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Arcade1Up Hacked, using usb soldered to board, running off course MAME
#380003 - 12/12/18 12:07 PM
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They also have roms which are not stated on the box. Free Games, or easter eggs ? Either way, hope MAME gets something from these OFFICIALLY released products. And a few boards which arnt emulated can be purchased.
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Re: Arcade1Up Hacked, using usb soldered to board, running off course MAME
[Re: Daveyuk]
#380004 - 12/12/18 12:22 PM
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> They also have roms which are not stated on the box. Free Games, or easter eggs ?
Copyright infringement.
> Either way, hope MAME gets something from these OFFICIALLY released products. And a
> few boards which arnt emulated can be purchased.
That stands about as much a chance as rainbows and sunshine flying from my asshole.
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running of course MAME (illegally)
[Re: Daveyuk]
#380006 - 12/12/18 01:05 PM
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> They also have roms which are not stated on the box. Free Games, or easter eggs ?
> Either way, hope MAME gets something from these OFFICIALLY released products. And a
> few boards which arnt emulated can be purchased.
As stated elsewhere it's MAME 0.139u1 based
MAME 0.139u1 can't be licensed for commercial use, as it predates the GPL changes over at 0.172. The old license includes a non-commercial use clause (and is problematic in various other ways for this kind of use too)
So once again, even after we've made it entirely possible for companies to build legal solutions based on MAME they decide that they the best thing to do is shit on the team from a great height and use a version they're not allowed to use because they either don't want to make the extra little effort to port such a version, or maybe spend a tiny bit more on hardware if it needs something other than the lowest end SoC from China.
I gave up trying to defend our position elsewhere, because was just being told that MAME has no rights because MAME is just emulating games made by other people etc. which is a ridiculous argument. Beyond that, they just argue that because the only 'license' page on mamedev.org states GPL it means they can apply that to every version that's available for download, even when it clearly doesn't mean that, and can't mean that. You have to follow whatever license is included in each case, the front pages are of course for the current versions.
at least outside of the arcade scene companies can get their licensing right, look at Sony with the Playstation Classic, say what you want about the product for performance / effort / hardware choice reasons (it isn't good) but at least they picked an emulator they could license (as it was GPL) and are even providing the full source + modifications as required by the GPL; just shows you what little effort is actually required to follow the rules.
as I said elsewhere too, I'm glad MAME is spreading its wings past the arcade scene, because the arcade scene, especially the way they abuse MAME like this, and continually belittle any actual recent achievements, or in this case the make out that the effort that went into relicensing everything properly etc. was pointless as MAME 'has no rights' is just plain toxic.
and yes, as Moogly states, the 'bonus ROMs' are no doubt copyright infringement too.
In other words, these products shouldn't even be on the shelves, at least not the ones using MAME, or the ones with 'extra' ROMs.
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Re: running of course MAME (illegally)
[Re: Haze]
#380019 - 12/13/18 03:26 AM
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It is semi interesting they would use such an old version, from 2010? Especially for the games they picked. They have not regressed pretty much at all in that time. And like you keep saying all the little fixes would be worth it. It also look like the linux distro they are using is fairly old too being a 3.4.43 kernel (2013?).
How long was this thing kicking around? Is it derived from some other system and 'made sorta legal'? They are also using a second emulator. Which is also semi interesting as most of the games they picked have been in MAME for a long time and decent 'playable' quality? Which suggests 2 different groups working on it.
The more you look at it the more you go 'whah huh why...?'
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 9716
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Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
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Re: running of course MAME (illegally)
[Re: lharms]
#380031 - 12/13/18 08:29 PM
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> It is semi interesting they would use such an old version, from 2010?
0.139 is the version MAME4Droid NG is based on. One suspects that's most of their motivation.
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Re: Arcade1Up Hacked, using usb soldered to board, running off course MAME
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#380035 - 12/13/18 11:15 PM
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As i thought shameful 
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Re: running of course MAME (illegally)
[Re: R. Belmont]
#380039 - 12/14/18 11:59 AM
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I am surprised someone hasn't ported a more modern MAME to Android and Raspberry PI and these other mobile devices.
