|
|
Hi:
I know all about the "3D and PSX games don't all run well" with MAME and slower computers. My machine isn't slow. Processing (CPU) power isn't the issue here.
System Specs:
Quote:
MAME version: 0.160 (latest as of now)
OS: Linux x64 (SDL1)
CPU: INTEL CORE I7 4790 3.6Ghz (OC to 4.0)
Memory: 16GB DDR3
Video: GeForce GT 730
Toshiba Solid State SATA3 HD
Issue #1: Jittery Backgrounds (interlace mode only)
There was a fix in 0.150 by Angelo Salese which I thought fixed the graphic issues in Soul Calibur. The glitchy floor graphics are definitely fixed, but the jittery backgrounds are still happening. I've tried a plethora of video options, save for the DX-specific ones (I'm on Linux).
When the camera pans during gameplay, the graphic glitch is obvious, except for Yoshi's stage (and perhaps others with less backgrounds). The negative effect that I'm seeing is hard to describe. Maybe artifacts? Talk is cheap, so I've provided videos.
Interestingly, in the videos below from youtube, I don't see the jittery backgrounds. I can't really tell if they are running the game in interlace mode or not, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNkCEClBvNs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gjGe72GuxQ
Issue #1: Slow Gameplay (interlace mode only)
MameTesters Bugs:
http://mametesters.org/view.php?id=3040
http://mametesters.org/view.php?id=3548
I know this is a known issue, but for anyone else out there trying to play this at normal speed, you'll need to tweak the MAME code to allow to boost the CPU throttle at between 1.4x and 1.5x speed.
Videos for both issues below. I can work around the slow gameplay, but the jittery backgrounds are kinda nuts.
Any insight appreciated. Thanks!
|
|
|
| R. Belmont |
|
Cuckoo for IGAvania
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 9716
|
|
Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: BlackGreen]
#338977 - 04/16/15 09:40 PM
|
|
|
> I know all about the "3D and PSX games don't all run well" with MAME and slower
> computers. My machine isn't slow. Processing (CPU) power isn't the issue here.
MAME decides that. You and I don't :-)
> System Specs:
> MAME version: 0.160 (latest as of now)
> OS: Linux x64 (SDL1)
Fair warning: SDL1 is *strongly* deprecated for targets other than OS/2. The quicker you get acclimated to our glorious multi-monitor future the better ;-)
> Issue #1: Jittery Backgrounds (interlace mode only)
> There was a fix in 0.150 by Angelo Salese which I thought fixed the graphic issues in
> Soul Calibur.
You mean this?
-PowerVR: Added YUV_TW texture hook-up (used by Soul Calibur at very
least) [Angelo Salese]
That's for the Dreamcast version of Soul Calibur in MESS. I guess that entry assumes a bit of uncommon domain knowledge (in particular that Sony didn't user PowerVR GPUs until the PSVita).
My guess is the glitches have the same cause as the speed oddities, but I don't have any particularly great ideas about solving it.
|
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: R. Belmont]
#338978 - 04/16/15 09:55 PM
|
|
|
Thanks for the response Belmont. I'm aware of the SDL changes and will eventually move over. The system I'm using is older and wouldn't be worth the hassle of upgrading other libs to get SDL2 working. I've seen screenshots of the new multi-screen features though - they look great.
Didn't realize the 0150 fix was for MESS. Sorry about that.
Should I create a bug entry on MameTesters?
|
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: BlackGreen]
#338981 - 04/16/15 10:04 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: Osso1]
#338982 - 04/16/15 10:26 PM
|
|
|
> Before posting a bug, please check it's not one already listed:
> http://mametesters.org/view_all_bug_page.php?filter=62669
I had already checked. There isn't any open (or closed) that relates to the jittery backgrounds. There was one for "scratched" backgrounds, but I don't think it's the same. The posted screenshot looks like non-interlace mode, which the jittery backgrounds don't happen with:
http://mametesters.org/view.php?id=4216
Also Searched: soulclbr, namcos12
Should I post a bug report even though this game is flagged for "Imperfect Graphics"? I've seen bugs get closed for that. I would think that having this reported for reference would be a good thing.
|
|
|
Tafoid |
|
I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 04/19/06
|
|
Posts: 3135
|
|
Loc: USA
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: BlackGreen]
#338983 - 04/16/15 10:49 PM
|
|
|
> > Before posting a bug, please check it's not one already listed:
> > http://mametesters.org/view_all_bug_page.php?filter=62669
>
> I had already checked. There isn't any open (or closed) that relates to the jittery
> backgrounds. There was one for "scratched" backgrounds, but I don't think it's the
> same. The posted screenshot looks like non-interlace mode, which the jittery
> backgrounds don't happen with:
>
> http://mametesters.org/view.php?id=4216
> Also Searched: soulclbr, namcos12
>
> Should I post a bug report even though this game is flagged for "Imperfect Graphics"?
