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Danger Express?
#330398 - 08/22/14 11:33 PM
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New games added or promoted from NOT_WORKING statusHEADrefs/svn/root/trunkmaster Danger Express [Phil Bennett]
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B2K24 |
MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Antny]
#330399 - 08/22/14 11:35 PM
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> New games added or promoted from NOT_WORKING statusHEADrefs/svn/root/trunkmaster > Danger Express [Phil Bennett]
Yes, Phil and other MAME/MESS Devs are good at making things work
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: B2K24]
#330400 - 08/22/14 11:38 PM
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I didn't know this was dumped. One of the holy grailer kinda thingies.
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Stiletto![Administrator Administrator](//www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/images/adm.gif) |
They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Antny]
#330431 - 08/23/14 06:13 AM
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Stiletto]
#330446 - 08/23/14 12:15 PM
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I didn't think I was reading it right. I thought I was having a Twilight Zone moment. I was waiting for Rod Serling to walk into my office.
I guess that could be crossed off the list
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No :(
[Re: Antny]
#330454 - 08/23/14 04:52 PM
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Edited by Phil Bennett (08/26/14 09:44 AM)
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Foxhack |
Furry guy
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... is that guy Adam Baldwin?
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Bouncer next week?
[Re: Phil Bennett]
#330459 - 08/23/14 06:21 PM
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Just kidding. Thanks for getting it working. Thanks to the person who provided the dump. ![](//www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bow.gif)
another one preserved until Armageddon....
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Antny]
#330464 - 08/23/14 06:56 PM
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Finally, the most wanted proto working!
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Antny]
#330537 - 08/25/14 12:32 AM
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> New games added or promoted from NOT_WORKING statusHEADrefs/svn/root/trunkmaster > Danger Express [Phil Bennett]
Hi,
I'm kind of miffed at this. I was the one who provided the DE dump to Aaron several years ago under the condition they would not be released unless I gave the ok. I never gave the ok.
So do we get Marble Madness 2 now? Or is that persons wishes still being respected unlike mine?
Lesson learned. I have several other prototypes/most wanted that will never see the light of day.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: jordanrom]
#330541 - 08/25/14 01:21 AM
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Danger Express never knew it was a most wanted title complete with a 007 like baddie kinda like those rom hoarders.....
" i have something you want but you'll never get it mmaaaahhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaa"
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Arcade Addict
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: jordanrom]
#330567 - 08/25/14 05:25 AM
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> I'm kind of miffed at this. I was the one who provided the DE dump to Aaron several > years ago under the condition they would not be released unless I gave the ok. I > never gave the ok.
How do you know a ROM image didn't show up from a different source?
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: jordanrom]
#330570 - 08/25/14 05:45 AM
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I'm sure your wishes would have been respected. Maybe it came from somewhere else? Maybe it is just a mistake? ![](//www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif)
I'm thankful that you dumped it (and shared it with Aaron) I'm glad it's preserved 'so to speak'. I couldn't care less if it can be played or even shared. It actually looks quite boring.
Edited by Antny (08/25/14 05:47 AM)
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R. Belmont |
Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: jordanrom]
#330574 - 08/25/14 06:16 AM
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> I'm kind of miffed at this. I was the one who provided the DE dump to Aaron several > years ago under the condition they would not be released unless I gave the ok. I > never gave the ok.
Phil will need to answer for sure, but I'm 99% certain this isn't your dump. Stay tuned for several more Atari dumps of mysterious providence, including some 2600 stuff...
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gregf |
Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#330576 - 08/25/14 06:36 AM
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>Stay tuned for several more Atari dumps of mysterious providence, including some 2600 >stuff...
Good. Time to unearth the stuff that folks, former employees from Atari, would prefer to try and forget.....like Lyle Rains' Atari Crossfire.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: jordanrom]
#330595 - 08/25/14 02:29 PM
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> > New games added or promoted from NOT_WORKING statusHEADrefs/svn/root/trunkmaster > > Danger Express [Phil Bennett] > > Hi, > > I'm kind of miffed at this. I was the one who provided the DE dump to Aaron several > years ago under the condition they would not be released unless I gave the ok. I > never gave the ok. > > So do we get Marble Madness 2 now? Or is that persons wishes still being respected > unlike mine? > > Lesson learned. I have several other prototypes/most wanted that will never see the > light of day.