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Re: running of course MAME (illegally)
[Re: jonwil]
#380040 - 12/14/18 12:41 PM
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> I am surprised someone hasn't ported a more modern MAME to Android and Raspberry PI
> and these other mobile devices.
I'm surprised at your surprise. People will do literally anything in order to avoid having to give back to the community.
If people spent even remotely as much effort on throwing MAME against a performance profiler and sorting out the low-hanging fruit as they've spent making about fifty thousand different ports of old-ass versions of MAME to anemic devices, we'd already be in a position where modern MAME runs fine on those devices.
But since that's just too much effort to expect of anyone in order to get that sweet, sweet Internet karma, I'm getting a Pi 3B+ for Christmas and doing it my own fucking self.
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Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Reged: 03/07/04
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Posts: 6472
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Re: running of course MAME (illegally)
[Re: jonwil]
#380049 - 12/14/18 09:10 PM
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> I am surprised someone hasn't ported a more modern MAME to Android and Raspberry PI
> and these other mobile devices.
Android, no one's distributing builds of modern MAME that I've yet seen. Though we have accepted various patches to allow MAME to build for Android, so someone out there must be trying to build and run current MAME on Android.
Raspberry Pi, I will point you to ChoccyHobNob's thankless job of building current MAME for Raspberry Pi (as well as MacOS): https://choccyhobnob.com/mame/
It's really not so much whether they can be built for those platforms (they can) but whether additional optimizations can be made, such as hardware accelerated (2D) graphics as well as adding dynamic recompilation, as Moogly makes reference too.
ChoccyHobNob did some benches about a year or so ago so you can see the scope of the problem: https://choccyhobnob.com/mame/benchmarks-for-mame-on-raspberry-pi/
[EDIT] The other thing we should be mindful of is that a lot of times with these iMAME4ALL ports, whether based on 0.139u1 or something back in the 0.30's, is that the authors have often bundled in their own UIs that are mobile friendly. For us to ever give mobile ports a serious go, we'd need to attempt to accomplish that as well.
- Stiletto
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Re: running of course MAME (illegally)
[Re: Stiletto]
#380051 - 12/14/18 10:23 PM
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> ChoccyHobNob did some benches about a year or so ago so you can see the scope of the
> problem: https://choccyhobnob.com/mame/benchmarks-for-mame-on-raspberry-pi/
>
> - Stiletto
yeah, especially if you look at the 'real' column, which is what I was comparing benchmarks with for my old 3Ghz Core2 that I picked up almost 10 years ago.
The Core2 was 6 times faster than the Pi 'Real' values.
The values for the Pi mean it would have been considered grossly obsolete hardware even 10 years ago.
The old versions are fast basically because they use 8-bit modes (so half as much data being thrown around) and have things like dirty rectangles, and entirely separate codepaths for vertical / horizontal orientation (so they don't have to rotate a buffer after rendering) Also things like executing code directly from pointers rather than going through memory system; we've got cycle accurate cores doing realtime decryption in many cases now, a complete opposite. The hardware really seems so weak it does actually need these ugly 'solutions' that plagued MAME in the late 90s to perform at all.
The removal of this kind of thing is what has actually allowed the project to move forward as they got entirely in the way of progress, requiring people to code around MAME's limitations, and have knowledge of the games themselves and how they were most likely to do things. Having to manually managing palettes, dirty rectangles, patching code / memcpying data around just to handle the countless 'code execution across page boundary' cases etc. meant that the emulation in those old versions was never reliable.
I'm not honestly convinced you can get hardware that weak to do anything useful with modern versions without seriously compromising the project, there are better boards available for not much more which might be more realistic to optimize for.
Of course that applies to the really old versions, anything that's capable of running 0.139 at an acceptable rate in the first place is obviously already capable of doing a lot of those things without hacks and per-game knowledge.
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