Asteroids (arcade), used to have a blue'ish tint to it, that was accurate to the arcade (and no, not confusing Asteroids with Asteroids Deluxe). It was a slight tint, but you could tell. However, the blue tint no longer appears to be there & I was wondering why. Or if there's a way to get it back.
Windows 11 64 bit OS
Intel Core i7-10700
Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 6GB
32GB DDR4 RAM
> Hello, > > Asteroids (arcade), used to have a blue'ish tint to it, that was accurate to the > arcade (and no, not confusing Asteroids with Asteroids Deluxe).
I used to own an Asteroids upright. Although it appears that way in photographs - including a few of my own - there was definitely no blue-ish tint to the real thing.
The Electrohome G05 is very much a black and white monitor and there is no overlay on the screen to tint the color, you can look this up in the parts list of the original Asteroids documentation, it isn't hard to find.
I suppose you could fabricate a blue overlay.png and use it with mame if you want Asteroids to have a blue tint.
I'm chalking this up to the Mandela Effect! lol I could have sworn it used to have a blue'ish tint. I remember reading about it & the artwork had a blue'ish tint to it also. It was subtle...not as obvious as Asteroids Deluxe. Now I can't find it anywhere. Even when downloading the old artwork & using a older version of MAME. Crazy! Anyway, thanks for your response!
If I were to try to setup a blue tint for the game, how would I go about it? I know absolutely nothing about setting up artwork & wonder if it'd be more complicated than it's worth
Edited by Envisaged0ne (10/28/19 03:56 AM)
Windows 11 64 bit OS
Intel Core i7-10700
Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 6GB
32GB DDR4 RAM
>> Asteroids (arcade), used to have a blue'ish tint to it, that was accurate to the arcade
>I used to own an Asteroids upright. Although it appears that way in photographs - including >a few of my own - there was definitely no blue-ish tint to the real thing. The Electrohome >G05 is very much a black and white monitor
Yep. Definitely a non-color vector monitor when I played the arcade cab. If the monitor discharged some faint glow, I'd probably stand far away from that stand up cab and go play some other coinop game instead.
>and there is no overlay on the screen to tint the color, you can look this up in the >parts list of the original Asteroids documentation, it isn't hard to find. I suppose you >could fabricate a blue overlay.png and use it with mame if you want Asteroids to have a >blue tint.
In a tribute to late Bum Phillips, a well known coach of former Houston Oilers franchise and New Orleans Saints, where some of the franchise teams' fans would hold up signs with "Loves Ya Bum" at some of the NFL football games during late 1970s through mid 1980s
>I'm chalking this up to the Mandela Effect! lol I could have sworn it used to have a >blue'ish tint. I remember reading about it & the artwork had a blue'ish tint to it also. >It was subtle..
Memories fade or get fuzzy as time progresses. I had thought Gremlin's Frogs 'jump' sound had made some long lasting sound effect when player has frog jumping, but I mis-remembered that sound effect when last time I had played the the upright arcade cab in 1980 and never saw nor played Frogs again until I discovered MAME in mid 2000 and then purchased a Frogs manual in late 2001 to see what sound effects were generated from the analog (discrete) audio pcb. An absence of not playing a "game/song/video" or whatever along with two decades going by can make memorized details become fuzzy over time.
Another former MW poster Pete/kazzy used to mistakenly thought Sega/Gremlin Borderline used a tank when it was actually a jeep that was used in that game. I used to joke/kid Pete about that back in the days.
>If I were to try to setup a blue tint for the game, how would I go about it? I know >absolutely nothing about setting up artwork & wonder if it'd be more complicated than >it's worth
two .lay files for reference to work with: Depthcharge because of light blue overlay piece and Barrier because it also uses an overlay, but is a vector monitor since Barrier was marketed by Cinematronics/Vectorbeam.
And then will have to make changes with Asteroid.cpp source file in order to recognize of doctored overlay piece.
Will need to do several trial and error experiments with single driver compile build, if that is possible to do with multiple files being involved and also getting help on Mr Dos artwork forum for any other tips.
Another shortcut instead of creating an overlay is to simply use the RGB params in the screen section of the Asteroids layout file:
screen index="0" bounds x="752" y="660" width="2512" height="1884" color red = "0.1" green = "0.6" blue = "1.0" screen
I just used these numbers as an example, but you can tweak them to get the right tint of blue you need. If you need white vectors with a blue glow, this won't work.
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I have officially retired from sucking at everything I do. Life is much easier now.
