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Re: Mametesters Bug Bounty?
[Re: Haze]
#397467 - 11/30/23 05:08 PM
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I was unaware that my post was suggesting people doing things for the wrong reason. I was just wanting a conversation about supporting the programmers doing the actual work. As far as me “bumping the bug” it was just an example off hand. Am I not allowed to post about anything that has ever been mentioned since 2008? I find it strange how easily people get their feels into this stuff. Too many effing gatekeepers keep everybody from enjoying the ride.
There are many other bugs I would enjoy having been resolved. BTW, who are these “clowns” that can fix bugs with hacks? Name one bug that was fixed by a “clown.” I already know I can buy a machine but this is a forum about emulation.
I have also put forth video proof of my claims on the mametesters page. It was to offer help not the demand something from programmers.
Emulation can be considered a hack of the real thing. Mame is not a sacred cow. It is cobbled together code trying to preserve achievements that has a powerful nostalgic draw. If some “clown” can improve that outcome then sell me some circus peanuts.
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Re: Mametesters Bug Bounty?
[Re: mhoes]
#397468 - 11/30/23 05:30 PM
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Not everyone has access to machines from 1981. I can only provide evidence that is available online. It’s just as valid as any other person in this forum offering up a topic for conversation. But to accuse me of nagging the very people I wanted to support is ridiculous.
Reading posts is a voluntary thing. Telling me to shut up, buy the game and get to learning sounds somewhat condescending. I don’t think it’s a good motto for moving emulation forward.
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Re: Mametesters Bug Bounty?
[Re: mikeky]
#397469 - 11/30/23 06:53 PM
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> Name one bug that was fixed by a “clown.”
pretty much every 'fix' that goes into things like MAME2003 Plus, MAMEUIFX (back in the day), ARCADE, and various builds claiming to be 'no nag' type affairs that are full of broken code because it's been hacked to 'fix' one specific issue.
They're often "people pleaser" fixes with no grounds in reality (often even going against how the machines work even for the end result) that people use to claim those projects are somehow better than real MAME (often because the people distributing them are also claiming them to be better than real MAME)
those people, combined with the likes of RetroArch grandstanding them are the clowns of the scene. I've heard plenty of times of people donating to RetroArch because of their hacked up builds incorporating crappy fixes similar to ones for the issue being discussed.
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Re: Mametesters Bug Bounty?
[Re: mikeky]
#397470 - 11/30/23 07:17 PM
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>
> Not everyone has access to machines from 1981.
>
And for reasons exactly like this, are what makes it hard to make sure that the emulation works in the exact same way as the original machines did. You need to verify it against the real thing.
>
> But to accuse me of nagging the very people I
> wanted to support is ridiculous.
>
I guess it depends on your definition of 'nagging'. Bumping a bug report - multiple times - with no other 'support' than saying things like "Hard to believe this bug is still around after 14 years" counts as nagging for me.
>
> Reading posts is a voluntary thing. Telling me to shut up,
> buy the game and get to learning sounds somewhat
> condescending.
>
If all your 'contributions' amount to complaining that the 'bug' isn't fixed yet, you can expect people starting to tell you how you can really contribute. Verifying against the real hardware is one such way.
>
> I don’t think it’s a good motto for moving
> emulation forward.
>
Demanding that other people do as you dictate certainly isn't either.
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Re: Mametesters Bug Bounty?
[Re: mikeky]
#397485 - 12/01/23 12:23 AM
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> Has anyone done this yet? Perhaps something like a Patreon payout for Mame community
> programmers. It probably wouldn't be much money, but at least non-programmers would
> feel useful in the project by donating some money.
>
This has been discussed before, and it's quite clear what the answer is.
There won't be any patreon.
There won't be any payments.
There won't be any bounties.
If you want to donate, donate to the Dumping Union. Do not attempt to donate to coders.
End of story.
If you want it fixed, then fix it yourself. The source code is available, nobody can restrict what modifications you make, whether or not certain people see changes as "undesirable" hacks. But the main thing is you need to step up if you truly want it done.
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