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Several bugs with (EUR) Roms with MESS
#332997 - 10/09/14 01:00 PM
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Hello, I noticed several problems with MESS:
1) Some, not all, EUR Snes Roms have this message "This Game Pak is not designed for your Super Famicom or SNES", so it looks like MESS is using an emulated american SNES to emulate Roms, but isn't MESS supposed to have the Pal SNES Version emulated too ?
A lot of roms are working but some like Super Mario All-Stars are not. I wonder why a limited number of EUR Roms have this message and not the others...
2) It looks like EUR versions of Super Mario Bros games for NES are way too fast. It runs like 1.5 times the normal speed. It looks like those are the few european games with clock speed problems. That's strange...
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Re: Several bugs with (EUR) Roms with MESS
[Re: Jaylinx]
#332998 - 10/09/14 02:57 PM
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> Hello, I noticed several problems with MESS:
>
> 1) Some, not all, EUR Snes Roms have this message "This Game Pak is not designed for
> your Super Famicom or SNES", so it looks like MESS is using an emulated american SNES
> to emulate Roms, but isn't MESS supposed to have the Pal SNES Version emulated too ?
use the snespal driver
> 2) It looks like EUR versions of Super Mario Bros games for NES are way too fast. It
> runs like 1.5 times the normal speed. It looks like those are the few european games
> with clock speed problems. That's strange...
use nespal
seriously, most systems in MESS are supported in separate variants depending on the region they were released in. just use the one which matches the game you want to play 
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| Dullaron |
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Re: Several bugs with (EUR) Roms with MESS
[Re: etabeta]
#333009 - 10/09/14 04:37 PM
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> seriously, most systems in MESS are supported in separate variants depending on the
> region they were released in. just use the one which matches the game you want to
> play
You are correct. 
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| AWJ |
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Re: Several bugs with (EUR) Roms with MESS
[Re: etabeta]
#333021 - 10/09/14 10:18 PM
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Why is the parent version of the hardware the NTSC console, but the parent entries in the software list are Euro versions? Same issue with NES and several other consoles (and megadriv/genesis, but there the names are distinctly different so it's obvious what you're getting when you type "mess megadriv" or "mess genesis")
Surely if we want to be consistent in how we annoy users (who naturally expect NTSC to be the default, based on the market penetration of the original systems and on other emulators) "snes" should be the PAL console and the NTSC console should be "snesu" or "snesntsc". That way at least the "parent" entries in the software list will be compatible with the "parent" driver.
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Re: Several bugs with (EUR) Roms with MESS
[Re: AWJ]
#333030 - 10/10/14 05:16 AM
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because it's been like that since before I started working on MESS, and I never cared enough about it to force a change of habits.
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Re: Several bugs with (EUR) Roms with MESS
[Re: etabeta]
#333036 - 10/10/14 09:46 AM
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> > Hello, I noticed several problems with MESS:
> >
> > 1) Some, not all, EUR Snes Roms have this message "This Game Pak is not designed
> for
> > your Super Famicom or SNES", so it looks like MESS is using an emulated american
> SNES
> > to emulate Roms, but isn't MESS supposed to have the Pal SNES Version emulated too
> ?
>
> use the snespal driver
>
> > 2) It looks like EUR versions of Super Mario Bros games for NES are way too fast.
> It
> > runs like 1.5 times the normal speed. It looks like those are the few european
> games
> > with clock speed problems. That's strange...
>
> use nespal
>
> seriously, most systems in MESS are supported in separate variants depending on the
> region they were released in. just use the one which matches the game you want to
> play
I'm new to MESS and I'm still learning how to use it. I'w aware of how it works and how roms are organized. Looks like MAME with Parent and Clones. So SNES US/Jap is the Parent and SNES PAL is the clone.
I'm using a frontend to launch games. I'm a NES/SNES/GB/Genesis user and so far I only have problems with SNES Games. In fact, my frontend doesn't let me choose which Snes is best for my rom, it only select the parent one and that's it.
So I used the tab button and "Select new system", but counldn't find Snespal even with the search bar.
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Re: Several bugs with (EUR) Roms with MESS
[Re: Jaylinx]
#333041 - 10/10/14 11:41 AM
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> I'm new to MESS and I'm still learning how to use it. I'w aware of how it works and how roms are organized. Looks like MAME with Parent and Clones.
Welcome! Good to know you already are familiar with MAME, because as you will see, there are a lot of points in common between MAME and MESS 
> So I used the tab button and "Select new system", but counldn't find Snespal even
> with the search bar.
currently, systems which have no bios and require some carts to be loaded in order to boot up (like snes, nes, a2600, and their clones + quite many more) cannot be launched from the internal menu 
this is a known and longstanding bug with the internal menu, which I hope to solve soon-ish
what is really strange is the fact that the frontend you use does not display the snespal system!
just for curiosity, does it work if you launch it from command line
Code:
mess.exe snespal -cart path\to\your\game\game.sfc
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Re: Several bugs with (EUR) Roms with MESS
[Re: etabeta]
#333042 - 10/10/14 01:03 PM
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I made several tests
- Using MESSUI with the parent system, the rom that makes problems (Super Mario All-Stars (Europe)), has that "Game Pak is not suited bla bla bla..." message. This is probably coming from Nintendo to prevent US owners to play EUR Games in a US Snes. Because not all the games have that message. It's up to the developper to make games non-playables from one system to another.
- Using MESSUI with the clone system. All is working well with the rom. Game is launching.
So nothings wrong with MESS, this is something with the frontend I'm using (Emuloader), that does load the parent system all the time and does not switch between parent and clone when it's necessary.
I just realized that many emulators (Snes9X, Nestopia....) have an option to automatically use the NTSC or the Pal depending on the game you play. Maybe I'll ask the developper of Emuloader.
Thanks for your patience !
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Re: Several bugs with (EUR) Roms with MESS
[Re: Jaylinx]
#333061 - 10/10/14 06:34 PM
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> 2) It looks like EUR versions of Super Mario Bros games for NES are way too fast. It
> runs like 1.5 times the normal speed. It looks like those are the few european games
> with clock speed problems. That's strange...
Officially, there is only one PAL version of Super Mario Bros. (circa 1990), which was optimised to run about 20% faster (1.2x speed) to match the NTSC version. However, the game was first released in PAL regions in 1987 using the Japanese NTSC game chips, and due to the clock speed and frame rate differences between NTSC and PAL, this version runs slower and the music is flat (one half-note lower), as with many early titles - Mario Bros., Pinball, Excitebike to name a few.
NTSC game on PAL system = 50/60 = 83.33% speed = 16.67% slower
PAL game on NTSC system = 60/50 = 120.0% speed = 20.00% faster
If the pitch of the music/sound effects is tied to the console's clock speed as well (as with the NES and Sega Master System), then the music will also be the same percentage slower/faster (roughly one half-note down/flat for an NTSC game on PAL and one half-note up/sharp for a PAL game on NTSC).
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