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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: terminento]
#354113 - 05/10/16 06:27 PM
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> Thanks for the quick reply. I won't be asking for the updated rom because I know
> that's against the forum rules, but could you guys at least pinpoint me in the right
> direction? Because, so far, google hasn't been my friend, and since I only want to
> play this one game, I don't feel like downloading several gigabytes of entire romsets
> and update packs just for this one.
Most of the sites that you find that offer "loose" ROM sets are probably going to be out of date, but if you concentrate on Googling for sites along with the relevant MAME version (0.173), you might have better luck.
Also, there are sites that have torrents for all of the ROM sets in 0.173, and I can't think of a torrent program that I've used in the past five years that hasn't let you individually pick-and-choose which files in the torrent you actually want to download. Grab the torrent, deselect all, select swa.zip and you're good to go.
The most likely reason why your ROM set is out of date in this particular instance is that I'm pretty sure the MPEG audio ROMs for Star Wars Arcade were added later than when the original ROM set was added, and so those would be the files that MAME is reporting as missing.
I hope this helps, don't hesitate if you have any other questions. You seem like a decent fellow, so I'm happy to help.
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#354118 - 05/10/16 07:01 PM
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Thanks a lot! You were incredibly helpful! It was interesting to know that it is probably the music files that are missing. I'll let you know if I find the updated rom. 
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: terminento]
#354134 - 05/10/16 11:48 PM
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Thanks for your help, MooglyGuy.
Arg...! I'm about to give up! I feel so close, yet so far!
I found this one rom in .7z format, suposedly for 0.172. It weights 11,8 MB, and contains these 21 files:
epr-16467.5
epr-16468.14
epr-16469.15
epr-16470.bin
epr-16471.bin
mpr16477.bin
mpr-16472.39
mpr-16473.40
mpr-16474.41
mpr-16475.42
mpr-16476.26
mpr-16478.28
mpr-16479.29
mpr-16480.30
mpr-16481.31
mpr-16484.bin
mpr-16485.bin
mpr-16486.bin
mpr-16487.bin
mpr-16514.bin
mpr-16515.bin
I checked romcenter, and it pinpointed me to this page, and the list of files that I have match the ones on this list:
http://caesar.logiqx.com/php/emulator_game.php?id=mame&game=swa
I have 21 files, unlike older roms that only have 13 files. Also, mpr-16514.bin and mpr-16515.bin are supposed to be the mpeg files.
I tried the .7z both with 0.173 and 0.172, didn't work.
I tried unzipping it and pasting the whole folder with the files in it inside the roms folder, didn't work.
I tried rezipping the file into zip format using winrar with the default options, didn't work.
Am I still missing files? What am I doing wrong? Because at this point, it's either a miracle or I'll blow the dust off my old 32x cartridge and play that version instead.
Thanks in advance, fellas!
Edited by terminento (05/10/16 11:49 PM)
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: terminento]
#354135 - 05/11/16 12:28 AM
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This is where Romcentre comes in handy as it can sometimes turn a non-working Rom into a working Rom just like magic
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Arcade Addict
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: terminento]
#354146 - 05/11/16 05:49 AM
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> Arg...! I'm about to give up!
You are missing "epr-15112.17". It's network related, to connect two Wingwar or Virtua Racing games. Don't know why is it required to run swa.
Note that not all the changes I proposed here have been included, namely:
1. fix for torpedo lock-on system
(without it the game will be harder and often it will be impossible to complete 1st and 3rd stage)
2. fix for autopilot/own torpedo speed
(without it torpedoes will take longer to hit the target, ship controls will lock in the trench when entering stage 3)
3. fix for reactor chamber crash
(without it you will not be able to see the end game credits)
4. fix for proper speed control
(without it speed will not auto-center as it should)
By the way, I suggest to use mouse, it's much better than using keyboard.
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: dkongjr]
#354153 - 05/11/16 01:19 PM
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> Note that not all the changes I proposed here have been included
What's the reason ?
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: dkongjr]
#354154 - 05/11/16 02:18 PM
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Thanks! I investigated that particular file and found a package with the rom for the chip. It was incredibly useful, because once I put it iside the rom folder, Virtua Racing started working too (my first impulse was getting my hands on a Virtua Racing rom then extract the file from there, but it turned out the VR rom was missing the network chip file as well).
