|
Cave Games Removal
#392890 - 01/01/22 02:15 AM
|
|
|
I just noticed the removal of 2 Cave games from M.A.M.E. (Multiple Amusements Machine Emulator) my take on M.A.M.E. since it does more than arcade now.
What's the full story behind the removal since Akai Katana has been in M.A.M.E. for ages & I know Dodonpachi Saidaioujou has only just been dumped so I can understand that, I think now someone is only gonna release a version of M.A.M.E. that is not authorized with both games included.
M.A.M.E. is always about preserving games so what's the full story. THANKS
|
|
|
|
Re: Cave Games Removal
[Re: agard]
#392891 - 01/01/22 03:02 AM
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Cave Games Removal
[Re: Robbbert]
#392892 - 01/01/22 03:25 AM
|
|
|
It's very sad to see these things & I do hope it gets resolved but regarding the hype it could turn out to be fake & someone with the pcb wanting to make money though there out there now so illegal M.A.M.E. builds will be going around IMHO.
Thanks for info
|
|
|
Dullaron |
Mitchell or Dunard Garaus
|
|
|
Reged: 07/22/05
|
Posts: 6134
|
Loc: Fort Worth, Tx
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
If it have typos in the letter then it could be a fake.
[Re: Robbbert]
#392895 - 01/01/22 05:15 PM
|
|
|
New Year prank? ![](//www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/oops.gif)
I get emails like that. Typos. lol
|
W11 Home 64-bit + Nobara OS / AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59 GHz / RAM 64 GB
|
|
ASI |
MAME Fan
|
|
|
Reged: 02/23/10
|
Posts: 30
|
Loc: UK
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: Cave Games Removal
[Re: Robbbert]
#392910 - 01/02/22 07:01 PM
|
|
|
The company is real... https://exa.ac/ja/games/dodonpachi-sdoj-exa-label/?v=0f177369a3b7
So if you want to buy the game and play then you gtoing to have to dig deep into those pockets. System is $2645 + cost of game at about $1200+
While sad, i agree that it had to be removed immediately. and cant blame them for protecting their copyright.
|
|
|
|
Re: Cave Games Removal
[Re: agard]
#392911 - 01/02/22 08:54 PM
|
|
|
Just curious but I thought emulation is not breaking the law? MAME doesn't provide roms.
|
|
|
|
Re: Cave Games Removal
[Re: agard]
#392912 - 01/02/22 09:27 PM
|
|
|
Bad Bad Idea on MAME team Now you might have CAPCOM and others demanding to remove arcade games from history. Then nothing will be saved. Plus too many games being censored already for having stuff in them. Just go look at Arcade1up latest releases of games. Just Please do not CAVE into more of these game companies. THANK YOU!
|
|
|
|
Re: Cave Games Removal
[Re: Escaton]
#392913 - 01/02/22 09:31 PM
|
|
|
Legally, there is nothing the game companies can do. Several game companies like Sony and Nintendo have sued the developers of emulators and lost. Bleem for example. Emulators aren't illegal because they aren't using any of the actual code from the console or arcade PCB's. Just the ROM's are illegal to download
|
Windows 11 64 bit OS
Intel Core i7-10700
Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 6GB
32GB DDR4 RAM
|
|
|
Re: Cave Games Removal
[Re: Envisaged0ne]
#392914 - 01/02/22 09:32 PM
|
|
|
Right then why did Mame remove them? Doesn't make sense to do it for one and not the others.
|
|
|
|
Re: Cave Games Removal
[Re: Escaton]
#392915 - 01/03/22 12:06 AM
|
|
|
> Bad Bad Idea on MAME team > Now you might have CAPCOM and others demanding to remove arcade games from history. > Then nothing will be saved. > Plus too many games being censored already for having stuff in them. Just go look at > Arcade1up latest releases of games. Just Please do not CAVE into more of these game > companies. THANK YOU!
It’s not the first time we’ve removed games following a request from rights holders. Arika requested that we remove TGM2 at one point, and Cave requested that we hold off CV1000 support to avoid interfering with their Xbox 360 and Steam releases. In practice, it’s very rare that rights holders ask for systems to be removed from MAME. In every case, the games are added again when circumstances change.
