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jopezu
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coding career
#334938 - 12/07/14 07:14 AM


curious for a few others that are trying to decide on a career. what coding languages/platforms are worth learning to offer the most industry-wide job availability for the forseeable future?



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Master O
Yes, Even Parodius Music
Reged: 11/20/06
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Re: coding career new [Re: jopezu]
#334939 - 12/07/14 07:14 AM


> curious for a few others that are trying to decide on a career. what coding
> languages/platforms are worth learning to offer the most industry-wide job
> availability for the forseeable future?

Why would you ask this question in the Loony Bin? Everyone here will just give you trolling and smart-ass answers.



"Note to Noobs:

We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.

C.D.~"



krick
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Re: coding career new [Re: jopezu]
#334943 - 12/07/14 08:16 AM


In my opinion, pretty much anything having to do with web development is probably a safe bet...

Java, javascript, html, css, jquery, json, xml, xsl, soap, sql, jsp, jsf, groovy, etc...

Also Java web frameworks: spring, hibernate, struts, stripes, etc...
Web servers: JBoss, Apache, etc...
Databases: Oracle, MySQL, etc...

In web development, the platform is usually a linux box, so you probably want to get familiar with using linux.

However, it's equally important to consider what companies you eventually work for and what you work on. Much web development work is easily outsourced. However if you can manage to find work at a company that works on sensitive government projects that cannot be outsourced due to privacy or security reasons, then your job will be much more secure and usually pay more.

As a case in point, I used to work for CSC on a project for the US Army, and now I work for GGI Federal on various projects for the EPA. Due to privacy and security concerns, none of the stuff I've worked on at either job can be outsourced. The work isn't terribly exciting or sexy, but the pay is good.



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lharms
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Reged: 01/07/06
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Re: coding career new [Re: jopezu]
#334944 - 12/07/14 08:41 AM


Start with python. Its a pretty easy to pick up and used to glue bunches of stuff together these days.

If you are looking for working in games C/C++/lua with a good math background (mostly linear algebra). But expect long hours and to age out quickly.

If you are looking to be a code grunt in some big conglomerate company go with c/c++/c# with .net. Maybe java depending on where you go. T-SQL and/or PL-SQL are good to have as well. With a pretty good understanding of both windows and linux/bsd stacks. Python works on them all. This hits most of the jobs you will see out there.

Javascript/node.js if you are looking to do browser type work. .net/C# can be handy here as well.

If you are thinking of being a mobile dev go with the mac stack and get objectivec and/or swift. Java/Dalvik for the android stack.

Get a decent IDE. Xcode, Visual studio, eclipse, and netbeans are free. Get a copy and start there depending if you have a mac (xcode) or windows (visual studio). If you are using linux get netbeans or eclipse.

Visual studio has python plugins and eclipse does as well. Not sure about the others, have never tried it.

Dont worry too much about particular frameworks they come and go and have wildly different advantages/disadvantages. Just pick one you like for now that helps you understand the basics.

Dont sweat it too much. You will not end up where you think you will One of the classes I took in college that I thought I would never use I ended up using every day... Go figure...

I am sure others will disagree with my suggestions. Which is something else you get used to in this industry. Everyone has an opinion and theirs is the best one



MooglyGuy
Renegade MAME Dev
Reged: 09/01/05
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Re: coding career new [Re: jopezu]
#334947 - 12/07/14 01:53 PM


> curious for a few others that are trying to decide on a career. what coding
> languages/platforms are worth learning to offer the most industry-wide job
> availability for the forseeable future?

What lharms said pretty much, but you're going to have to narrow things down a bit. "Coding" is overly broad and you're going to have to choose something to specialize in. Web development? Game development? Database management? Productivity software development? Embedded development? All of these have largely different sets of languages and skills that will get you to where you want to be.

