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How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
#366735 - 06/12/17 08:09 PM
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Hi,
This is a curious question I have. I know the Roland MT-32 and SC-55 are not working in MAME right now, they don't actually emulate the sound. But at such time as the emulation is more mature, how would the machines be used for MIDI on an emulated PC or X68000 or any other computer that supported them? The synthesizer would need to handle MIDI while the computer would handle sound effects; and you'd need to be able to operate the emulated synthesizer simultaneously with the PC (did the Roland devices have their own independent volume control?).
Considering that MT-32 and SC-55 are separate machines and not just devices, is there yet there any way in MAME to run two machines at once, or to have them communicate with each other? Or would they need to be converted into devices for use in conjunction with another machine? I know that the ability to actually do this in MAME is probably far off, but has anybody given thought to how it might be done? This is just something I was thinking of randomly this morning...
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Re: How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
[Re: TServo2049]
#366738 - 06/12/17 10:02 PM
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It'd probably be handled the same way it's handled today with Dosbox & ScummVM. You'd set it up the same way you'd set it up on a real computer. They'd probably set it up to work with MUNT or the real hardware.
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Re: How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
[Re: Envisaged0ne]
#366741 - 06/13/17 01:19 AM
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Actually, I was asking about the possibility of someday being able to use MAME's own emulation of the MT-32 as a sound device for PC emulation in MAME, and how that might work since MT-32 is emulated as a machine in its own right. (The question of two MAME machines running in tandem might also apply to something like the Dreamcast VMU, which is also a separate machine and not just a system device.)
I don't think MAME would ever be compatible with Munt, especially having read R. Belmont criticizing its HLE.
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Re: How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
[Re: TServo2049]
#366750 - 06/13/17 11:12 AM
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I don't how far we are into this but the long term goal of mame seems to evolve in a modular emulator where you vvirtually interconnect every device you want.
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Re: How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
[Re: TServo2049]
#366781 - 06/14/17 07:55 AM
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Both the MT-32 and SC-55 have their own volume control, yes. I believe there is already some precedent in MAME for machines interacting with each other.
Some people have actually talked about having a virtual desktop where you can plug in devices, power things on, &c. I think that's a little much though.
I think this sort of thing, along with some of my work I hope to integrate in the future, could be easily handled with a tool that makes signal connections between various components with a GUI (kind of like a CAD program). It would look like a block diagram, where the blocks are various devices, and the connections must match by signal type. This would be a front end that generates some sort of declarative description of the system you want (e.g. XML). I think this kind of system would be intuitive for users and could possibly even be used for emulation development (e.g. a machine would consist of CPU blocks, memory blocks, ROM blocks, video signal and audio signal outputs, &c.).
But for the short term, I'm sure slot devices or something will work fine for these devices, and if there is something inadequate, it could easily be expanded.
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Re: How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
[Re: TServo2049]
#366782 - 06/14/17 07:58 AM
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Actually I believe you can use MUNT or any MIDI playback system so long as MAME provides a way to hook the emulated system's MIDI connection to the OS's MIDI APIs. This is the only way MAME could work with real MIDI devices, so I assume this is going to happen at some point.
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Re: How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
[Re: anikom15]
#366786 - 06/14/17 01:20 PM
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> This is the only way MAME could work with real MIDI devices, so I assume this is
> going to happen at some point.
Dude, MAME already works with real MIDI devices. Where have you been?
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#366790 - 06/14/17 05:14 PM
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> > This is the only way MAME could work with real MIDI devices, so I assume this is
> > going to happen at some point.
>
> Dude, MAME already works with real MIDI devices. Where have you been?
And has for many years.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
[Re: TServo2049]
#366791 - 06/14/17 05:18 PM
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We haven't chosen how that would work yet, so it's kind of pointless to ask.
One way that would work right now: if you have a virtual MIDI loopback port (drivers are available for Windows for this, and it's built into macOS and Linux) you could run a second instance of MAME with the MT-32. I've done this to play .MID files in the PC driver and receive them in the Apple IIgs driver.
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Re: How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#366804 - 06/14/17 10:50 PM
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> > This is the only way MAME could work with real MIDI devices, so I assume this is
> > going to happen at some point.
>
> Dude, MAME already works with real MIDI devices. Where have you been?
I figured. I've just never heard anything about it.
So it should be possible to use real MIDI keyboards and synthesizers, including the MT-32 and SC-55, already.
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Re: How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
[Re: anikom15]
#366809 - 06/15/17 12:21 AM
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> So it should be possible to use real MIDI keyboards and synthesizers, including the
> MT-32 and SC-55, already.
Correct. Hell, R. Belmont has previously posted audio clips of him playing one of the synthesizer drivers with an actual MIDI keyboard like 5 years ago. 
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Re: How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#366830 - 06/15/17 07:21 PM
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Now I'm even more excited about the PC drivers 
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
[Re: anikom15]
#366852 - 06/16/17 07:55 PM
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> Now I'm even more excited about the PC drivers
I can play Sierra games on MAME outputting to my real hardware MT-32. Unfortunately it drops bytes every now and then so notes get stuck, but it's nice to see LEISURE SUIT LARRY appear on the display
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| TrevEB |
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Brokering peace between the collectors and the Mame Community
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Re: How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
[Re: remax]
#367244 - 06/26/17 07:51 AM
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Not completely related but, are there any arcade game titles that had midi music in them? As far as I know, midi files were mainly used in PC titles.
If there are some arcade titles, would Mame benefit from an attached Roland sound canvas?
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: How would Roland MT-32/SC-55 be used for MIDI playback with another machine?
[Re: TrevEB]
#367268 - 06/26/17 09:46 PM
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> Not completely related but, are there any arcade game titles that had midi music in
> them? As far as I know, midi files were mainly used in PC titles.
> If there are some arcade titles, would Mame benefit from an attached Roland sound
> canvas?
The Keyboardmania games contain a Yamaha MIDI sound module (analogous to a Sound Canvas) which sounds the notes the player actually plays on the keyboard.
Beyond that MIDI was likely the format of origin of most VGM; even stuff played now by orchestras and streamed off HDD/DVD/Blu-ray typically originates as MIDI files. For chiptunes it's usually converted to a more compact and easily-parsed format for in-game, but some games do have real .MID files in their ROMs being played live by the audio CPU.
But in the meantime here's a practical demonstration of MAME playing on a Sound Canvas:
http://forums.bannister.org//ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=109985#Post109985
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