It's pretty simple. The internal layout for seawolf has an overlay that gives the entire screen a blue/cyan cast. Just ignore the periscope lamps, only the stuff used for the "Color Overlay" view would be needed. You can adjust the colour to taste.
> It's pretty simple. The internal layout for seawolf has an overlay that gives the > entire screen a blue/cyan cast. Just ignore the periscope lamps, only the stuff used > for the "Color Overlay" view would be needed. You can adjust the colour to taste.
You dont need a overlay or .lay file at all. Enable HLSL and push red_ratio, green_ratio in .ini file and lower blu_ratio just a little. You can also use the sliders menu in options while in game, by changing "Signal Exponent" red, green and blue values accordingly.
I recommend MAME 0.179 for vector games. It is the last version where vector games looked really good, as you can make the points of a vector "visible" and adjustable. A very remarkable characteristic of a vector game.
I played a bootleg version once with *terrible* controls (it required a lot of force to press the buttons) and that version had a blue tint. As a *huge* Asteroids fan, it stuck out.
I edited the artwork's lay file as Nightvoice suggested & used these values....
color red = "0.6" green = "1.0" blue = "1.0"
That gave the game the slight blue'ish tint that I remember. Again, I could have sworn that's how it used to look. I remember playing the game & noticing that it wasn't a straight black & white game. That it had that tint to it. So if anyone wants to see it as I remember, you can adjust the lay file. Maybe you'll even like it better that way
Windows 11 64 bit OS
Intel Core i7-10700
Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 6GB
32GB DDR4 RAM
You probably played it on a machine with an aging monitor, or that wasn't set up properly. If the electron beam isn't within spec, it won't excite all the phosphor components and you'll get a colour cast. You can see this on classic 9" Macs - after you switch them on, the initial screen image will look blue/grey until the analog circuitry and monitor warm up and it turns white. If the arcade monitor wasn't adjusted properly, it could've looked a bit blue the whole time.
Some months ago chroma modes were introduced to HLSL. At the time they recommended mode 1 for Asteroids which produced the bluish tint. You can make sure this is in your asteroid.ini.
No, it was when Asteroids first came out so wasn't aging. I was completely addicted and these machines were everywhere. I sought them out wherever I could. It certainly had blue vectors because I remember thinking "that's weird". Perhaps they shoved an overlay on it - who knows. But blue it was!
That probably was it! I remembered it having the blue tint in MAME, so that explains it...thank you!!! Now I don't feel like I'm crazy lol. If you look at the color values I set in the LAY file for the artwork, that I posted in a previous post, it almost exactly matches the colors that chroma produces. I remembered it pretty spot on lol
I think the color values I used in the overlay pretty closely matches what you see in the video & what I remember MAME displaying in the past. I posted the color values I used in a previous post
>Some months ago chroma modes were introduced to HLSL. At the time they recommended mode 1 >for Asteroids which produced the bluish tint. You can make sure this is in your >asteroid.ini.
That is probably an easier solution compared to .lay artwork file manipulation for some users.
*With wanted Asteroids blue tint output now resolved, former NFL coach late Bum Phillips can now spit his chewing tobacco out and walk away with another satisfying victory and head for home.*
Better and easier provided you understand chroma and if you've never had an experience where upgrading MAME initialized your .ini files for no explicable reason. Nevertheless, I surrender and am once again proven a peerless idiot. Just fuck me completely. Cheers.
> Better and easier provided you understand chroma and if you've never had an > experience where upgrading MAME initialized your .ini files for no explicable reason. > Nevertheless, I surrender and am once again proven a peerless idiot. Just fuck me > completely. Cheers.
Never give up. Never surrender.
Look... I really, REALLY like that HLSL, BGFX, and these other settings are included in MAME now, to give people the option of making their screen look more like the real arcade monitor.
But... I understand fuck all of how any of it works, and I consider myself fairly intelligent here.
Every so often, people come on the messageboard here and post settings of how they have certain games setup, best settings for vector games, best for horizontal/vertical, etc. But then those posts get washed away later, and I can never find them when I actually have a chance later to sit and play around with the settings. There is documentation on MAMEDev.org that explains each setting. Some of them I understand. Some of them, I tilt my head sideways and go "huh?"
And the new chroma effect noted above... first I heard about it... I must have missed that when reading about new updates. Or at least I thought. Looks like it was added in 0.203?
But the news post for 0.203 doesn't mention anything about that. After searching, MAMEInfo for 0.203 mentions that there are new settings in the INI file that mention chroma... but nothing about what it does.
This thread right here is the very first post, going back to November 2018, that even explains that it exists, and what it does.