The main thing that I cannot stress enough is to familiarize yourself with C and C++ before moving on to higher-level languages like Java. It breaks my heart that many universities are moving toward teaching Java in their computer science Bachelor's courses rather than sticking with C or C++. It's not that I'm a dinosaur when it comes to languages, it's that I've seen what ill-thought-out code in garbage-collected languages, both C# and Java, can do. People think a garbage collector will always save your ass, but there are plenty of ways to shoot yourself in the foot that will reduce performance. Learning C or C++ first teaches you to respect memory management.



URherenow
Reged: 09/21/03
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Re: coding career new [Re: lharms]
#334950 - 12/07/14 04:04 PM


When did Visual Studio go free? Didn't you have to donate a lung in the past to buy it?



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URherenow
Reged: 09/21/03
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Re: coding career new [Re: krick]
#334951 - 12/07/14 04:08 PM


I know quite a few cats that work for CSC. I've been considering applying for a job when I retire but I'm no software engineer. I'm more of a system admin/network tech...



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URherenow
Reged: 09/21/03
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Re: coding career new [Re: Master O]
#334952 - 12/07/14 04:10 PM


> Why would you ask this question in the Loony Bin? Everyone here will just give you
> trolling and smart-ass answers.

Curious post, considering not even MooglyGuy was a smart-ass...



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TriggerFin
Gnu Truth
Reged: 09/21/03
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Re: coding career new [Re: URherenow]
#334953 - 12/07/14 04:24 PM


> When did Visual Studio go free? Didn't you have to donate a lung in the past to buy
> it?

I think it was a few years ago, at least. About the time I time I stopped my recreational coding in favor of less rewarding pastimes.



lamprey
MAME Fan
Reged: 12/01/11
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Re: coding career new [Re: URherenow]
#334955 - 12/07/14 07:08 PM


> When did Visual Studio go free? Didn't you have to donate a lung in the past to buy
> it?

It's isn't free per se, but there are version that are free Express and Community are two free flavors. I'm not sure what the limitations are as I have full featured versions.



lharms
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Reged: 01/07/06
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Re: coding career new [Re: URherenow]
#334957 - 12/07/14 08:16 PM


> When did Visual Studio go free? Didn't you have to donate a lung in the past to buy
> it?

About 3-4 weeks ago I think. They made it way more useful for open source projects.

http://www.visualstudio.com/products/visual-studio-community-vs

Basically it is the pro version and called it community. So it doesnt have that cool code rewind thing. But other than that it is very usable. They also had a stripped down version for awhile (express). There are limits on usage. Like no more than 5 copies in an company. Basically to stop companies from using only the free version as they should buy MSDN anyway. It is unlimited for an open source project. They are talking about porting it to other platforms and integrating clang and GCC into it for the next version. So sorta free as in beer.

Also it (is?)/was about 500 bucks before like it had been for a long time.

The downside is 2013 is a pig in memory and disk. It makes 2008 seem snappy in comparison. But at least it is better than eclipse in that regard.

They basically had to. As at this point all the other IDE's are free. It made sense to charge 10x less than everyone else when it cost 20k to setup one mac dev platform in the 90s. But now its near hardware cost...



Master O
Yes, Even Parodius Music
Reged: 11/20/06
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Re: coding career new [Re: URherenow]
#334967 - 12/08/14 04:12 AM


> > Why would you ask this question in the Loony Bin? Everyone here will just give you
> > trolling and smart-ass answers.
>
> Curious post, considering not even MooglyGuy was a smart-ass...

Well, the Loony Bin usually isn't for serious questions and people usually respond with non-serious answers here. That was about it, really.



"Note to Noobs:

We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.

C.D.~"



Moose
Don't make me assume my ultimate form!
Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 1483
Loc: Outback, Australia
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Re: coding career new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#334968 - 12/08/14 04:37 AM


Lots of great advice in the replies so far.

Just a couple of things I'd like to add:

(1). If it is work / career you are primarily focused on, search through job ads in the technical areas (games, business systems development, systems programming, web development, app development, and so on) that you are most interested in and see what the most popular languages / tools are. Everything is moving to the web, so there is going to be a lot of overlap between areas, and the core skills are increasingly web development.