Years ago? What were you waiting for? The next glaciation??? Hoarder!!!
Edited by Ramirez (08/25/14 02:40 PM)
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R. Belmont |
Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#330598 - 08/25/14 03:39 PM
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Apparently I was wrong and DE is now going back to being hoarded because of this thread. People like to poo-pooh me when I say not to make a big deal out of "interesting" games being added unless a dev promotes it first; here's your proof that it's a bad idea.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: jordanrom]
#330601 - 08/25/14 04:01 PM
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I can understand you being upset. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. You should talk to Phil about this while the wound is fresh. We're (mostly) all adults here. Look at the post by R Belmont. He thought there may have been multiple dumps. Perhaps Phil (or someone else) did too.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: jordanrom]
#330665 - 08/26/14 05:10 PM
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Uh so, can you just stop hoarding the games or what? That or can you explain to the community why you're hoarding them?
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#330666 - 08/26/14 06:17 PM
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For better or for worse, it's a simple economic decision, or so it would seem in this case. The longer it remains unavailable to the masses, the greater the demand and, therefore, the more it'll be worth once/if it's sold. It could also, in a small way, be an exclusivity pride thing, but I won't speculate any further on that.
MM2 and other protos that Scott Evans has in his possession cannot and will not be released due to promises made to those who supplied the images/parts to get his games up and running. There are legal issues as well. At least, that's my understanding, based on what Scott has told me in the past.
I neither defend nor condemn their standing, and stay out of the politics of this issue these days, lest I be accused of "throwing a public hissy fit" again, like I did 10-12 years ago haha...
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"One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces!"- Nick Mason, Pink Floyd
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Brian Deuel]
#330667 - 08/26/14 06:30 PM
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> For better or for worse, it's a simple economic decision, or so it would seem in this > case. The longer it remains unavailable to the masses, the greater the demand and, > therefore, the more it'll be worth once it's sold.
I hadn't thought about that. Well I don't see how someone could use mame and be part of the community and hoard, at least for me I don't see how you'd live with yourself. But I appreciate the possible explanation. Before now the only thing I could come up with was either a social experiment to see if he could get mamedev to enter a hoarding conspiracy or to feel some sort of power and control.
> MM2 and other protos that Scott Evans has in his possession cannot and will not be > released due to promises made to those who supplied the images/parts to get his games > up and running. There are legal issues as well. At least, that's my understanding, > based on what Scott has told me in the past.
I've heard that excuse but don't believe it. Also, there are probably legal issues with releasing every single dump in mame, and nothing has ever happened.
> I neither defend nor condemn their standing, and stay out of the politics of this > issue these days, lest I be accused of "throwing a public hissy fit" again, like I > did 10-12 years ago haha...
I don't remember. If only we could all have a memory like gregf.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#330668 - 08/26/14 06:44 PM
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> > MM2 and other protos that Scott Evans has in his possession cannot and will not be > > released due to promises made to those who supplied the images/parts to get his > games > > up and running. There are legal issues as well. At least, that's my understanding, > > based on what Scott has told me in the past. > > I've heard that excuse but don't believe it. Also, there are probably legal issues > with releasing every single dump in mame, and nothing has ever happened.
Point taken. Again, I base this on conversations that Scott and I have had many years ago, so... well, there you go... > > I neither defend nor condemn their standing, and stay out of the politics of this > > issue these days, lest I be accused of "throwing a public hissy fit" again, like I > > did 10-12 years ago haha... > > I don't remember. If only we could all have a memory like gregf.
This was when I was maintaining the early MAME (and Retrocade... remember that?) history database(s). I dropped it because people were emailing Scott with some nasty messages about how horrible he was for hoarding prototypes (and many of the messages were over-the-top in their bile). I was pissed about all of the ridiculous nastiness and "quit the sk3n3." Someone took the database, made an edit or two, slapped their name on it, and called me all sorts of bad names. So I turned the database over to Alexis in France, and... again, there you go...
Edited by Brian Deuel (08/26/14 06:48 PM)
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"One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces!"- Nick Mason, Pink Floyd
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Brian Deuel]
#330669 - 08/26/14 06:46 PM
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Haha. Quitting the sk3n3 was a fashion statement back then. Glad you're back.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#330670 - 08/26/14 06:55 PM
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> Haha. Quitting the sk3n3 was a fashion statement back then. Glad you're back.
