> Does this mean that future hardware releases ie 3.x, 4.x ..., the samples undertaken > will all be compatible with the hardware 3.0?
I doubt anyone knows, let alone the Domesday Duplicator developer Simon Inns.
Sometimes you have to take a risk on acquiring things like this recognizing that you may, in several months, need to acquire new circuitboards and re-dump your games, until development stabilizes. You can try to wait it out, but by that point your discs may have developed more bitrot. It's a crapshoot.
However, don't be afraid for the arcade dumpers regarding that recent announcement, I don't believe many arcade dumpers on The Dumping Union have actually received Duplicator boards yet, so they won't run into the 2.0 -> 3.0 backwards compatibility issue yet.
I don't think anyone has it completed yet and the last thing I read, Brizzo was saying for bleeding edge updates he could update the previous hardware version with swapping some components.
> Does this mean that future hardware releases ie 3.x, 4.x ..., the samples undertaken > will all be compatible with the hardware 3.0?
There was an issue with the analogue filter on the pre-3.0 boards that was causing distortion of the signal due to an unexpected high-frequency harmonic (that wasn't even documented in the Laserdisc specs) - so the main change on 3.0 was a new elliptic filter design that successfully removes the issue.
The 'incompatibility' is really noted for those that don't really understand the underlying process... ld-decode (a separate project that decodes the RF samples back to video/audio etc) needs to be 'tuned' to the response curves of the duplicator. Changing the filter changed the response quite a bit - so, if you use a 2.x board to make the RF sample, it won't necessary give a good result with ld-decode.
The actual sample 'format' is just data - so there is no 'file' incompatibility. Provided there are no issues with the analogue stages of the 3.0 design (and so far all testing has been very positive); there should be no need for such a design change again in the near future.
The laser disc games probably won't happen until sometime in 2020 since it will probably take a bit longer to improve the product first since the idea about this project is help customers keep various discs preserved as best possible. The MAME part is secondary/beneficiary to this customer product.
> Way too early regarding laser disc games, but there is progress with Domesday laser > discs since there is/are ongoing fixes with the capture method.
There are no ongoing fixes with the capture method. The DdD board itself has been done and dusted for literally months at this point. Literally all of the remaining effort at this point is improving the software decoder, and making it fast.
Additionally, none of this process is specific to Domesday discs. The team is just using those discs as the go-to examples, because they are the Domesday86 project. It's simply a matter of course that the tech involved is directly applicable to capturing any laserdisc.
That single frame does a great job of shutting any "why not just use a capture card" arguments right up in terms of resolution, but to really put it into perspective how far the ld-decode project has come in the past year, here's a video of the Domesday National Disc intro decoded by ld-decode as of about a year ago: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DQZ0bwqcRSaAQRfIuqhDg6xc7C1ttka_/view
Of immediate note are: - Drop-out detection and correction is massively improved (or rather, it actually exists in the first place) - Audio decoding is now implemented - Color gamut is wildly improved - Image stability is wildly improved
There are, nonetheless, still areas where it can be improved. Small dropouts of only a few pixels aren't yet detected, but there are some theories that it should be possible to detect them based on a rapid loss of frequency lock, rather than the current method which is to detect a sudden spike above or below the expected signal levels.
Anyway, suffice it to say that things are rolling right along. The main issue is going to be that the mainstay of the decoding process, ld-decode, is written in Python, and there's little interest on the Domesday86 team's part to port it to a compiled language. It's likely that someone will eventually have to port it between languages, and potentially make it GPU-accelerated, and that person is most likely going to have to be me.
