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DU: Karate Champs
#381515 - 03/13/19 10:02 PM
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Don Thibert and RColtrane sent us dumps of 2 previously undumped Karate Champ board sets. The first is a "Player Vs Player" version of the game that shows alternate dialog with "MY HERO DESERVES THE FAIR" instead of "My Hero", thought to be an early version of the game. The second board set displays the dialog balloon in red with a boat below it. This is a version which likely came inbetween the early one mentioned above and the final "My Hero" version.
Osso bought Mosaic for decapping and caius took some measurements on it
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: Smitdogg]
#381516 - 03/13/19 10:04 PM
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> Don Thibert and RColtrane sent us dumps of 2 previously undumped Karate Champ board
> sets. The first is a "Player Vs Player" version of the game that shows alternate
> dialog with "MY HERO DESERVES THE FAIR" instead of "My Hero", thought to be an early
> version of the game. The second board set displays the dialog balloon in red with a
> boat below it. This is a version which likely came inbetween the early one mentioned
> above and the final "My Hero" version.
>
>
for 'MY HERO DESERVES THE FAIR' I'm more inclined to think bootleg / hack of the Japanese version intended for a different market. We've seen a number of games with that kind of ugly 'mspaint' scribble art (West Story for example)
as for the other, not sure.
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| simzy |
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: Haze]
#381519 - 03/13/19 10:39 PM
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I just don't understand how someone even noticed that and then aquired two different versions. I'm assuming a lot of dumps are only known of by hardcore fans, and I'm implying the guys who dumped these must be hardcore Karate Champ fans.
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| Foxhack |
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Furry guy
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: Smitdogg]
#381520 - 03/13/19 10:41 PM
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> Don Thibert and RColtrane sent us dumps of 2 previously undumped Karate Champ board
> sets. The first is a "Player Vs Player" version of the game that shows alternate
> dialog with "MY HERO DESERVES THE FAIR" instead of "My Hero", thought to be an early
> version of the game. The second board set displays the dialog balloon in red with a
> boat below it. This is a version which likely came inbetween the early one mentioned
> above and the final "My Hero" version.
Is it just the photo, or do both girls in each different version have different skirt and blouse colors?
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Tafoid |
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: simzy]
#381521 - 03/13/19 11:14 PM
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> I just don't understand how someone even noticed that and then aquired two different
> versions. I'm assuming a lot of dumps are only known of by hardcore fans, and I'm
> implying the guys who dumped these must be hardcore Karate Champ fans.
There is always that slim chance that these are created after the fact and sadly it would be hard to determine if that took place. Therefore, we'd have to assume everything is legit.
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: Tafoid]
#381525 - 03/14/19 02:32 AM
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RColtrane searched for this version for years after remembering playing it as a kid
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: DU: Karate Champs *edited*
[Re: Smitdogg]
#381530 - 03/14/19 03:02 PM
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>RColtrane searched for this version for years after remembering playing it as a kid
Prior posts (below). Congrats to him that he got his wish and it is supported in MAME
==
Re: MAME in 2019
12/13/18
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
- find and dump the Karate Champ bootleg board with alternate dialog.
-
Re: A friend of mine is looking for an arcade game
03/27/17
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
an alternate version of Karate Champ that I've played around here back in the 80's, which had alternate dialogs coming from the little ladies after you win a fight.
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Karate Champ Player vs Player - bootleg emulation
07/14/16
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
I'm looking for a Karate Champ bootleg version which has an alternate dialog between the little girl and the white fighter after winning a match, where she says "My Hero Deserves The Fair" instead of the original "MY HERO" with a red heart.
-
Re: So what's the Holy Grail in terms of undumped game now...
08/22/14
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
- Karate Champ Vs bootleg
==
*raises hands in air like the lead actor Topol (farmer character) from movie version of Fiddler on the Roof to some superpower figure*
"Now....when will Moose get his break? Moose deserves better."
If nothing else, simply knowing the names of what the games were would be a nice start for Moose.
Re: So what's the Holy Grail .... "Lunar Lander on Steroids" and "Choplifter 1987"
08/28/14
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
People are probably sick to death of this ol' record .... but, I'm still searching for Lunar Lander on Steroids and Choplifter 1987.