You probably already know about the “SaiDaiOuJou & Knuckles” hack. There’s another hack floating around that takes that hack and tries to repair it by replacing modified graphics with textures from the Xbox 360 port, or blanking them out if that’s not possible. There was a risk that people holding on to dead boards would use the hack of a hack to “repair” them and then try to flip them before the unmodified game dump surfaced. That’s been avoided.
|
|
|
|
Re: Cave Games Removal
[Re: Escaton]
#392916 - 01/03/22 12:07 AM
|
|
|
> Right then why did Mame remove them? Doesn't make sense to do it for one and not the > others.
We did it because we’re nice. We’ve done it for Arika and Cave in the past. The world hasn’t ended.
|
|
|
|
Re: Cave Games Removal
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#392918 - 01/03/22 12:35 AM
|
|
|
Also, and this is just my take on the situation ... It's probably best practice to do exactly what was done. It's the right thing to do for several reasons, first of which is that it's the moral thing to do. Also, we want to keep peace with the rights holders. Remember, MAME is a FREE project that is worked on with people's FREE time. Nobody is paid for their work on MAME and I really don't think anyone can afford to to tick off rights owners to the point of legal activity.
|
|
|
|
Everyone bitching is full of shit
[Re: agard]
#392925 - 01/03/22 03:44 PM
|
|
|
There isn't a single valid argument, it's just a bunch of reeeeeee-ing from entitled little shits who take, take, take and give nothing back to MAME in the first place.
"But Connectix! And Bleem! Emulation is legal!"
Great, and the lawsuits bankrupted those companies. Dunno about you, but while falling on a legal sword might be really noble, it's not a particularly productive thing to do.
"But it's not a legal notice!"
Great, MAME has never required it to be. When MAME withheld the CV-1000 driver at Cave's request, when TGM2 was withheld at Arika's request, they weren't legal requests either. They were simply requests from the legal rights-holders. The MAME team have no problem pissing off users, but pissing off other developers is hardly a great way to go through life.
"Well, so much for preservation then."
The ROM set is now pretty much out there, it's not in any danger of being lost, and by taking the gamble of receiving even a poorly-worded C&D from exA, it's now at least marginally less likely that CV-1000 boards will - when their notoriously flaky flash ROMs fail (or even before they do) - be reprogrammed with the hack of DDP SDOJ & Knuckles that replaced the meme graphics with assets lifted from the X360 version (and outright blanked graphics that they couldn't fix), and in fact more likely to be reprogrammed with the actual set. It's therefore less likely that people will attempt to pass off boards with that hack as genuine. That's a win for preservation on both fronts.
"Great, what's to stop Sega and Konami and Taito and Nintendo and Namco and, and, and-"
Slow down there, Chicken Little.
It's not exactly been a big secret among developers how to go about getting a game removed from MAME. Cave managed it, Arika managed it, HanaHo managed it. It's vanishingly unlikely that the rest of the industry isn't aware of the standing policy. The difference is that the rest of the industry is pretty well-aware that their own archival practices are garbage, and it's because of the existence of MAME incentivizing users to massively back up these companies' games that the games are still around for retro game packs.
The current policy is a friendly-to-developers option because, as previously said, it rarely pays to burn bridges with the industry as a whole, and the industry seems to have respected that so far. If the industry takes a decidedly unfriendly turn, that friendly policy is likely to go away.
Beyond that, exA is hardly representative of the industry as a whole. That is, given the founder, Eric "ShouTime" Chung, was himself a Dumping Union member and has his fingers in a whole lot of pies, and is a master of playing both sides. And given that their current programming lead, "trap15" Marshall, was once herself C&D'd by Cave for her own game hacking antics.
TL;DR: Is it an actual legal notice? No, probably not. Is it a risk worth taking? Are the users who are throwing a temper tantrum about their pwecious "l33t fr33 g4m3zzzz!11!!" going to go have a fucking bake sale to pay for legal fees if the dice come up snake-eyes? Fucking of course not. People will throw thousands of dollars at RetroArch, but actually supporting the emulators that allow it to exist is just a bridge too fucking far.
|
|
|
|
Re: If it have typos in the letter then it could be a fake.
[Re: Dullaron]
#392926 - 01/03/22 03:45 PM
|
|
|
You make spelling and grammar errors all the time, too, dude. Glass houses and all that.
|
|
|
Dullaron |
Mitchell or Dunard Garaus
|
|
|
Reged: 07/22/05
|
Posts: 6134
|
Loc: Fort Worth, Tx
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: If it have typos in the letter then it could be a fake.
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#392928 - 01/03/22 09:10 PM
|
|
|
> You make spelling and grammar errors all the time, too, dude. Glass houses and all > that.