Eh... I lurk on the fringes these days, being in the post-40s, downhill years of my life. DICE and the discrete work in MAME are of intense interest to me now, as well as the occasional, thought-to-be-lost 80s game that suddenly appears. There's still some excitement to be had, it seems...
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"One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces!"- Nick Mason, Pink Floyd
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R. Belmont |
Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Brian Deuel]
#330673 - 08/26/14 07:27 PM
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> MM2 and other protos that Scott Evans has in his possession cannot and will not be > released due to promises made to those who supplied the images/parts to get his games > up and running. There are legal issues as well. At least, that's my understanding, > based on what Scott has told me in the past.
He's told me and Aaron the same thing. You can choose not to believe it, but at least there's a backstory. Something we lack here.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#330676 - 08/26/14 07:48 PM
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He's also not part of the community and most likely hates us.
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Sune |
Connected
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Rarity, physical PCB vs emulator bla bla
[Re: Brian Deuel]
#330680 - 08/26/14 10:11 PM
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> For better or for worse, it's a simple economic decision, or so it would seem in this > case. The longer it remains unavailable to the masses, the greater the demand and, > therefore, the more it'll be worth once/if it's sold.
Does it really make that much of a difference? If I was "a serious collector" I think I'd still want it. A working, rare game PCB, cartridge or cassette or whatever, is still rare, dumped or not, right? Nobody else has it, and now you hold it in your hands, you can plug it in and watch it go. There is no substitute for that. Anyone can download ROMs and play games in an emulator.
I don't know, am I being naive..? Do rare games really drop that much in value once they get dumped and emulated? Does anybody know of any *real* examples of that? Indian Battle? Halley's Comet? I mean if emulating is devaluating, there must be some stories to tell by now..after 20 years.. S
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#330681 - 08/26/14 11:26 PM
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>I've heard that excuse but don't believe it. Also, there are probably legal issues with releasing every single dump in mame, and nothing has ever happened.
Me neither, and it's unlikely he made a promise for all his games.
Wouldn't it be nice to peer in to the hard drives of the proto people. I assume they haven't downloaded rarities that the DU acquired because of their ethics....and legal issues.
Either way, I'm glad I posted so that the roms didn't show up anywhere and to respect his wishes. I'm also glad and thankful that he has them dumped. Hopefully he will let them out of the bag one day.
If you are reading this, can you at least let the YouTube videos stay up so we can at least see what the game looks like?
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#330684 - 08/26/14 11:49 PM
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> > For better or for worse, it's a simple economic decision, or so it would seem in > this > > case. The longer it remains unavailable to the masses, the greater the demand and, > > therefore, the more it'll be worth once it's sold. > > I hadn't thought about that. Well I don't see how someone could use mame and be part > of the community and hoard, at least for me I don't see how you'd live with yourself. > But I appreciate the possible explanation. Before now the only thing I could come up > with was either a social experiment to see if he could get mamedev to enter a > hoarding conspiracy or to feel some sort of power and control.
I dont kno if i agree with the value side, a proto is exactly that, a proto. It is, has and will always be. A dump can be made and emulated but that emulation is not a pcb nor a cabinet so i really dont see how it could de-value the pcb that much,
I think most hoarding is done as a power trip or a ego booster and bragging rights of the haves vs. The have nots.
Had a local guy who had several rare motors in his back yard, a pontiac ram air 4, ford boss 302, ford shotgun motor and a few others, he had em turned upside down and wont sell 1 of em, but made it known what he had when ever someone was looking for one. The motors slowly had the valve covers rot away until the motors sunk down into the mud and the heads were junk and finally locked up. Hey he had bragging rites but at the expense of losing some very rare iron, i guess he showed us.
I think many hoarders of games have the same mentality, difference is metal rusts, rom dumps dont... sometimes i kinda wish they did.
> > > MM2 and other protos that Scott Evans has in his possession cannot and will not be > > released due to promises made to those who supplied the images/parts to get his > games > > up and running. There are legal issues as well. At least, that's my understanding, > > based on what Scott has told me in the past. > > I've heard that excuse but don't believe it. Also, there are probably legal issues > with releasing every single dump in mame, and nothing has ever happened. > > > I neither defend nor condemn their standing, and stay out of the politics of this > > issue these days, lest I be accused of "throwing a public hissy fit" again, like I > > did 10-12 years ago haha... > > I don't remember. If only we could all have a memory like gregf.