--
http://www.pinballmuseum.com.au/?p=Archives-Magazines
I found this while searching and for those interested if Australia or New Zealand have coin op industry magazines like what Play Meter used to be printed in N. America market for the N. American region trade group Amusement & Music Operators Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Play_Meter
The two main trade magazines are Leisure Line and also Cash Box Australia
So those two magazines are probably best reference materials if searching for a specific region game.
http://www.pinballmuseum.com.au/?p=Archives-Magazines
We are particularly interested in Australian magazine publications such as "Leisure Line", "Cash Box Australia", "Australian Collector", and "Arcade & Flipper Pinball Revue". Copies of old arcade magazines are also now available to read when visiting the Australian Pinball Museum.
Address
22 Dimboola Road (Western Highway)
Nhill, Victoria, 3418
Australia.
(Adjacent Nhill Oasis Motel)
Edited by gregf (03/18/19 07:39 PM)
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: Smitdogg]
#381532 - 03/14/19 05:27 PM
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> RColtrane searched for this version for years after remembering playing it as a kid
Some people think about this game as a childhood memory. In my case, as I never played it or saw at Arcades, all I can think about is Bloodsport.
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: Smitdogg]
#381538 - 03/14/19 08:33 PM
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Nice find. One of the many games I played in the 80's.
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| Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: Smitdogg]
#381541 - 03/14/19 09:09 PM
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> RColtrane searched for this version for years after remembering playing it as a kid
Ohhhh, I was hoping that was what it was! Congrats, RColtrane!
- Stiletto
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: Stiletto]
#381543 - 03/14/19 09:41 PM
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So here is the story on these. They are not bootlegs but early production Karate Champ player vs player boards for the US market.
The US version of Karate Champ seem to start at about serial number 20,000. Boards with serial numbers between 20,000-21,000 have similar factory mods on them just like mine does.
If you take a look at the board the rom stickers all match the factory stickers. All the board chips, stickers, numbers, ect match other official boards. Not saying some one could fake it, but for such an old game that is highly unlikely.
After dumping the roms I ran rom checks.
This version has a mix of the "Karate Champ (US VS version, set 1)" and a few roms unique to "Taisen Karate Dou (Japan VS version)" along with 1 completely unique rom not found on romident.
The "Deserves the Fair" tiles are actually in the Taisen Karate Dou (Japan VS version) version of the game but not used. So they are not bootleged or hacked.
If I had to guess, from looking at the Taisen Karate Dou tile sets they knew they were going to do a US release because all the translations are there. The only difference is instead of "My Hero" as found in the later US sets it says "My Here Deserves the fair".
So for the early runs of the English version they edited the machine code to point to the US speaking bubbles and swapped to the English Audio roms.
After some of these went out they noticed "My hero deserves the fair" makes no sense so they updated the rom to just say "My Hero" like the version every one knows about and made a few other fixes.
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: linx310]
#381544 - 03/14/19 09:53 PM
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> So here is the story on these. They are not bootlegs but early production Karate
> Champ player vs player boards for the US market.
>
> The US version of Karate Champ seem to start at about serial number 20,000. Boards
> with serial numbers between 20,000-21,000 have similar factory mods on them just like
> mine does.
>
> If you take a look at the board the rom stickers all match the factory stickers. All
> the board chips, stickers, numbers, ect match other official boards. Not saying some
> one could fake it, but for such an old game that is highly unlikely.
>
> After dumping the roms I ran rom checks.
>
> This version has a mix of the "Karate Champ (US VS version, set 1)" and a few roms
> unique to "Taisen Karate Dou (Japan VS version)" along with 1 completely unique rom
> not found on romident.
>
> The "Deserves the Fair" tiles are actually in the Taisen Karate Dou (Japan VS
> version) version of the game but not used. So they are not bootleged or hacked.
>
> If I had to guess, from looking at the Taisen Karate Dou tile sets they knew they
> were going to do a US release because all the translations are there. The only
> difference is instead of "My Hero" as found in the later US sets it says "My Here
> Deserves the fair".