True
|
W11 Home 64-bit + Nobara OS / AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59 GHz / RAM 64 GB
|
|
|
Re: Everyone bitching is full of shit
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#392930 - 01/03/22 09:40 PM
|
|
|
> Eric "ShouTime" Chung, was himself a Dumping Union member
Small correction: still is a member.
|
|
|
Dullaron |
Mitchell or Dunard Garaus
|
|
|
Reged: 07/22/05
|
Posts: 6134
|
Loc: Fort Worth, Tx
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: Cave Games Removal
[Re: ASI]
#392938 - 01/04/22 02:18 PM
|
|
|
> The company is real... > https://exa.ac/ja/games/dodonpachi-sdoj-exa-label/?v=0f177369a3b7 > > So if you want to buy the game and play then you gtoing to have to dig deep into > those pockets. > System is $2645 + cost of game at about $1200+ > > > While sad, i agree that it had to be removed immediately. and cant blame them for > protecting their copyright.
Ouch those prices. I gotten two Arcade1up cabinets with games cheaper. (Some of the games are modify. For example. Frogger music's been changed because of the copyright issue.)
|
W11 Home 64-bit + Nobara OS / AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59 GHz / RAM 64 GB
|
|
Andrew |
Girl Watcher
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
Posts: 5082
|
Loc: Boston, Mass.
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: Cave Games Removal
[Re: Escaton]
#392939 - 01/04/22 05:07 PM
|
|
|
> Bad Bad Idea on MAME team > Now you might have CAPCOM and others demanding to remove arcade games from history. > Then nothing will be saved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFZVfccYV1U
|
--
A story of one man and his obsession with the female anatomy.
|
|
|
Re: Cave Games Removal
[Re: Andrew]
#392955 - 01/06/22 07:37 PM
|
|
|
> > Bad Bad Idea on MAME team > > Now you might have CAPCOM and others demanding to remove arcade games from history. > > Then nothing will be saved. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFZVfccYV1U
Just so you know, Mr. Sujano has not approved comments from the official MAMEdev YouTube account, probably because they don’t play into his alarmist, clickbait take on the situation. Better not to draw attention to him.
|
|
|
|
Re: Everyone bitching is full of shit
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#392999 - 01/07/22 11:14 AM
|
|
|
All I wanted to know is what's the story behind Cave games getting removed as I know they was removed once before then a few years later they was added again so this time I wanted to know more about it.
The rom is all over the web so at least DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou is now preserved but people are gonna compile M.A.M.E. (Multiple.Amusements.Machine.Emulator.) (my take on it as it does more than just Arcade now.) with DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou & Akai Katana anyway so it's really not gonna stop people playing them.
DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou & Akai Katana on exa-arcadia are not the original Cave releases they have some differences.
I think something like after 10yrs is where games can be added to M.A.M.E. as by that time most people are more interested in other games so they would have made there money by then.
|
|
|
|
Re: Everyone bitching is full of shit
[Re: agard]
#393036 - 01/11/22 10:27 AM
|
|
|
> people are gonna compile M.A.M.E. (Multiple.Amusements.Machine.Emulator.) (my take on > it as it does more than just Arcade now.) Bad take since it also does non-amusement machines. :P
|
|
|
Dullaron |
Mitchell or Dunard Garaus
|
|
|
Reged: 07/22/05
|
Posts: 6134
|
Loc: Fort Worth, Tx
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou still on sale.
[Re: agard]
#393037 - 01/11/22 02:39 PM
|
|
|
|
|
Re: DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou still on sale.
[Re: Dullaron]
#393045 - 01/11/22 10:54 PM
|
|
|
Read the article, it is not a Neo-Geo or CPS2, it is "like" one in that it is a multi-system with interchangeable games. As in, it's a glorified video game console in an arcade form factor.
|
|
|
|
Re: DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou still on sale.
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#393048 - 01/11/22 11:51 PM
|
|
|
It's gotta be pc based too & I wonder if someone is gonna make an emulator for it like they did with taito type x games, that would piss off exA-Arcadia.
|
|
|
|
Re: DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou still on sale.
[Re: agard]
#393049 - 01/12/22 02:51 AM
|
|
|
> It's gotta be pc based too & I wonder if someone is gonna make an emulator for it > like they did with taito type x games, that would piss off exA-Arcadia.
There aren't any emulators for Taito Type X games. Teknoparrot is more or less just a shim that allows the games to be played on unmodified PC hardware, it doesn't really emulate anything.
|
|
|