It is true that the changes you made haven't been implemented yet, and thus I suffered a crushing defeat at the hands of the Empire, LOL, yet still, it was great to be able to fly around and shoot down some ties instead of automatically imploding for no reason. It was also great to listen to J. Williams music in the background. After so many years, this arcade gem is finally getting some MAME love, and that is always a good thing.
Here's hoping your changes will be implemented in future releases, you did a great work.
Also, I would like to thank you as you were incredibly friendly and helpful, both here and in the youtube comment section for the video of the full run of the game. Even if the changes haven't been implemented just yet, thanks to your advice now people can know what specific piece of the puzzle they are missing, ad thus, have the correct rom ready for the moment torpedoes lock on and that chamber doesn't become a trap for the heroes of the rebellion, ha ha ha!
Thanks a lot for your efforts and support.
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: dkongjr]
#354157 - 05/11/16 02:57 PM
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: dkongjr]
#354158 - 05/11/16 04:14 PM
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> Note that not all the changes I proposed here have been included
Can you sum them up in a new thread? I'm a little lost at that point...
OG.
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: ]
#354159 - 05/11/16 04:25 PM
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> > Note that not all the changes I proposed here have been included
>
> What's the reason ?
Because you're insecure in your sexuality.
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: Olivier Galibert]
#354161 - 05/11/16 05:37 PM
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> > Note that not all the changes I proposed here have been included
>
> Can you sum them up in a new thread? I'm a little lost at that point...
>
> OG.
Post #353012 and #353636. I'm not sure if a new thread is really necessary, or if there is anything I can do to make it more clear or useful for you to make a proper implementation. Let me know.
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#354163 - 05/11/16 06:55 PM
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LOL! Well he asked a stupid question, got an appropriate answer
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Windows 11 64 bit OS
Intel Core i7-10700
Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 6GB
32GB DDR4 RAM
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#354164 - 05/11/16 07:16 PM
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> > > Note that not all the changes I proposed here have been included
> >
> > What's the reason ?
>
> Because you're insecure in your sexuality.
????? no comment...
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: Envisaged0ne]
#354166 - 05/11/16 07:34 PM
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> LOL! Well he asked a stupid question, got an appropriate answer
I see. All respect has been lost and this has at this point nothing to do with a helpful community. Instead it has turned in an weird place full of morons. I've never been disrespectful but since I don't feel comfortable anymore, I'll say this with full sincerity: FCK U VERY MUCH!!!!
Enough is enough... I quit here
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: ]
#354168 - 05/11/16 08:36 PM
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Please, don't get upset. Most people on this thread have been incredibly polite and useful so far, save for one or two infortunate comments. There are worse things in life to get worked over with, I think. Let us not turn this thread into an internet flame war.
As Dkongjr has said, the issues right now are torpedoes not locking on (the reticle does, but the torpedoes don't track their target. Their speed is way too slow, so even in a straight line they take too much timw to hit a static target. You can get trapped in the final reactor chamber of the death star, and the speed lever doesn't autocenter.
If you tried Star Wars Arcade in the past in MAME, though (and I mean DISTANT past), you'll recall the ship imploding because of collision issues at the start of the game, as well as there beign no music in the background. With the latest version (, 0.173 at the time of writing this), you can at least fly around and shoot ties with the regular lasers, and the music is there in all it's glory.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: sky25es]
#354194 - 05/12/16 04:52 PM
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> > Note that not all the changes I proposed here have been included
>
> What's the reason ?
Because they're not how the machine actually worked. dkongjr has been incredibly lucky with his "circuit bending" and then having OG/Ville translate that to actual math thus far; some patience will likely yield equally good results.
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: R. Belmont]
#354241 - 05/14/16 04:10 PM
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Quote:
some patience will likely yield equally good results.
Sure will! After all, we all want this game to work on MAME as faithfully to the original machine way of doing things as possible 
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: terminento]
#355699 - 06/15/16 05:48 PM
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Will these model1.cpp changes translate into potential improvements in the original VF emulation?