My original suggestion was going to be the exact advice you offered, so no knocking yourself down over that.
Hey Nightvoice, I found your solution of adding the color settings to the lay file to be extremely easy & that's how I have it setup. If I want to change the tint, I think it'll be a lot easier just to adjust the color settings within the lay file. Maybe others prefer the chroma, but I prefer your method
I actually used the color settings you showed me for Asteroids Deluxe. I think it looks better with the darker blue & I think it looks more arcade accurate
> True. You can even watch videos of gameplay where it looks like it has the blue'ish > tint. > > Here is one as an example... > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w60sfReTsRA&t=74s > > I think the color values I used in the overlay pretty closely matches what you see in > the video & what I remember MAME displaying in the past. I posted the color values I > used in a previous post
That is the culprit with such videos. The video is not even sharp, very blurry and recorded without "white balance" and the result is this garbage video, on top youtube "crisp" codec specs. People watch this and think, yeah that is how the old classic looked like. No, it did not look like that, it is just tons of artefacts on a mostly mediocre video. If any, then it is exactly how Vas Crabb already wrote: "If the electron beam isn't within spec, it won't excite all the phosphor components and you'll get a colour cast." Google colour cast. Asteroids is a black&white vector game, from where should the blue come? And there was officialy no tinting overlay for it. So only god knows, what you guys remember here .
> Hey Nightvoice, I found your solution of adding the color settings to the lay file to > be extremely easy & that's how I have it setup. If I want to change the tint, I think > it'll be a lot easier just to adjust the color settings within the lay file. Maybe > others prefer the chroma, but I prefer your method > > I actually used the color settings you showed me for Asteroids Deluxe. I think it > looks better with the darker blue & I think it looks more arcade accurate
How can this be better and easier? That is ridiculous and funny. HLSL, BGFX all offer REALTIME controls over colours and you really want to make us believe that this .lay file method is better? LMAO. People are strange.
> > Better and easier provided you understand chroma and if you've never had an > > experience where upgrading MAME initialized your .ini files for no explicable > reason. > > Nevertheless, I surrender and am once again proven a peerless idiot. Just fuck me > > completely. Cheers. > > > Never give up. Never surrender. > > Look... I really, REALLY like that HLSL, BGFX, and these other settings are included > in MAME now, to give people the option of making their screen look more like the real > arcade monitor. > > But... I understand fuck all of how any of it works, and I consider myself fairly > intelligent here. > > Every so often, people come on the messageboard here and post settings of how they > have certain games setup, best settings for vector games, best for > horizontal/vertical, etc. But then those posts get washed away later, and I can never > find them when I actually have a chance later to sit and play around with the > settings. There is documentation on MAMEDev.org that explains each setting. Some of > them I understand. Some of them, I tilt my head sideways and go "huh?" > > And the new chroma effect noted above... first I heard about it... I must have missed > that when reading about new updates. Or at least I thought. Looks like it was added > in 0.203? > > But the news post for 0.203 doesn't mention anything about that. After searching, > MAMEInfo for 0.203 mentions that there are new settings in the INI file that mention > chroma... but nothing about what it does. > > This thread right here is the very first post, going back to November 2018, that even > explains that it exists, and what it does. > > My original suggestion was going to be the exact advice you offered, so no knocking > yourself down over that.
I am with you and fully understand that. The shader systems are a straight downhill progress (especially for HLSL) since Jezze left. Everything after regarding HLSL, was half-hearted, loveless contributions by anikom. I do not even know, who gave green light for this. All contributions just destroyed the hard, 2-years work of Jezze. What is left, are useless parameters, with ridiculous value scaling, where no user knows what they are actually good for. I can see some sense, if you want HDR support for the future, but thats it.
I do not know why we have something that is not even close to finish status, that just throws even more terms on a user that barely understand any of the parameters before that.
Also MAME devs decision to go for BGFX proofs to be a bad one. It looked promising, but in the end it is just that. I understand that the devs wanted something that works for all platforms, but IMHO it was not needed, because there was GLSL for the other plattforms and the vast majority use MAME on windows.
Today nobody even knows, how to properly compile bgfx shaders and useful shader contributions are lost in the dust (of this forum). I would recommend, a own category and locked topic with working shader contributions in this forum, just to prevent those rare cases. BGFX causes only trouble and is so much slower than HLSL till today.
If you are really interested in shaders, start with the easy "crt-geom" shader of BGFX. It is a nearly one-click solution that works on nearly every raster game. Once you understand this, you can try the HLSL variant. This is not that hard .