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Only here to annoy...
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gregf |
Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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"All aboard the discrete 'Danger Express' " train
[Re: Brian Deuel]
#330686 - 08/27/14 12:06 AM
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>I lurk on the fringes these days, being in the post-40s, downhill years of my life. >DICE and the discrete work in MAME are of intense interest to me now, as well as the >occasional, thought-to-be-lost 80s game that suddenly appears. There's still some >excitement to be had, it seems...
Brunswick Astrohockey [pong clone] paperwork...including logic schematics and Atari Qwak bezel piece now aboard the train. ![](//www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tomato.gif)
Maybe some stuff happening in DICE later this year. Adam and Rich do have other remaining paperwork such as Ramtek Baseball and Allied Leisure Street Burners on hand as part of stuff I mailed them last year.
Adam and Rich might look over other stuff so I'll see what is on their list later and mail to them of what might be useful.
The Ramtek Clean Sweep and Atari Qwak pieces have yet to be scanned, but I will get them scanned when I hear of when to meet so they can be scanned. Antny is willing to work on bezel scans once they are online and accessible.
Qwak is not yet dumped, although I recall Mr. Goodwraith believed a Qwak pcb was dumped, but this was many years ago to the point a Qwak pcb needs to be found again and dumped.
Emulating light guns operation will be a challenge as what I was informed. Thankfully these were only used for a couple videogames like Outlaw and Qwak. PSE games didn't use any light gun ouptuts, but a collision detection method maybe similar to some of the rifle gun videogames like Midway Dog Patch or Midway Desert Gun.
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Re: Rarity, physical PCB vs emulator bla bla
[Re: Sune]
#330690 - 08/27/14 01:35 AM Attachment: AC1.PNG 92 KB (0 downloads)
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> Does it really make that much of a difference?
Of course it does...After all, look at the recent auction for Action Comics #1.
Tons of re-prints have caused it to be worth next to nothing:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311050328393
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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Re: Rarity, physical PCB vs emulator bla bla
[Re: Trebor]
#330691 - 08/27/14 02:07 AM
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But its not like you can "re-print" a rare arcade PCB like you can a rare comic book.
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Re: Rarity, physical PCB vs emulator bla bla
[Re: jonwil]
#330692 - 08/27/14 02:53 AM
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I can't tell which parts of the comic argument are sarcasm because I pay such little attention to their price fluctuations but emulation definitely lowers the value of PCBs in general. You don't need to look further than your own mind to know that. All the 80s and 90s games, if there was no emulation I would "have to have" so many of them. Who knows what I'd pay for a Rastan board if that was the only way to play it, but a hell of a lot more than they go for. With emulation I wouldn't pay much of anything for most of them. I'd rather have them on my PC than to even give up the space to store them and drag them around every time I move.
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Tomu Breidah |
No Problems, Only Solutions
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3rd Torch from Right = Evil Skull [nt]
[Re: Ramirez]
#330715 - 08/27/14 07:22 AM
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LEVEL-4
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Re: Rarity, physical PCB vs emulator bla bla
[Re: Smitdogg]
#330757 - 08/27/14 08:43 PM
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> With emulation I wouldn't pay much of anything for most of them. I'd rather have them on my PC than to even give up the space to store them and drag them around every time I move.
But the real collectors want the real thing. It actually makes it easier for them, because emulation separates the wheat from the chaff. Besides, if a collector is selling something, it means they no longer care about it, or they made poor life choices, and in either case are just money-grubbing.
Morality and sentimentality are excuses for being a wanker.
In terms of Peter f. Hamilton's GREAT NORTH ROAD: most people are Augustines and Bertrams. I am a Constantine.
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_________________
Culture General Contact Unit (Eccentric)
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Re: 3rd Torch from Right = Evil Skull
[Re: Tomu Breidah]
#330758 - 08/27/14 08:44 PM
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Whoa. No shit, huh?!
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Scifi frauds. SF illuminates.
_________________
Culture General Contact Unit (Eccentric)
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Re: Rarity, physical PCB vs emulator bla bla
[Re: Traso]
#330759 - 08/27/14 08:49 PM
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> > With emulation I wouldn't pay much of anything for most of them. I'd rather have > them on my PC than to even give up the space to store them and drag them around every > time I move. > > > But the real collectors want the real thing. It actually makes it easier for them, > because emulation separates the wheat from the chaff.
