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Softlist roms - Why have split/merged at all?
#355876 - 06/21/16 11:24 PM
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Just an observation: These console roms are so small in size, why not just make them unmerged and remove the parent/clone relationship entirely?
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Bart Simo says discuss dammit!
[Re: DiodeDude]
#355883 - 06/22/16 03:12 AM
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Re: Softlist roms - Why have split/merged at all?
[Re: DiodeDude]
#355925 - 06/24/16 07:39 AM
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reasons from the top of my head...
- because it allows easily to know which are the Jpn originals corresponding to some US/Eur games, and viceversa
- because some roms are shared, for systems where we have been able to document proper multichip PCBs (like many NES and SNES games) and for systems with multi-disk releases where only a single disk have been modified across revisions
- because anyway MAME shares most of the loading code across arcade and home system roms, so that the support is already there and it makes sense to exploit it 
If more come to mind, I'll reply again 
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Re: Softlist roms - Why have split/merged at all?
[Re: etabeta]
#355942 - 06/25/16 04:56 PM
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Understood, but what about the way parent/clones are setup? I see Euro sets being set as the parent when the japanese or USA version was the first release of the game. Shouldn't the first release be the parent?
Examples (NES):
Air Fortress Japan 1987, USA/Euro 1989 Euro is the Parent
Adventures of LoLo USA 1989, Euro 1990 Euro is the Parent
Alpha MIssion Japan 1986, USA 1987, Euro 1989 Euro is the Parent
I've noticed this on the Arcade side of MAME as well.
Sorry about the stupid questions. Stuff just hits me randomly
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Re: Softlist roms - Why have split/merged at all?
[Re: DiodeDude]
#355946 - 06/25/16 08:41 PM
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For arcade games, the newest/bugfixed world/euro version is generally the parent. The same rule was used for the softlist items too, however, on console games, the euro version is generally the inferior PAL version, yet the parent driver for the respective console is usually the japanese/us NTSC version, which seems at odds with the softlist.
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Re: Softlist roms - Why have split/merged at all?
[Re: Reznor007]
#356045 - 06/29/16 06:07 AM
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> the euro
> version is generally the inferior PAL version, yet the parent driver for the
> respective console is usually the japanese/us NTSC version, which seems at odds with
> the softlist.
NTSC version being parents was just the MESS convention, which was mostly the opposite of the MAME one.
Personally, I think we shall be as consistent as possible with MAME, so that I support keeping Euro software as parent in software list and I'd like to switch parent/clone relationship among console... but since P/C relationship is really nothing to make crusades about there has been no motivation enough to proceed in this direction, by discussing with driver maintainers about such a switch.
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Re: Softlist roms - Why have split/merged at all?
[Re: DiodeDude]
#356047 - 06/29/16 06:10 AM
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you got it wrong. the parent is traditionally the latest build, because it is typically the build with most bugfixes included, not the first release.
that said, parent/clone relations are just there to help sorting stuff, they don't express any judgement on the various sets: for instance arcade double dragon bootleg clones are often more enjoyable than the official releases, since they used a better CPU and there are less slow downs
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Re: Softlist roms - Why have split/merged at all?
[Re: etabeta]
#356049 - 06/29/16 06:40 AM
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> you got it wrong. the parent is traditionally the latest build, because it is
> typically the build with most bugfixes included, not the first release.
>
Lol, but that's backwards! Kids don't give birth to their parents! If they did, that would make them the parents......
.....Errrr shit.... I've created a paradox.....Dammit!
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Re: Softlist roms - Why have split/merged at all?
[Re: DiodeDude]
#356051 - 06/29/16 06:51 AM
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> .....Errrr shit.... I've created a paradox.....Dammit!
And the world will fall into that hole. Thanks, beau. The slowdown in DD doesn't bother me anymore, maybe partly because I expect it. Back in high school, though, we all pushed the stick that much harder, because it seemed awful lugubrious.
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Re: Softlist roms - Why have split/merged at all?
[Re: Traso]
#356084 - 06/30/16 01:46 AM
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I think Software Lists games parents should be the USA/Japan one, because games are in 60Hz contrary to Eur games which are generally 50Hz.
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Re: Softlist roms - Why have split/merged at all?
[Re: Jaylinx]
#356207 - 07/04/16 09:31 AM
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> I think Software Lists games parents should be the USA/Japan one, because games are
> in 60Hz contrary to Eur games which are generally 50Hz.
that's debatable.
for instance, portable consoles have no difference in their refresh rate across regions, so we can apply the arcade reasoning.
also, Commodore and Sinclair home computers had most games thought for PAL TVs, so that you get the intended behavior only with 50Hz
since there is no universal solution, I just prefer to stick to MAME convention by labelling Euro releases as parent, since it just works in many cases.
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Re: Softlist roms - Why have split/merged at all?
[Re: etabeta]
#356408 - 07/12/16 04:59 AM
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> > I think Software Lists games parents should be the USA/Japan one, because games are
> > in 60Hz contrary to Eur games which are generally 50Hz.
>
> that's debatable.
> for instance, portable consoles have no difference in their refresh rate across
> regions, so we can apply the arcade reasoning.
> also, Commodore and Sinclair home computers had most games thought for PAL TVs, so
> that you get the intended behavior only with 50Hz
>
> since there is no universal solution, I just prefer to stick to MAME convention by
> labelling Euro releases as parent, since it just works in many cases.
Not only that, but most European releases are later versions anyway, as they always seem to take a year or two longer to come out after the Japanese and US versions.
For instance the PAL version of Mega Man 2 fixed the boss-room-to-garbled-unbeatable-Wily-stage glitch, and had a 1989 copyright (not 1988/1989, unlike the US version, or 1988 only in the Japanese version). Mega Man 3 also had the second controller "tricks" removed, which were clearly only there for testing purposes but the game was released untouched due to being Christmas-rushed (but sadly they didn't fix the 60Hz-specific timing against the Wily Machine on the PAL version, so the screen jumps up and down erratically at 50Hz).
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Re: Softlist roms - Why have split/merged at all?
[Re: DiodeDude]
#358107 - 08/29/16 02:52 PM
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