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MAME Strider 2 emulation: What are the roadblocks ?
#387828 - 09/11/20 07:46 PM
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Hi,
I don't mean to nag, and hope I am not sounding like I am. However, I am interested in knowing what the roadblocks are in emulating 'Strider 2' ? I seem to recall vaguely that there are some issues with not just that game, but with all the games that are running on similar hardware (the same 'system'). So would that be a gap in the knowledge of how the (undocumented) hardware works ? A protection system that is not understood yet ? Something else entirely ? I seem to recall it is a tough issue, but I just cannot remember the details anymore. Anything that could be shared on the subject would be greatly appreciated. Meanwhile, I can always play 'Osman', which has a similar look n feel.
Thanks.
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Re: MAME Strider 2 emulation: What are the roadblocks ?
[Re: mhoes]
#387831 - 09/11/20 10:34 PM
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> Hi,
>
> I don't mean to nag, and hope I am not sounding like I am. However, I am interested
> in knowing what the roadblocks are in emulating 'Strider 2' ? I seem to recall
> vaguely that there are some issues with not just that game, but with all the games
> that are running on similar hardware (the same 'system'). So would that be a gap in
> the knowledge of how the (undocumented) hardware works ? A protection system that is
> not understood yet ? Something else entirely ? I seem to recall it is a tough issue,
> but I just cannot remember the details anymore. Anything that could be shared on the
> subject would be greatly appreciated. Meanwhile, I can always play 'Osman', which has
> a similar look n feel.
>
> Thanks.
Strider 2 is on the ZN2 (PlayStation-in-a-cabinet) platform, can't really think what would be an issue for it aside from the QSound emulation (almost all games in the driver are marked as imperfect sound except NBA Jam Extreme). Unfortunately the zn.cpp documentation doesn't mention a single thing about why Strider 2 is MNW aside from showing a small comment "random hangs / crashes" after the game title.
Quote:
GAME( 1999, strider2, coh3002c, coh3002c, zn, zn2_state, empty_init, ROT0, "Capcom", "Strider 2 (Euro 991213)", MACHINE_IMPERFECT_SOUND | MACHINE_NOT_WORKING ) // random hangs / crashes
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Re: MAME Strider 2 emulation: What are the roadblocks ?
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#387836 - 09/12/20 09:07 AM
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The game was recently marked as "machine not working" due to random crashes.
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Re: MAME Strider 2 emulation: What are the roadblocks ?
[Re: MetalGod]
#387837 - 09/12/20 01:22 PM
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> The game was recently marked as "machine not working" due to random crashes.
Recently ? Maybe my memory is failing me, but I seem to remember that Strider 2 already had random hangs ages ago. I think that in the past I never even made it past the first level due to these hangs (although the hang never occurred at the same point). The music would keep playing, but the screen froze.
So are you telling me that at some point it was promoted to 'working', only to be demoted back to 'not working' recently ? I need to keep up with changes in MAME more often. 
So I guess the current state is that it is currently unknown why these hangs occur, hence the 'unknown'. Ok, thanks.
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Re: MAME Strider 2 emulation: What are the roadblocks ?
[Re: mhoes]
#387839 - 09/12/20 02:21 PM
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> So are you telling me that at some point it was promoted to 'working', only to be
> demoted back to 'not working' recently ? I need to keep up with changes in MAME more
> often.
Yeah, someone managed to play it through and promoted it, but whatever the issue is that causes the random hangs was never fixed, so it got demoted again. It's probably relying on some weird corner case by pure chance. Given that it doesn't crash consistently, it's hard to isolate.
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Re: MAME Strider 2 emulation: What are the roadblocks ?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#387841 - 09/12/20 03:06 PM
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> Yeah, someone managed to play it through and promoted it, but whatever the issue is that causes the random hangs was never fixed, so it got demoted again.
Really ? Oh, wow. If things like this wouldn't (I expect to) be such a pain to all the people involved, it would almost be funny.
Also, I am surprised to hear someone actually made it to the end of the game without it hanging. Way back when I tried it, it consistently hung somewhere in the first level (but not at the same place in that level).
> It's probably relying on some weird corner case by pure chance. Given that it doesn't crash consistently, it's hard to isolate
Yeah, I guess that when you cannot reliably have a 100% reproducible testcase, debugging becomes really hard.
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Re: MAME Strider 2 emulation: What are the roadblocks ?
[Re: mhoes]
#387843 - 09/12/20 04:49 PM
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> > It's probably relying on some weird corner case by pure chance. Given that it
> doesn't crash consistently, it's hard to isolate
> Yeah, I guess that when you cannot reliably have a 100% reproducible testcase,
> debugging becomes really hard.
I think so too. It's also probably related to some common component with PlayStation emulation in general. Last time I tried most of them work without problems. Yet if you load "Medal of Honor" the game is unplayable due to not rendering the scenario past the first two minutes of gameplay at the very same spot. Or random hangs at "Syphon Filter" even during the attract mode.
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Re: MAME Strider 2 emulation: What are the roadblocks ?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#387848 - 09/12/20 08:14 PM
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> > So are you telling me that at some point it was promoted to 'working', only to be
> > demoted back to 'not working' recently ? I need to keep up with changes in MAME
> more
> > often.
>
> Yeah, someone managed to play it through and promoted it, but whatever the issue is
> that causes the random hangs was never fixed, so it got demoted again. It's probably
> relying on some weird corner case by pure chance. Given that it doesn't crash
> consistently, it's hard to isolate.
There's a part of me that wonders if it isn't just a buggy game that would watchdog reset on hardware at random, but since nobody has reported that either we just don't know.
It's one of those where sometimes you can play it for an hour or 3 with no hang, other times it will hang 30 seconds to 1 minute into the 1st stage repeatedly.
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