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: Artman99]
#355700 - 06/15/16 07:36 PM
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> Will these model1.cpp changes translate into potential improvements in the original
> VF emulation?
No. Original VF's issues with the disconnected hair and stuff are different TGP commands, likely for submatricies. Someone motivated with a grasp of 3D math could probably figure something out in a similar way though.
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: R. Belmont]
#355714 - 06/16/16 02:44 AM
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I thought your name looked familiar. Then I realized you were one of the devs for the Modeler emu 15 years ago. NICE!
Bart and Ian are doing great work on Model3 over at Supermodel, and they recently got a hold of a Model3 SDK that has really helped them solve some of the more obscure lighting and rendering issues. I realize the systems aren't the same, but perhaps some of the logic may help with Model1 over time.
Just a thought. Anyway - I'm just glad Model1 is getting attention at all. VF was a pioneer for future 3D fighting games, so any improvement to it's parent system's emulation is a good thing.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: Artman99]
#355729 - 06/16/16 05:14 PM
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> I realize the systems aren't the same, but perhaps
> some of the logic may help with Model1 over time.
No, they're completely different. Model 1 and early revs of Model 2 are fairly similar, but Model 1 and 2 and Model 3 are totally different how they work. Model 1 and 2's architecture is closest to the Sony PS2, while Model 3 works more like a modern PC video card.
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Hi Bart Simo *nt*
[Re: Artman99]
#355730 - 06/16/16 06:19 PM
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: R. Belmont]
#355733 - 06/16/16 07:28 PM
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> > Will these model1.cpp changes translate into potential improvements in the original
> > VF emulation?
>
> No. Original VF's issues with the disconnected hair and stuff are different TGP
> commands, likely for submatricies. Someone motivated with a grasp of 3D math could
> probably figure something out in a similar way though.
I wonder if they do some simple rope physics on the TGP.
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: Ville Linde]
#355734 - 06/16/16 07:47 PM
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> I wonder if they do some simple rope physics on the TGP.
I think so, something of the kind.
OG.
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: R. Belmont]
#355737 - 06/16/16 08:24 PM
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*Crushes VF fan boy's dream.*
Lol. I do appreciate the PS2 analogy, though. It illustrates much more clearly to an end user (like myself) why model1 has been such a mystery after all this time.
I DO have one more question that isn't VF-oriented per say. VF PC was released by AM2 in 1996, just 3 years after the arcade release in 1993. And while there are minor differences (player selection menu graphics, BGM) the game looks and feels exactly like the original during regular gameplay. Yes, you need to select the "classic" graphics from a hidden settings menu, but then port becomes shockingly faithful. The fact that AM2 released this port so close to the original tells me that AT THE VERY LEAST they still had access to the original software/SDK/hardware to make the PC version.
I'll get to the point - I recall that another port of an arcade game series (I want to say one of the CAVE shmups on xbox360? I know it WASN'T the Taito series, which I realize runs on a modified WinXP format) essentially led to the decoding of the original roms, as a shell had basically been built around the rom to get it to run in a PC (ok...360 console) environment. Is there any chance that the "VF PC" software may contain hints to model1's functions? Yes, I'm grasping at straws, but it's not a totally outrageous idea. Even at the start of a match, the PC-version characters will often dance too quickly for a second before being throttled to the correct speed - perhaps the shell (emu?) isn't throttling the original code properly for that second or two?
Even the layout of the software on the disk is odd. Character models are in one folder, levels in another, sounds in another, BGM is recorded mix-mode on the game disk itself, etc. And it doesn't really install anything to run - just a shortcut. The executable itself is TINY by modern standards. The disk is kind of laid out the way an older rom is. ANY chance this could provide input to the emulation?
I own the software and would happy to send the original, LEGAL disk to a dev if I thought it would help.
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Re: Star Wars Arcade (SEGA, 1993): fixing model1 emulation
[Re: Olivier Galibert]
#355947 - 06/25/16 09:03 PM
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> I suspect the collision changes have an impact on wingwar though.
Gave it a try and... Hell yeah, finaly no more collisions with the clouds 
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I do all that stuff even without a Joystick
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.
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