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GDC Talk on Commercial Emulation, Mame, Preservation
#381922 - 04/12/19 12:49 AM
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Hey everyone!
I am usually a passive user of this site. But I just finished watching this GDC talk and had to post it here. Great talk and he references MAME and thanks the MAME project (about 36:40 onwards but the talk is worth watching from the beginning). From 45:00 onwards he also mentions that they rediscovered one of the classics by SNK (Micon Kit Series) and found one of likely only 6 boards. He seems to be very friendly towards MAME and the stuff he an his team do looks very nice.
From the video description:
"It's Still Emulation: Saving Video Game History Before It's
Too Late
In this 2019 GDC talk, Digital Eclipse producer Frank Cifaldi gives practical advice to those keeping old games in print, goes over the current state of video game preservation, and tells you how you can help to make sure video game history never disappears, no matter what your profession is."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp-DRU24J18
Edited by roloway (04/12/19 04:55 PM)
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MAME bugs
[Re: roloway]
#381926 - 04/12/19 04:24 AM
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At 39:37 he puts up a slide of emulation bugs in MAME and says he should have probably reported them.
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Tafoid |
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: MAME bugs
[Re: mike20599]
#381927 - 04/12/19 04:33 AM
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> At 39:37 he puts up a slide of emulation bugs in MAME and says he should have
> probably reported them.
They are being looked at and information is being gathered for those mentioned. No need to be reported.
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Re: MAME bugs
[Re: Tafoid]
#381929 - 04/12/19 06:52 AM
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Re: MAME bugs
[Re: Robbbert]
#381939 - 04/12/19 11:27 PM
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Maybe if someone from the MAME team contacted him, he could provide more info on the Micon Series. In the talk he says they found a working one (see the video from 46:05 onward) in the archives of an arcade board rental company in Japan.
https://mamedev.emulab.it/undumped/index.php?title=Micon_Block
He even said that they almost included a dump of the board in the SNK collection but did not due to it being to late for the release. He says "at least we know where one [of the boards] is. Maybe if more people buy the game [I guess he means the SNK legacy collection] we can do a patch or something...".
Edited by roloway (04/12/19 11:39 PM)
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: MAME bugs
[Re: roloway]
#381940 - 04/13/19 12:24 AM
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https://mamedev.emulab.it/undumped/index.php?title=Micon_Block
>Maybe if someone from the MAME team contacted him, he could provide more info on the Micon
>Series. In the talk he says they found a working one (see the video from 46:05 onward) in
>the archives of an arcade board rental company in Japan. He even said that they almost
>included a dump of the board in the SNK collection but did not due to it being to late for
>the release. He says "at least we know where one [of the boards] is. Maybe if more people
>buy the game [I guess he means the SNK legacy collection] we can do a patch or
>something...".
The better odds of the items being documented/supported in MAME are if contributors like ShouTime or Andy Welburn come across that stuff (pcbs) since they have contacts and can find the items compared to most folks.
I liked the Digital Eclipse (IBM/Windows version) products that I purchased back in late 1990s, but I also recall visiting Digital Eclipse web site back then in late 1990s and was reading a sizeable list of Atari or Midway arcade games and reasons why they couldn't be supported. Since Digital Eclipse market was for 1980s era or newer games back then, that left out the entire 1970s games and that was the era during my arcade years. Main reason I like non-commercial/user contributions emulation is it involves users dedicated to making sure an emulated item (whatever it may be) is emulated properly....even if it takes a while for emulation to be fully complete.
I don't picture Digital Eclipse adding support for another Breakout or Super Breakout clone even if it was made by SNK. If Digital Eclipse were to add SNK's version, they better have staff that can trace all the circuits unless they decide to HLE simulate the game.
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Re: MAME bugs
[Re: roloway]
#381945 - 04/13/19 04:19 PM
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The MAME team is in contact with him on Twitter. Contrary to what people like you believe, we're not all a bunch of drooling morons who somehow YOLO'd our way into emulating thousands of machines.
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Re: MAME bugs
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#381946 - 04/13/19 05:33 PM
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Edited due to info on your condition (see Sky25 below): "...people like you..." followed by untrue accusations... I was pretty confused and insulted at first. But after getting to know about your condition this sounds to me like you had a bad day. No harm done. Let's talk some other day.
Edited by roloway (04/14/19 01:03 AM)
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Re: MAME bugs
[Re: roloway]
#381950 - 04/13/19 11:37 PM
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Don't take it by heart. He's really a nice and helpfull guy.
