My 2 cents, unless it was a pieced together inp cheating, it would probably be harder in mame because it would probably add some small form of input lag. Secondly all you have to do for a direct feed setup to the pcb (theoretically) is a Jamma adapter and supergun. Any idiot could set that up. I know that's not what he did but that article calls it brain surgery.
A JAMMA adapter for a non-JAMMA game? Would Clay Cowgill's adapters work?
I support the decision to invalidate and take down the high score records (and apparently there is much schadenfreude to be had, from what I've been reading -- I haven't see King of Kong yet), but I can see where this can get ugly even for "authentic" DK cabs:
How do we know a DK cab wasn't JAMMA converted? How do we know all of the resistors and capacitors are working to the levels they've would've fresh from the factory? Is the high score "really" correct after potential bitrot/incorrect PSU/not enough voltage/the monitor wasn't from 1981/the ROMs have wrong stickers/Shigeru Miyamoto didn't bless it as genuine/The Ikegami conspiracy/... WHEELS WITHIN WHEELS MAN
...anyhoo, while MAME and other emulators shouldn't be used as a gauge for human, non-TA speed/highscore runs by this type of standard, this can open the door for all sorts of high scores to be potentially challenged.
Just make a separate highscore board for emulators and ones for the "actual" hardware and be done with it.
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The tECHIDNA
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Don't make me go Hyper on you.
Plug the board into that then that into a supergun that is setup to record video.
> I support the decision to invalidate and take down the high score records (and > apparently there is much schadenfreude to be had, from what I've been reading -- I > haven't see King of Kong yet), but I can see where this can get ugly even for > "authentic" DK cabs: > > How do we know a DK cab wasn't JAMMA converted?
I don't know how that would invalidate anything. If anything you're going to add some form of lag and make the game more difficult.
> How do we know all of the resistors and capacitors are working to the levels they've > would've fresh from the factory?
That level of scrutiny obviously can never be part of the situation.
> Is the high score "really" correct after potential bitrot/incorrect PSU/not enough > voltage/the monitor wasn't from 1981/the ROMs have wrong stickers/Shigeru Miyamoto > didn't bless it as genuine/The Ikegami conspiracy/... WHEELS WITHIN WHEELS MAN > > ...anyhoo, while MAME and other emulators shouldn't be used as a gauge for human, > non-TA speed/highscore runs by this type of standard, this can open the door for all > sorts of high scores to be potentially challenged. > > Just make a separate highscore board for emulators and ones for the "actual" hardware > and be done with it.
I think twin galaxies already mixes the 2. I think the biggest issue is saying it's from real hardware and actually using an emulator.
Thanks y'all -- didn't know that TG did separate boards, which that's the way it should be. Also, now I have more confidence to get some of the pre-JAMMA boards. I'm just now getting back into the MAME side of things after life schnahs.
Quote: “Twin Galaxies,” [the Twin Galaxies Administration and Adjudication team] said, “is in the process of fully reviewing the compelling evidence provided by Jeremy Young to support his current score dispute case against Billy Mitchell's Donkey Kong score. We will do this thoroughly and impartially. In the meantime, we will continue to observe this discussion by experts in the community and will also examine any further evidence that may be provided during this review period.”
So, there is no official ruling that has happened as of yet on the Twin Galaxies Scoreboards, but the matter is carefully being considered. As they did with the Todd Rogers case, they are likely putting this under the microscope, gathering all evidence, and thoroughly examining the validity of all information provided before reaching a decision. The Editorial team will continue to follow the story as it progresses.
"Experts in the Community"? MAMEdevs, sounds like y'all been summoned for assistance.
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The tECHIDNA
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Don't make me go Hyper on you.
I don't understand the question. Are you wanting a mamedev to say something like "that mame version would add .2 seconds of input lag and .3 seconds of delay per 10 stages". I don't understand any question and answer combo helping the situation. He didn't tell the truth about the game source, that's not going to change and if people want an answer you have to first have a question.
I've no idea what "further evidence" TG is looking for or for whom TG regards as "experts in the community". I think they're looking for perhaps a MAMEdev saying something to the effect of "yep, Mitchell totally used MAME, and here's how without using animated GIFs."
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The tECHIDNA
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Don't make me go Hyper on you.
On current MAME, pretty much the only worthwhile difference is additional input lag. Contrary to what the post says, there isn't a TAS version of MAME (yet) that can create trick .INP files.
And did anyone understand what he was on about with the screen rotation?
> My 2 cents, unless it was a pieced together inp cheating, it would probably be harder > in mame because it would probably add some small form of input lag. Secondly all you > have to do for a direct feed setup to the pcb (theoretically) is a Jamma adapter and > supergun. Any idiot could set that up. I know that's not what he did but that article > calls it brain surgery.
Yeah, that's one of several places the article falls on its face technically. Direct feed from basically any standard-res PCB is a piece of cake.
