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DU: Chrono Soldier
#378420 - 09/02/18 04:55 PM
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ShouTime dumped Chrono Soldier and noted the version currently in mame is either a different version or a hacked version.
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Re: DU: Chrono Soldier
[Re: Smitdogg]
#378436 - 09/03/18 04:30 PM
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> ShouTime dumped Chrono Soldier and noted the version currently in mame is either a
> different version or a hacked version.
My gut feeling on this is that the existing set might be a prototype, there are differences even in the graphic roms, which is unusual for Sega.
The worst part is that somebody decided to name the roms like the original, even added a comment about the original using an encrypted module. It should have been clear from that alone that the ones in MAME were from a different board and should not have been given those names. That type of anti-documentation is dangerous.
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Re: DU: Chrono Soldier
[Re: Haze]
#378440 - 09/03/18 10:33 PM
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> > ShouTime dumped Chrono Soldier and noted the version currently in mame is either a
> > different version or a hacked version.
>
> My gut feeling on this is that the existing set might be a prototype, there are
> differences even in the graphic roms, which is unusual for Sega.
>
> The worst part is that somebody decided to name the roms like the original, even
> added a comment about the original using an encrypted module. It should have been
> clear from that alone that the ones in MAME were from a different board and should
> not have been given those names. That type of anti-documentation is dangerous.
fwiw the new set has different level designs (in some cases longer, more complex) with less empty space at the points you fight the bosses.
it also has ending credits rather than just dumping you straight back to the title screen / score entry after area 8
last level of the old set looks really rushed too, with tiles that don't really fit properly, new set looks much better.
so yes, I think the set that's been in MAME all these years is a prototype
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Re: DU: Chrono Soldier
[Re: Haze]
#378454 - 09/05/18 03:32 AM
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according to this site:
https://edgeemu.net/details-27008.htm
Those rom names where in use as far back as 26-Jan-2015.
I added the comment about the encrypted module in 2018 only after seeing a picture of the PCB from ShouTime.
So I have no idea where those rom names would have originated from.
But once I saw the picture of an original board I felt it was important enough to include the comments about the 317-0040 module and about it being a possible hack.
This is one reason why we (the DU) have been pushing for pictures of actual PCBs and a 100% complete dump of all roms even if they match. Recently we have found several roms that where bad. as an example:
Multi Champ Deluxe: A full dump revealed that sound sample for v106 matched the parent set and not the dump that was labeled as specific to v106. So I did a byte compare and found 2 stuck bits.
Caius did a full redump of the Italian Cool Minigame Collection and that sound rom matched the parent. So again I compared the dumps, the old Italian sound sample of sections of the data 0x80 bytes long of 0xFF fill then 0x80 bytes of valid data switching back and forth.
With the recent River Patrol dump, rom 9.2t was specific to the encrypted set. ShouTime did a full dump and found his 9.2t matched the bootleg set. Comparing files show several stuck bits in the old "original" 9.2t rom.
Even you pointed out the stuck bits in Gallop Racer 2...
So we're trying to make sure dumps coming in are properly documented with rom names, OSC and any other information we can glean. Then we're trying to verify existing dumps when just the program roms change by trying to get all roms and make sure they are actually the same data. It's a struggle but we're doing the best we can and making more of an effort to be accurate when compared to the "old'n" days.
BrianT
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Re: DU: Chrono Soldier
[Re: BrianT]
#378456 - 09/05/18 06:23 AM
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> according to this site:
>
> https://edgeemu.net/details-27008.htm
>
> Those rom names where in use as far back as 26-Jan-2015.
>
> I added the comment about the encrypted module in 2018 only after seeing a picture of
> the PCB from ShouTime.
>
> So I have no idea where those rom names would have originated from.
>
> But once I saw the picture of an original board I felt it was important enough to
> include the comments about the 317-0040 module and about it being a possible hack.
>
>
> This is one reason why we (the DU) have been pushing for pictures of actual PCBs and
> a 100% complete dump of all roms even if they match. Recently we have found several
> roms that where bad. as an example:
>
> Multi Champ Deluxe: A full dump revealed that sound sample for v106 matched the
> parent set and not the dump that was labeled as specific to v106. So I did a byte
> compare and found 2 stuck bits.
>
> Caius did a full redump of the Italian Cool Minigame Collection and that sound rom
> matched the parent. So again I compared the dumps, the old Italian sound sample of
> sections of the data 0x80 bytes long of 0xFF fill then 0x80 bytes of valid data
> switching back and forth.
>
> With the recent River Patrol dump, rom 9.2t was specific to the encrypted set.
> ShouTime did a full dump and found his 9.2t matched the bootleg set. Comparing files
> show several stuck bits in the old "original" 9.2t rom.
>
> Even you pointed out the stuck bits in Gallop Racer 2...
>
> So we're trying to make sure dumps coming in are properly documented with rom names,
> OSC and any other information we can glean. Then we're trying to verify existing
> dumps when just the program roms change by trying to get all roms and make sure they
> are actually the same data. It's a struggle but we're doing the best we can and
> making more of an effort to be accurate when compared to the "old'n" days.
>
> BrianT
there does still seem to be a problem with finding good quality (parts readable) pictures even for a lot of current dumps even so, which is kinda frustrating.
it can be important for many reasons, it's surprising how often important components are missed off parts lists, or simple things like rom types (especially flash rom) aren't listed.
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