It's been verified that MAME used to have the blue'ish tint & that's where I remember it from. It's also been posted that people remember the tint in the actual arcade. This could be debated to death, but ultimately we go by what we remember. I personally think adjusting the colors in the lay file was extremely easy & Nightvoice deserves some respect for coming up with that option. Not everyone agrees on what is easiest. I've often have felt one way was easier than someone else's preference. But we should be respectful & not diss someone just cause you disagree with there opinions or suggestions
> > > Better and easier provided you understand chroma and if you've never had an > > > experience where upgrading MAME initialized your .ini files for no explicable > > reason. > > > Nevertheless, I surrender and am once again proven a peerless idiot. Just fuck me > > > completely. Cheers. > > > > > > Never give up. Never surrender. > > > > Look... I really, REALLY like that HLSL, BGFX, and these other settings are > included > > in MAME now, to give people the option of making their screen look more like the > real > > arcade monitor. > > > > But... I understand fuck all of how any of it works, and I consider myself fairly > > intelligent here. > > > > Every so often, people come on the messageboard here and post settings of how they > > have certain games setup, best settings for vector games, best for > > horizontal/vertical, etc. But then those posts get washed away later, and I can > never > > find them when I actually have a chance later to sit and play around with the > > settings. There is documentation on MAMEDev.org that explains each setting. Some of > > them I understand. Some of them, I tilt my head sideways and go "huh?" > > > > And the new chroma effect noted above... first I heard about it... I must have > missed > > that when reading about new updates. Or at least I thought. Looks like it was added > > in 0.203? > > > > But the news post for 0.203 doesn't mention anything about that. After searching, > > MAMEInfo for 0.203 mentions that there are new settings in the INI file that > mention > > chroma... but nothing about what it does. > > > > This thread right here is the very first post, going back to November 2018, that > even > > explains that it exists, and what it does. > > > > My original suggestion was going to be the exact advice you offered, so no knocking > > yourself down over that. > > I am with you and fully understand that. The shader systems are a straight downhill > progress (especially for HLSL) since Jezze left. Everything after regarding HLSL, was > half-hearted, loveless contributions by anikom. I do not even know, who gave green > light for this. All contributions just destroyed the hard, 2-years work of Jezze. > What is left, are useless parameters, with ridiculous value scaling, where no user > knows what they are actually good for. I can see some sense, if you want HDR support > for the future, but thats it. > > I do not know why we have something that is not even close to finish status, that > just throws even more terms on a user that barely understand any of the parameters > before that. > > Also MAME devs decision to go for BGFX proofs to be a bad one. It looked promising, > but in the end it is just that. I understand that the devs wanted something that > works for all platforms, but IMHO it was not needed, because there was GLSL for the > other plattforms and the vast majority use MAME on windows. > > Today nobody even knows, how to properly compile bgfx shaders and useful shader > contributions are lost in the dust (of this forum). I would recommend, a own category > and locked topic with working shader contributions in this forum, just to prevent > those rare cases. BGFX causes only trouble and is so much slower than HLSL till > today. > > If you are really interested in shaders, start with the easy "crt-geom" shader of > BGFX. It is a nearly one-click solution that works on nearly every raster game. Once > you understand this, you can try the HLSL variant. This is not that hard .
I don't know about the downhill progress part... I was just saying that understanding how the whole thing works isn't as straight-forward as I thought it would be. It's not something that just "works out of the box," it needs some tinkering, and I haven't had any tinkering time to figure it out just yet.
P.S. - Please check PMs for something we've been waiting on for awhile.
>Better and easier provided you understand chroma and if you've never had an experience >where upgrading MAME initialized your .ini files for no explicable reason.
It depends upon user that is working with MAME. Some probably find working with .lay files easier while others might find johniv's method easier.
I rephrased/edited my post with: "That is probably an easier solution compared to .lay artwork file manipulation for some users."
BAck in the day, there were a couple of Asteroids machines in my area, where the operators used the overlay from Star Castle on an Asteroids machine to give it a 'color' appearance . I have recreated it in Mame to relive my childhood.
> Some months ago chroma modes were introduced to HLSL. At the time they recommended > mode 1 for Asteroids which produced the bluish tint. You can make sure this is in > your asteroid.ini. > > chroma_mode 1 > chroma_a 0.265,0.285 > chroma_conversion_gain 0.30,0.59,0.11 > chroma_y_gain 1.0,0.0,0.0
I want to get rid of this blue tint for B & W vector games. I set chroma_mode to 0 but the tint is still there. What other change needs to be done?
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