> I've seen bugs get closed for that. I would think that having this reported for
> reference would be a good thing.
Policy on such bugs which are already flagged are we do not accept them unless there is substantial video proof recorded from a proven reliable PCB source detailing the different behavior. To simply know there is a bug isn't enough to report in these cases as usually there are source notes detailing known faults and developers wouldn't have it flagged if they did not have a good idea that something was wrong. If the problem is to be fixed the only time it is worth posting is to do so only with this reference material. Word of mouth isn't enough nor is comparing arcade 'ports' to consoles, no matter how accurate.
|
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: Tafoid]
#338985 - 04/16/15 11:28 PM
|
|
|
> Policy on such bugs which are already flagged are we do not accept them unless there
> is substantial video proof recorded from a proven reliable PCB source detailing the
> different behavior. To simply know there is a bug isn't enough to report in these
> cases as usually there are source notes detailing known faults and developers
> wouldn't have it flagged if they did not have a good idea that something was wrong.
> If the problem is to be fixed the only time it is worth posting is to do so only with
> this reference material. Word of mouth isn't enough nor is comparing arcade 'ports'
> to consoles, no matter how accurate.
I think what you are saying is that you need a video of the original arcade version to compare against? I never mentioned comparing this to console ports.
And I would like to think that this graphics glitch is somewhat obvious from the videos. The jittery effect doesn't happen in non-interlace mode. I'm still trying to confirm with other users if they experience this as well (on either Linux or Windows). Here are some youtube videos of claimed real cabinet versions of Soul Calibur.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp9EkhV9BCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVpMyfu5ZPw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUOhUuiMwAU
Not that up-close for the gameplay in these vids but I don't see the jittery backgrounds. Other than buying a Soul Calibur cab myself and recording videos, I'm not sure what else I can do to provide a bug summary that's worthy of MameTesters.
|
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: BlackGreen]
#338988 - 04/16/15 11:54 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: BlackGreen]
#338989 - 04/17/15 12:24 AM
|
|
|
> This youtube vid shows gameplay with Linux MAME 0155 without jittery backgrounds:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3rs6W_tk68
>
> I'm trying to find out from the guy who made it if he's using interlace or not.
Turns out he was running the game under non-interlace. He experiences the same jittery background effects with interlace mode.
He also mentioned a similar graphics issue with a Sega Saturn game Panzer Dragoon 2 running under Yaubause:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIiglkNCAB4
|
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: BlackGreen]
#339002 - 04/17/15 08:50 AM
|
|
|
> He also mentioned a similar graphics issue with a Sega Saturn game Panzer Dragoon 2
> running under Yaubause:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIiglkNCAB4
So an entirely different game running on an entirely different platform using an entirely different emulator has a graphics issue that's similar? Do tell.
|
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#339004 - 04/17/15 11:14 AM
|
|
|
> So an entirely different game running on an entirely different platform using an
> entirely different emulator has a graphics issue that's similar? Do tell.
This type of response is exactly why I hesitate to post on these forums.
|
|
|
| R. Belmont |
|
Cuckoo for IGAvania
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 9716
|
|
Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: BlackGreen]
#339008 - 04/17/15 02:15 PM
|
|
|
> > So an entirely different game running on an entirely different platform using an
> > entirely different emulator has a graphics issue that's similar? Do tell.
>
> This type of response is exactly why I hesitate to post on these forums.
Eh? By Moogly standards that's textbook Emily Post. And it's also an entirely correct point: if we reject console ports as comparison objects, you should be able to guess in advance what we think of an entirely different game on entirely different hardware 
|
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: R. Belmont]
#339045 - 04/18/15 01:09 AM
|
|
|
> Eh? By Moogly standards that's textbook Emily Post. And it's also an entirely correct
> point: if we reject console ports as comparison objects, you should be able to guess
> in advance what we think of an entirely different game on entirely different hardware
Maybe it wasn't obvious for Mr. Moogly, but I knew that we're working with two entirely different systems. I would never assume that whatever code fix was implemented on Yaubause would work with MAME. I had a thought for a moment that with the graphical glitches being so similar, maybe there was some design / high-level implementation aspects which could be compared. I don't think that's so far fetched. Instead of writing sarcastic responses to a bug / informational thread, maybe Moogly should spend some time investigating himself?