> How do we know a DK cab wasn't JAMMA converted? > How do we know all of the resistors and capacitors are working to the levels they've > would've fresh from the factory? > Is the high score "really" correct after potential bitrot/incorrect PSU/not enough > voltage/the monitor wasn't from 1981/the ROMs have wrong stickers/Shigeru Miyamoto > didn't bless it as genuine/The Ikegami conspiracy/... WHEELS WITHIN WHEELS MAN
"King of Kong"'s lynchpin is that Nintendo "authenticated" the PCB, and that's absolute garbage, even if it makes the likes of the folks on that board feel better about themselves. We now know that Nintendo didn't even program the game, and aside from Miyamoto most of the staff of that time is long gone.
> > http://donkeykongforum.com/index.php?topic=2055 > > On current MAME, pretty much the only worthwhile difference is additional input lag. > Contrary to what the post says, there isn't a TAS version of MAME (yet) that can > create trick .INP files. > > And did anyone understand what he was on about with the screen rotation?
actually somebody at MARP was clearly using something with rewind capability (or 'load old state and resume replay) at one point, and another some kind of slowdown / re-recording technique (so speed and timestamps reported correctly) as they were weaving through bullet patterns on a shooter basically moving out the way at the last frame and it was obvious from anybody who had played the game that they had 0 knowledge of the patterns and surviving a few million last second dodges isn't really realistic, nor were the single frame direction changes etc (nobody does single frame direction taps over the course of many frames by hand, it basically isn't even possible)
also macro key and autofire stuff, although that's not as much use in DK
but yes, people have cheated with inps before, I'm not sure said builds are public, but it has been done.
> > How do we know a DK cab wasn't JAMMA converted? > > How do we know all of the resistors and capacitors are working to the levels > they've > > would've fresh from the factory? > > Is the high score "really" correct after potential bitrot/incorrect PSU/not enough > > voltage/the monitor wasn't from 1981/the ROMs have wrong stickers/Shigeru Miyamoto > > didn't bless it as genuine/The Ikegami conspiracy/... WHEELS WITHIN WHEELS MAN > > "King of Kong"'s lynchpin is that Nintendo "authenticated" the PCB, and that's > absolute garbage, even if it makes the likes of the folks on that board feel better > about themselves. We now know that Nintendo didn't even program the game, and aside > from Miyamoto most of the staff of that time is long gone.
yeah I'm not sure Nintendo of today would even know the difference between a real PCB and an xx-in-1 hacked to run just DK ;-)
> > Can we all please get a sense of perspective here. Cheating or not cheating, the > real > > crime will always be his haircut. > > My goddess, YES: > > > The Spaceballs helmet is not a good look.
"Highway to the danger zone!!"
"One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces!"- Nick Mason, Pink Floyd
> My 2 cents, unless it was a pieced together inp cheating, it would probably be harder > in mame because it would probably add some small form of input lag. Secondly all you > have to do for a direct feed setup to the pcb (theoretically) is a Jamma adapter and > supergun. Any idiot could set that up. I know that's not what he did but that article > calls it brain surgery.
It's a step up from that but still doesn't require a genius.
> but yes, people have cheated with inps before, I'm not sure said builds are public, > but it has been done.
Yeah, it turns out the stock mamedev.org build is the best for this kind of cheating: you simply enable -record and -play at the same time, which I'm surprised actually works. WolfMAME explicitly prevents that.
> > but yes, people have cheated with inps before, I'm not sure said builds are public, > > but it has been done. > > Yeah, it turns out the stock mamedev.org build is the best for this kind of cheating: > you simply enable -record and -play at the same time, which I'm surprised actually > works. WolfMAME explicitly prevents that.
but ultimately, if you want to, all you need do is recompile wolfmame without that check, and you get something that looks like it was recorded at full speed even if you were playing it at 5%
> In case you missed the news, which seems to be everywhere. Seriously, even the > Chicago Tribune is in on the reporting. > > King of Kong’s Billy Mitchell’s high scores wiped out by Twin Galaxies > > Steve Wiebe Recognised As First Million Point Donkey Kong Record Holder As Billy > Mitchell's Scores Are Nuked > > Sounds like all his scores were removed, including first perfect Pac-man game. > Congrats to the new first DK million-point winner.. Mr. Wiebe.
You're being manipulated by the movie. Like all "reality" TV they had to generate false drama; for King Of Kong they did it by pre-scripting everything Mitchell said to make him sound like he was twirling his moustache and waiting for moose and squirrel.
> > and his asshole response > > > https://realotakugamer.com/billy-mitchel...-are-legitimate > > You're being manipulated by the movie. Like all "reality" TV they had to generate > false drama; for King Of Kong they did it by pre-scripting everything Mitchell said > to make him sound like he was twirling his moustache and waiting for moose and > squirrel.
Yeah, except for the fact that his behavior in the intervening decade has more than proven that he is, in fact, a fucking douchebag.
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