It's just that he suffers from a bipolar disorder.
Just ignore those comments like I do and reply only if you see tha he's in a good mood.
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Re: MAME bugs
[Re: Sky25]
#381951 - 04/13/19 11:49 PM
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Thanks for the info. Now I understand better.
Edited by roloway (04/14/19 01:10 AM)
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Re: MAME bugs
[Re: Sky25]
#381969 - 04/15/19 03:54 PM
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> Don't take it by heart. He's really a nice and helpfull guy.
> It's just that he suffers from a bipolar disorder.
> Just ignore those comments like I do and reply only if you see tha he's in a good
> mood.
No excuses people with manic depression as they used to call it should just take their meds rather than take out their frustrations around feeling shitty on any given day out on everyone else.
No one should have to walk on eggshells around here in the hope of not setting someone
clearly behaving in an unacceptable manor off on one.
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Arcade Addict
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Re: MAME bugs
[Re: Sky25]
#381981 - 04/15/19 08:26 PM
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> Don't take it by heart. He's really a nice and helpfull guy.
> It's just that he suffers from a bipolar disorder.
> Just ignore those comments like I do and reply only if you see tha he's in a good
> mood.
Truth be told, I've been going through a ton of turmoil in my personal life over the past month and a half. Normally I would be able to brook it in stride, but at the same time I've been trying to taper down (and, about a month ago, went cold turkey) from the medication I've been on for literally the past 20 years, because I'm tired of being an overweight shit, and both medications tend to make it difficult to lose weight.
As you can clearly see, it's not been going at all well.
Pity party aside, none of that excuses my behavior in the least, and as of tonight I'm going back on my medication. I'll just have to redouble my efforts to lose weight, because at the end of the day, I'm still responsible for the calories I consume.
I apologize for being a shitty person, and will do my level best to pull the general tenor of my responses upward, rather than going for the churlish, but easy, reply.
Having said that, here's what I should have said to roloway, were I thinking clearly at the time:
Although the MAME team's presence on Twitter leaves much to be desired, a few of us do have contact with Frank! He's a solid dude, and happy to help out however he can. He definitely cares a great deal about preserving digital history, nobody can deny that. That said, his ability to help is often limited, not because he doesn't want to help, but because he legally can't. At the end of the day, Digital Eclipse - and by extension, Frank himself - is in the business of making commercial emulators at the behest of IP-holders. While they're rarely privy to any more insider info than the MAME team itself - because quite often these IP-holders don't even have any relevant information to give - it also means that any of their own reverse-engineering efforts are going to be covered by a non-disclosure agreement (NDA). NDAs are just a way of life when it comes to software development - particularly game development - and while the morality of such agreements against the backdrop of digital preservation can be debated all day, Frank ultimately has to do right by his company first and foremost.
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Re: MAME bugs
[Re: gamez fan]
#381982 - 04/15/19 08:29 PM
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> No excuses people with manic depression as they used to call it should just take
> their meds rather than take out their frustrations around feeling shitty on any given
> day out on everyone else.
>
> No one should have to walk on eggshells around here in the hope of not setting
> someone
> clearly behaving in an unacceptable manor off on one.
You're 100% right, and it's why as of tonight I'm going back on my meds. For a more detailed explanation, feel free to refer to my more extensive reply to Sky25.
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Re: MAME bugs
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#381988 - 04/15/19 11:25 PM
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> You're 100% right, and it's why as of tonight I'm going back on my meds. For a more
> detailed explanation, feel free to refer to my more extensive reply to Sky25.
My cousin had the same condition so i understand totally,sometimes she needed a hug
or two whereas sometimes a kick up the ass metaphorically speaking would be what was
required hence my earlier comments.
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Arcade Addict
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: MAME bugs
[Re: roloway]
#382159 - 04/27/19 02:05 AM
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> Edited due to info on your condition (see Sky25 below): "...people like you..."
> followed by untrue accusations... I was pretty confused and insulted at first. But
> after getting to know about your condition this sounds to me like you had a bad day.
> No harm done. Let's talk some other day.
Regardless, you actually acted as if MAMEdev, knowing about Frank and his talk, wouldn't have gone through it frame by frame like the gorram Zapruder film. Hell, you acted as if some MAMEdevs who are professionals in the industry weren't sitting in the gorram *audience* for Frank's talk.
That indicates that you indeed think we're all dumb and that we accidentally emulated 50,000 games or so (counting the software lists).
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