> That single frame does a great job of shutting any "why not just use a capture card" > arguments right up in terms of resolution, but to really put it into perspective how > far the ld-decode project has come in the past year, here's a video of the Domesday > National Disc intro decoded by ld-decode as of about a year ago: > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DQZ0bwqcRSaAQRfIuqhDg6xc7C1ttka_/view > > Meanwhile, here's that same intro decoded with the latest WIP version of ld-decode > off of Github: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YAPvAjiguQ7zUZ2vQZL7Ix4HCLsmPBNE > > Of immediate note are: > - Drop-out detection and correction is massively improved (or rather, it actually > exists in the first place) > - Audio decoding is now implemented > - Color gamut is wildly improved > - Image stability is wildly improved > > There are, nonetheless, still areas where it can be improved. Small dropouts of only > a few pixels aren't yet detected, but there are some theories that it should be > possible to detect them based on a rapid loss of frequency lock, rather than the > current method which is to detect a sudden spike above or below the expected signal > levels. > > Anyway, suffice it to say that things are rolling right along. The main issue is > going to be that the mainstay of the decoding process, ld-decode, is written in > Python, and there's little interest on the Domesday86 team's part to port it to a > compiled language. It's likely that someone will eventually have to port it between > languages, and potentially make it GPU-accelerated, and that person is most likely > going to have to be me.
First of all, its really, really nice to see how far and well this capture method has come. The difference is clearly visible. I already told you that yesterday and i meant it that way.
What makes me sad is that you still "somehow" need it, to point at the "why not just use a capture card" argument, as i was this guy.
But you dont tell, at what state the whole LD-development was, at that time. Or that the previous (MAME) capturing methods and especially the tools for it, where not practical / handy for anyone who really tried to preserve anything LD-related (and that to a point, where it was nearly impossible without tremendous afford). You dont mention, that i just pointed at this and had a solution, what needs to be done to make this (old) capturing method properly and for everyone available. You dont mention that the argument come from a born (out) of necessity-thing, because of the still ongoing process of LD-rot. You dont mention, that even people from the MAME-dev team totally gave up on any chance to preserve something LD-related. You dont mention what came out of this discussion, which is the fact, that there is such a thing like a Domesday86 project . A project, which maybe would not be known of any of us here. You dont mention, that because of that fact, i said (and also did) i will either spend the money (that was planned as a budget for the capturing card and other affords needed) for upcoming LD-development or spend it for the DU to buy other cool things needed for MAME.
But you can mention the "shutting any "why not just use a capture card" arguments right up" or "there's little interest on the Domesday86 team's part to port it to a compiled language."
IMHO thats just not needed and doesnt do anything good, for any further and advanced process. At least nobody can say i am a bad loser, i still wish you a merry xmas and a happy new year.
> What makes me sad is that you still "somehow" need it, to point at the "why not just > use a capture card" argument, as i was this guy.
I've got to say, you're one weird dude. Because you're literally the only person who actually remembers that you were that guy. I mean it: The extent of my memory of you is that you're Jezze's friend and that you contributed towards the dumping of LCD handhelds, and sometimes we've disagreed on how things should be done. The fact that you were "this guy" and that we apparently disagreed on how best to dump laserdiscs was actually completely lost to the mists of time until you brought it up just now.
Want to know who I was referring to with my statement?
A dude on Twitter who less than a year ago, while the Domesday Duplicator project was well underway, insisted, and in a rather condescending manner, that it would be impossible and not worth the trouble to try to do a direct RF capture. Lectured me on how much he knew about Laserdisc players, and that he could assure me that it wasn't worth the trouble.
That is who I'm referring to.
Between the two of us, you are the only one who seems to be carrying around some massive chip on your shoulder. You are the one who apparently remembers every single disagreement we've ever had, just waiting to portray yourself as a victim, like some kind of unhappy wife.
Seriously dude, you've got to let this shit go. You must lead a very unhappy life constantly trying to read meaning that isn't there into everything that I say, believing that everything I write is somehow about you.
Merry Christmas. Go drink some gluhwein and enjoy yourself, and stop trying to infer some sort of slight against you in every one of my posts, because it's not there.
Well, i can assure you, i was not this Twitter guy, just to be safe .
BTT: No matter how you look at it, i.e. is this person me or some Twitter-guy. The main point from my previous post is still valid: it is not necessary to mention it. It doesnt do anything good for any further and advanced process and while you dont remember any previous discussion on this topic, there are maybe others that will and you see where such statements can lead. If you meant that guy, than twitter it there. I apologize that i had the feeling you meant me.