I'm talking about the entire market and how different it would be if there was no emulation. You are talking about a small slice of it, this type of arcade game collector who has to have the real thing at whatever cost.
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Re: Rarity, physical PCB vs emulator bla bla
[Re: Sune]
#330767 - 08/27/14 09:48 PM
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> I don't know, am I being naive..? Do rare games really drop that much in value once > they get dumped and emulated? Does anybody know of any *real* examples of that?
I didn't personally keep tabs on it, but I was told that winning bid prices in Yahoo! Japan auctions for games that the Dumping Project acquired (and that were later dumped and supported by MAME) almost always declined after the games were emulated, sometimes precipitously.
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Pi |
Allergic to life
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Re: Rarity, physical PCB vs emulator bla bla
[Re: MrGoodwraith]
#330772 - 08/28/14 12:50 AM
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> I didn't personally keep tabs on it, but I was told that winning bid prices in Yahoo! > Japan auctions for games that the Dumping Project acquired (and that were later > dumped and supported by MAME) almost always declined after the games were emulated, > sometimes precipitously.
Well, I'd like to add my opinion about this... There are two parts about this conversation. One is "in general, do emulated games lower the price of the real PCB?" and the other is "does the same happen with rare PCBs?".
In the first case, I'd say definitely. If I want to play SuperTetrisFighter EX and it's not emulated, and I have a JAMMA rig or something similar, and I can afford it, well, I just go and pay for it. Not because it's a collector's item, but because I want to play it. Maybe I am a collector and I will keep it, but in many cases, the amount of money you want to spend in something that you can get for free and probably in a cabinet setup (since you're with the JAMMA and maybe other arcade rigs) drops considerably.
In the rare PCB case, they are always collector items. Maybe they will only be tested and played a few times and spend their days mostly in a safe. Maybe they will be played, but they are acquired not for their playability, but 99.9% for their collectible value, as the first edition of Action Comics #1. In that case, wether the game is emulated or there's somewhere a free remake or whatever, is not relevant to the value. Moreover, if there's a rare PCB I am willing to buy, and it is supported by MAME, I might be prone to invest more money because I know that if the PCB suffers bitrot or something, I can repair it thanks to the documentation of MAME and the roms floating everywhere. Thus it's a more secure acquisition.
IMHO the japanese market is not so different regarding this. There might be more arcade fans, but they are probably the same as other human beings in this economy-driven world: there are things they want, and there is a budget to get them.
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Re: Rarity, physical PCB vs emulator bla bla
[Re: Pi]
#330777 - 08/28/14 02:29 AM
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I agree, i dont see it lowering value either.
Much like the 1911 45 pistol, look how many clones are out there and actually helped raise the value of the collector wwII models, by putting clones in peoples hands it has raised the interest of those collectable versions into the minds of others...
There are several arcade machines i would luv to have and because of mame the name of those games have changed. I was never much of a neogeo player in my younger days because most around here were fighting games and now after mame and playing metal slug i would have a neo machine as part of my collection along with golden tee golf, another game i wouldnt have spent a dollar on until mame...
So i do beleive in some instances avalability does help raise interest and prices to certain items.. The " hey this is cool i gotta get one" mentality.
As far as mame killing prices of standard pcbs this may be true but part of it may be to the fact that because of mame more pcbs/machines have been saved due to sparked interest into arcade machines or maybe because of mame it made it easier to save those games and more economical...
I truelly beleive mame has done more for arcade games then it has done to harm them even from a financial point of veiw...
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Re: Rarity, physical PCB vs emulator bla bla
[Re: Smitdogg]
#330816 - 08/28/14 10:35 PM
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> I'm talking about the entire market and how different it would be if there was no emulation. You are talking about a small slice of it, this type of arcade game collector who has to have the real thing at whatever cost.
That's what I thought this fuckin hobo show was all about - the guys who don't wanna let things get into public circulation. I mean, if you don't want shit to get MAME'd, don't give it to MAME.
And, market, shmarket. But I wasn't responding so much to your post there, as inputting on the whole thing in that spot.
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Re: Rarity, physical PCB vs emulator bla bla
[Re: Traso]
#330821 - 08/28/14 10:51 PM
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> > And, market, shmarket.
