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Caps0ff tackles sega chips
#363836 - 02/24/17 01:51 PM
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Awesome work!
[Re: JonasP]
#363837 - 02/24/17 02:22 PM
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These guys must have some money behind them, going by what they write.
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Re: Awesome work!
[Re: DiodeDude]
#363840 - 02/24/17 03:00 PM
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> These guys must have some money behind them, going by what they write.
to my knowledge at the moment it's *mostly* just a passion for these things at the moment, cash donations really are needed to keep things moving forward.
to be really confident with these things ideally multiple copies of each chip need doing, for ones that are done visually this can be because in some cases a spec of dirt can look identical to a bit being set, and in the case of the ones that are read out, there's always a small chance of errors due to the nature of the work.
acquiring the chips is expensive, the processes involved are REALLY expensive.
even quite a few of the ones Dr. Decap did in the past need doing again really, to verify as a number needed to be handfixed so can't be trusted, so 2nd verification steps are definitely needed if we want to be confident about things.
Anybody who can afford to should really read
http://caps0ff.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/project-planning.html
From the contact I've had with these guys they're 100% professional in their work and maybe most importantly attitude, and will do the very best they can in each case, sometimes that will result in success, sometimes that will result in failure, but they're definitely not ones who are going to give up on a chip until they KNOW it is a lost cause getting anything better from it. It's going to take a lot of money and resources thrown at some of these chips, but you do have to consider that for many of the games being looked at this is part of a final push to get things from 'good enough'* to correct (something that is happening all over MAME really)
* and 'good enough' really in most cases isn't!
Edited by Haze (02/24/17 03:06 PM)
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Re: Caps0ff tackles sega chips
[Re: JonasP]
#363847 - 02/25/17 02:12 AM
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Do we know which of the Model 1 games this is from?
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Re: Caps0ff tackles sega chips
[Re: jonwil]
#363849 - 02/25/17 02:25 AM
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> Do we know which of the Model 1 games this is from?
2 common chips that all model 1 boards have - exact purpose unknown, and 1 from Virtua Racing. Probably a good starting place as we already have a fake rom we're using from Daytona that works with VR for comparison (that's why VR is currently emulated much better than the others)
there are 2 others Caps0ff don't have, Virtua Fighter and the one used by Wing War, SWA & NetMerc.
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Re: Caps0ff tackles sega chips
[Re: Haze]
#363851 - 02/25/17 03:25 AM
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If I wasn't flat broke right now I would donate money to somewhere for the sourcing of the 315-5711 from Star Wars since proper Star Wars Arcade emulation is one of my holy grails 
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Re: Awesome work!
[Re: Haze]
#364064 - 03/04/17 02:22 PM
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> > These guys must have some money behind them, going by what they write.
>
> to my knowledge at the moment it's *mostly* just a passion for these things at the
> moment, cash donations really are needed to keep things moving forward.
>
> to be really confident with these things ideally multiple copies of each chip need
> doing, for ones that are done visually this can be because in some cases a spec of
> dirt can look identical to a bit being set, and in the case of the ones that are read
> out, there's always a small chance of errors due to the nature of the work.
>
> acquiring the chips is expensive, the processes involved are REALLY expensive.
>
> even quite a few of the ones Dr. Decap did in the past need doing again really, to
> verify as a number needed to be handfixed so can't be trusted, so 2nd verification
> steps are definitely needed if we want to be confident about things.
>
> Anybody who can afford to should really read
> http://caps0ff.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/project-planning.html
>
> From the contact I've had with these guys they're 100% professional in their work and
> maybe most importantly attitude, and will do the very best they can in each case,
> sometimes that will result in success, sometimes that will result in failure, but
> they're definitely not ones who are going to give up on a chip until they KNOW it is
> a lost cause getting anything better from it. It's going to take a lot of money and
> resources thrown at some of these chips, but you do have to consider that for many of
> the games being looked at this is part of a final push to get things from 'good
> enough'* to correct (something that is happening all over MAME really)
>
> * and 'good enough' really in most cases isn't!
Since CapsOff has limited resources, what would you consider more important atm: to decap and readout as many undumped chips as possible or to verify those 'good enough' dumped chips?
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Re: Awesome work!
[Re: RdW]
#364067 - 03/04/17 07:59 PM
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> > * and 'good enough' really in most cases isn't!
>
> Since CapsOff has limited resources, what would you consider more important atm: to
> decap and readout as many undumped chips as possible or to verify those 'good enough'
> dumped chips?
I don't think you can really simplify this situation to a question like that.
A lot depends on function and level of confidence.
eg. while it would be nice to have another Bad Dudes MCU to verify, we know the code that looks suspicious isn't even used, so obviously doing a fresh chip that actually tells us something new, and potentially improves the emulation elsewhere is more useful.
some chips are less important than others overall too, for example a SemiCom MCU just copies data into RAM on startup, the simulation already does that, there is no further interaction with the game, so while dumping them would be handy for people repairing PCBs they are of no real benefit to emulation.
then you have the fact that some chips are a LOT easier than others, it might be 100x as much work for one type of chip as another, so if something isn't much work and can be done with relatively low risk, then it probably makes sense to do so anyway.
at the end of the day they just need steady funding and a level of understanding from the public as a whole.
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Re: Caps0ff tackles sega chips
[Re: JonasP]
#364813 - 04/01/17 12:37 AM
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Exciting. I like Virtua Racing. It has an issue of bumping into ghost cars. When this is incorporated into MAME, will it fix that?
2 other questions, sorry.
Any idea when this will be put into MAME?
Does this guy also have chips for Sega Rally? There is another AI issue with that game (slow cars).
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