"Seriously dude, you've got to let this shit go. You must lead a very unhappy life constantly trying to read meaning that isn't there into everything that I say, believing that everything I write is somehow about you."
Again i can assure you, that i am beyond that point a long time ago. I would not have contribute in the past, be it money for handhelds or pcbs, a handheld (send to you!) and artwork or anything that might come, if that would be true. But i will still drink some glühwein today for sure
This wasn't out at the time of this thread, but a month or so ago Nostalgia Nerd posted a nice video about the DomesDay project for those who don't know about it (it was a UK thing) and would rather watch a video than read about it on domesday86.com.
Pronounced "doomsday" by the way. Old English spellings and all that.
>Literally all of the remaining effort at this point is improving the software decoder, and making it fast.
>Of immediate note are: - Drop-out detection and correction is massively improved (or rather, it actually exists in the first place) - Audio decoding is now implemented - Color gamut is wildly improved - Image stability is wildly improved
>There are, nonetheless, still areas where it can be improved. Small dropouts of only a few >pixels aren't yet detected, but there are some theories that it should be possible to >detect them based on a rapid loss of frequency lock, rather than the current method which >is to detect a sudden spike above or below the expected signal levels.
If the remaining software decoding issues can be fixed next year, just in time to begin rescuing and preserving various laser discs. iirc some guesses regarding the laser discs lasting about 40 years at best before no longer being readable....unfortunately just about there.
>The main issue is going to be that the mainstay of the decoding process, ld-decode, is >written in Python, and there's little interest on the Domesday86 team's part to port it >to a compiled language. It's likely that someone will eventually have to port it between >languages, and potentially make it GPU-accelerated,
2020...it is when MAME supports new improved laser disc capture method. / *kidding*, but I am guessing it will be a while when this happens. Seeing Mad Dog Mcree or any of the other ALG brand games being preserved (also in MAME if that is possible) is what I hope to see happen.
I think in regards to the laserdiscs in MAME, there are 2 different things. First is when the preservation technology has reached the point where laserdiscs in general can be added to MAME and emulated. And the second is specific games (Dragons Lair and Space Ace and possibly others) where other issues (e.g. games being available in various ways) mean mamedev will choose not to support those games at all.
There is nothing legally preventing them from doing so but I believe mamedev (or possibly the devs of that other LD emulator, I forget) indicated they wont support certain games in because Digital Leisure (or whatever company it was) is selling the product.
>First is when the preservation technology has reached the point where laserdiscs in general >can be added to MAME and emulated.
Before the improved laser discs support, there have to be several more laser disc player units still yet to be emulated and in case some of those specific laser disc games also have unique hardware components also needing to be emulated. There was specific stuff regarding Williams Star Rider hardware as an example, but don't remember the threads and details.
>And the second is specific games (Dragons Lair and Space Ace and possibly others) where >other issues (e.g. games being available in various ways) mean mamedev will choose not to >support those games at all.
The old DL hurdle
Maybe if enough MAME users purchase enough Mint Milano cookies, Pepperidge Farm will forget the whole thing and not tell DL about it.
imo, the customer market for DL products has probably sailed on by. The profit potential earnings probably ended between 2010 and 2015 now that most of the customers have now aged and moved on to other interests and the younger generations will have almost zero interests in the 1980s era games.
> imo, the customer market for DL products has probably sailed on by. The profit > potential earnings probably ended between 2010 and 2015 now that most of the > customers have now aged and moved on to other interests and the younger generations > will have almost zero interests in the 1980s era games.
You say this as people are paying upwards of $150 for a shitty cab you have to build yourself, running two to six games with an old-ass version of MAME.
DL sold Bluray versions of their flagship games a few years back. They also moved to Steam and GOG. The market is there, but MAME won't hurt it one bit.
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/ *kidding*, but I am guessing it will be a while when this happens. Seeing Mad Dog Mcree or any of the other ALG brand games being preserved (also in MAME if that is possible) is what I hope to see happen.