(2). Pick an area to start in based on what you like and what you find out in item (1). e.g. one language and a database management system. And come up to speed on that. Otherwise if you try and cover too much too soon, you could become paralyzed by the complexity / scope. The "Teach Yourself ..." books can be a great way to get started. As can be videos on YouTube, and "how to" guides on the net. Once you've become skilled in one programming language, it is relatively easy to pick up a 2nd and a 3rd.

(3). If you aren't working in IT as a career yet or in a career where you can practice your skills, then create your own project. Pick something you really want to do. A game ? An application ? Whatever you like. You might like to start with your user requirements - mock-ups of screens, business rules, validation rules, functionality, etc. Then, if you want, prepare a technical specification of the modules, etc that will make up your system. Then develop and test the system. If you can do this, you have gone through the core parts of the "Systems Development Lifecycle", and you can show selected parts of your work at job interviews. Employers will appreciate this and it may just give you the edge over other applicants !

(4). Never - NEVER - stop learning and adding new skills. Always be on the lookout for new, trendy niche markets - if you can get in early, you can gain some very marketable and lucrative skills that may set you up for life. When you are working in your career, find out what the people down the corridor are doing / using, and if it interests you, ask to borrow their manuals, course material, or whatever, and work through these after hours. Then see if you can help them on a project so you can get some real experience. Employers LOVE people who do this.

(5). Most important of all - find something that really boils your kettle and do this. Work hard. Keep learning. If it is something you love doing, you'll never "work" a day in your life.

I wish you all the very best !



Moose



Crazy Otto
Code Monkey
Reged: 04/11/12
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Re: coding career new [Re: krick]
#334972 - 12/08/14 06:15 AM


I was at CSC until quite recently. CSC lost the contract I was on to another company so I followed my project. I write boring .net apps. Basically just hooking forms to tables. It's not very challenging but it pays well enough if you're good at it.


The type of jobs around seems to be very regional. You have more choices and interesting jobs in major cities . If you don't want to live in the big city you could be stuck doing boring .net business apps.

I personally like .net as there seems to be plenty of jobs around. I don't really like MS but betting on MS is relatively safe, IMO. I'm just about to start teaching my boy, PC, to code. We will be starting with VB.Net. If he has any interest in coding, we'll back up and do assembler, then C.

I would check the job adds where you are, or where you want to be to see what's available.



Pi
Allergic to life
Reged: 09/20/03
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Re: coding career new [Re: Crazy Otto]
#335000 - 12/09/14 01:50 AM


> I'm just about to start teaching my boy, PC, to code. We will be starting with VB.Net.
> If he has any interest in coding, we'll back up and do assembler, then C.

(Excuse me but Object Pascal is still my fav language.)

VB is good for the basics but doesn't teach any good habits. And good habits are not complex, they are just better than bad habits.

I hit Pascal very early, barely did anything in Basic before it. When I discovered VB 3.0, I found it allowed me to do all kind of dirty stuff. It was fun for a while, I think I got tired at VB 6.0 or so. Then when hitting Delphi, I discovered that pretty much I learned with VB was in the lazyness/bad habits section.

Pascal has all the advantages of VB, and then probably the only disadvantage is that you have loads of code and components for VB where the selection is meager for Pascal. It's simple, straightforward, and the way flow control and syntax is laid feels very natural. IMHO it's a much better option for a first contact with coding. Plus if you want to move him to ASM and C, pretty much everything learnt from Pascal can be applied to C. The only thing I really like from C is the 'for' loop. For the rest, my bitch is Object Pascal.

I also think that it's better to understand procedural programming before moving into objects and GUI stuff. With Pascal you can easily create simple or complex console applications without using classes/objects, something that VB.NET can't do AFAIK.

Currently Lazarus + FPC is a very solid combination with lots of compatibility with Delphi, and since it's GPL'ed you are guaranteed a better price/quality relationship than Delphi itself. It's also the largest Pascal flavour IDE/RAD project out there, with lots of maintainers and many tutorials, components and resources.

If you want something more basic than Pascal, I'd recommend LOGO or similar for the real basics of coding, instead of VB.


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