>
> So for the early runs of the English version they edited the machine code to point to
> the US speaking bubbles and swapped to the English Audio roms.
>
> After some of these went out they noticed "My hero deserves the fair" makes no sense
> so they updated the rom to just say "My Hero" like the version every one knows about
> and made a few other fixes.
Ah right, if the graphics are already in there, that's interesting. I thought they were bootleg because nobody had mentioned that text was already present in the Japanese ROM, and it would have been very unlike Data East to add that kind of scrawl later.
So it's probably more a case of these were placeholder graphics, that weren't actually meant to be used, but for some reason did end up being used on some earlier releases before being replaced.
We have seen that from Data East before, where clear placeholder graphics were replaced in later ROMs (Two Crude, Bad Dudes etc.)
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: Haze]
#381550 - 03/15/19 10:57 AM
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> We have seen that from Data East before, where clear placeholder graphics were
> replaced in later ROMs (Two Crude, Bad Dudes etc.)
You've just piqued my interest, which graphics do you mean?
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: ICEknight]
#381553 - 03/15/19 01:06 PM
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> > We have seen that from Data East before, where clear placeholder graphics were
> > replaced in later ROMs (Two Crude, Bad Dudes etc.)
>
> You've just piqued my interest, which graphics do you mean?
I seem to recall the US title screen graphics in the Japanese Bad Dudes have garbage all over them in certain revisions, presumably because either they weren't ready, or they didn't want people converting boards as easily. We actually thought these ROMs were bad dumps for a long time and dropped them from MAME, but they've turned up on multiple original boards.
Two Crude had some font symbols redrawn at one point, IIRC in that case it was Japanese symbols tho, so unless the US release was first, maybe just decided to redraw them. Not actually sure we have a set that uses the redrawn tiles.
So yeah, Data East did redraw tiles over time, unlike many other manufacturers where GFX Roms were set in stone after release.
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| Rotwang |
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Life is too short to be little...
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: Smitdogg]
#381661 - 03/21/19 05:13 AM
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Holy fucking shit, I actually remember playing this "My Hero Deserves The Fair" version in an arcade in Osoyoos, BC. Thank you, this has been bugging me for like 20 years.
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: linx310]
#381683 - 03/23/19 04:11 AM
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> After some of these went out they noticed "My hero deserves the fair" makes no sense
> so they updated the rom to just say "My Hero" like the version every one knows about
> and made a few other fixes.
Actually, the line does make sense in old/archaic English. It's an outdated expression in modern language.
"Fair" when used as a noun can mean a beautiful woman.
"My hero deserves a beautiful woman" is the meaning/better translation of the line in modern English.
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: Trebor]
#381685 - 03/23/19 01:08 PM
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> "Fair" when used as a noun can mean a beautiful woman.
No, for that you need to use it as an adjective - "fair maiden" or "fair lady", not just "fair".
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| Foxhack |
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Furry guy
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#381687 - 03/23/19 09:23 PM
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> > "Fair" when used as a noun can mean a beautiful woman.
>
> No, for that you need to use it as an adjective - "fair maiden" or "fair lady", not
> just "fair".
We're talking about a country that wouldn't know proper English if it was slapped with a dictionary. :P
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#381688 - 03/24/19 02:44 AM
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> > "Fair" when used as a noun can mean a beautiful woman.
>
> No, for that you need to use it as an adjective - "fair maiden" or "fair lady", not
> just "fair".
Adding "maiden" or "lady" came afterwards. This predates those expressions.
Standalone, it is being utilized as a noun, not as an adjective.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fair
*Scroll down to...
fair noun (2)
Definition of fair (Entry 5 of 5)
3. archaic: Woman
especially: Sweetheart
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fair
*Scroll down to...
NOUN
archaic
A beautiful woman.
Example provided: "pursuing his fair in a solitary street".
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Re: DU: Karate Champs
[Re: Smitdogg]
#381735 - 03/26/19 10:26 PM
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The "boat and orange thing" look like a really crude quick fix made as soon as they were told that the text didn't make any sense in that century.
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