I don't know why you guys keep bring up console ports as comparisons. I'm not comparing this background jitters / redraws against anything but itself in non-interlace mode and the (alleged) cab videos above. Obvious graphical bug is obvious.
At the moment, I've done as much as I can to investigate the jitters / redraw bug for the MAME team. Seems obvious to me from the posts above that this bug is unwanted on MAME Testers. If you do want it added, feel free to use the info and attachments I've posted.
|
|
|
| Foxhack |
|
Furry guy
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 01/30/04
|
|
Posts: 2409
|
|
Loc: Spicy Canada
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: BlackGreen]
#339054 - 04/18/15 02:48 AM
|
|
|
> > Eh? By Moogly standards that's textbook Emily Post. And it's also an entirely
> correct
> > point: if we reject console ports as comparison objects, you should be able to
> guess
> > in advance what we think of an entirely different game on entirely different
> hardware
>
> Maybe it wasn't obvious for Mr. Moogly, but I knew that we're working with two
> entirely different systems. I would never assume that whatever code fix was
> implemented on Yaubause would work with MAME. I had a thought for a moment that with
> the graphical glitches being so similar, maybe there was some design / high-level
> implementation aspects which could be compared. I don't think that's so far fetched.
> Instead of writing sarcastic responses to a bug / informational thread, maybe Moogly
> should spend some time investigating himself?
>
> I don't know why you guys keep bring up console ports as comparisons. I'm not
> comparing this background jitters / redraws against anything but itself in
> non-interlace mode and the (alleged) cab videos above. Obvious graphical bug is
> obvious.
>
> At the moment, I've done as much as I can to investigate the jitters / redraw bug for
> the MAME team. Seems obvious to me from the posts above that this bug is unwanted on
> MAME Testers. If you do want it added, feel free to use the info and attachments I've
> posted.
If the issue is happening on two different systems and emulators... could there be a chance it's a video driver issue? That's what I thought of after seeing your post.
|
|
|
| Sune |
|
Connected
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 5648
|
|
Loc: Lagoa Santa, Brasil
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: Foxhack]
#339055 - 04/18/15 03:13 AM
|
|
|
> If the issue is happening on two different systems and emulators... could there be a
> chance it's a video driver issue? That's what I thought of after seeing your post.
The backgrounds only jitter when the game runs in interlaced mode.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that whether the game is running in interlaced mode or not, or whether you've loaded up Pong or Soul Calibur, makes no difference at all in regards to how MAME talks to your video card drivers, be it through DirectX or SDL.
S
|
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: Sune]
#339060 - 04/18/15 07:52 AM
|
|
|
I just tried Soul Calibur interlaced on Windows7 x64 MAME0160 with all available DirectX modes. Same background bug. Also tried software (soft) mode on both Linux and Windows (same prob). Highly doubt it's related to anything specific with graphic cards.
The similar bug that was found in Yaubause was part of the software renderer. There's probably some extra emulation steps required for interlace mode to get the graphics/backgrounds to be drawn correctly.
|
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: BlackGreen]
#339061 - 04/18/15 08:54 AM
|
|
|
> There's probably some extra emulation steps required for interlace mode to get the
> graphics/backgrounds to be drawn correctly.
There are loads of things wrong/missing, some of which are related to interlace mode. When you start the game it should tell you "the video is not 100% accurate".
At the point when it is 100% accurate then interlace mode will likely look worse as currently the graphics are incorrectly rendered progressive.
|
|
|
| R. Belmont |
|
Cuckoo for IGAvania
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 9716
|
|
Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: boogaloo]
#339071 - 04/18/15 09:06 PM
|
|
|
> At the point when it is 100% accurate then interlace mode will likely look worse as
> currently the graphics are incorrectly rendered progressive.
I believe but can't prove that the jitters he's claiming he sees are in fact the result of interlaced graphics being drawn progressive. BlackGreen: if you run a laserdisc game, would you describe the jittering you see there as similar?
|
|
|
|
Re: Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
[Re: R. Belmont]
#339075 - 04/19/15 02:40 AM
|
|
|
> I believe but can't prove that the jitters he's claiming he sees are in fact the
> result of interlaced graphics being drawn progressive. BlackGreen: if you run a
> laserdisc game, would you describe the jittering you see there as similar?
RB: I'll try that out tomorrow and get back with the results.
|
|
|
Index 
Threaded 
Soul Calibur: Yes, another "graphics problems" thread. [Linux / SDL1]
Reply
[Re: 