Well why don't you bark it.
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Re: Rarity, physical PCB vs emulator bla bla
[Re: Pi]
#330967 - 08/31/14 08:18 AM
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> > I didn't personally keep tabs on it, but I was told that winning bid prices in > Yahoo! > > Japan auctions for games that the Dumping Project acquired (and that were later > > dumped and supported by MAME) almost always declined after the games were emulated, > > sometimes precipitously. > > Well, I'd like to add my opinion about this... There are two parts about this > conversation. One is "in general, do emulated games lower the price of the real PCB?" > and the other is "does the same happen with rare PCBs?". > > In the first case, I'd say definitely. If I want to play SuperTetrisFighter EX and > it's not emulated, and I have a JAMMA rig or something similar, and I can afford it, > well, I just go and pay for it. Not because it's a collector's item, but because I > want to play it. Maybe I am a collector and I will keep it, but in many cases, the > amount of money you want to spend in something that you can get for free and probably > in a cabinet setup (since you're with the JAMMA and maybe other arcade rigs) drops > considerably. > > In the rare PCB case, they are always collector items. Maybe they will only be tested > and played a few times and spend their days mostly in a safe. Maybe they will be > played, but they are acquired not for their playability, but 99.9% for their > collectible value, as the first edition of Action Comics #1. In that case, wether the > game is emulated or there's somewhere a free remake or whatever, is not relevant to > the value. Moreover, if there's a rare PCB I am willing to buy, and it is supported > by MAME, I might be prone to invest more money because I know that if the PCB suffers > bitrot or something, I can repair it thanks to the documentation of MAME and the roms > floating everywhere. Thus it's a more secure acquisition. > > IMHO the japanese market is not so different regarding this. There might be more > arcade fans, but they are probably the same as other human beings in this > economy-driven world: there are things they want, and there is a budget to get them.
Not just the arcade scene either. I might have had Mega Man and NES emulators for years, but it simply doesn't recreate the experience that having the original NES versions do. Particularly the lack of save states, the old style CRT monitor, the lack of input lag, the lack of the music jumping which is so common in Nestopia... ![](//www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif)
Every time a "Genesis" repro cart of Mega Man: The Wily Wars finds a new home, the genuine Mega Drive version jumps up 10% on eBay and the like - of course, this could simply be Game Store A selling the game, Game Store B buying it then selling the game immediately for 10-20% extra in order to turn a profit, Game Store C buying it at any cost so it can be on their shelf within two days so some schmuck can buy it an inflated cost (except that Game Store D beats Mr. Schmuck and/or brute-forces him out of the auction with a $2000 max bid, if it isn't a Buy It Now), ad infinitum until it's worth a house or three 80 years down the track like that comic book. I'm convinced that online game stores have an infinite supply of cash, or like the buyer of that comic, more dollars than sense (guess which comic book will return on eBay next week for $4 million).
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*=/STARRIDER\=* |
MAME Punk
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Stranger Danger
[Re: R. Belmont]
#333841 - 10/27/14 01:37 AM
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This has always bothered me. NO ONE owns the rights to those roms! If it was a programmer that supplied them to safestuff then they simply stole them from Atari and gave them to him. The assumed programmer got paid to make it so he/she was compensated for his/her work and has no say. So in essence Safestuff is hoarding stolen property or in this case information to keep a promise or as part of a deal he made with the thief. No harm can be done by setting it free so set it fucking free!
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Renegade]
#333846 - 10/27/14 04:32 AM
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> I dont kno if i agree with the value side, a proto is exactly that, a proto. It is, > has and will always be. A dump can be made and emulated but that emulation is not a > pcb nor a cabinet so i really dont see how it could de-value the pcb that much,
Sorry for the late reply. Accurate emulation drops the t-total fuck out of the value of most pcbs, proto or not. I should know considering what I've been doing since ~2001 or whenever I got into pcb buying. It's to the point where if something isn't dumped, shitbag sellers always try to use it against us. I had one guy sending me messages wanting me to trade my $500 mint Cave kit for a broken Kaneko puzzle game that wasn't dumped. Once dumped it would be worth around $50 and the only people who would even buy it are techs who are confident they could fix it. But sometimes inaccurate emulation (like Cave emulation on the newer games) doesn't affect the price because the emulation is not close enough, if it's not close enough to where you can reasonably compare scores vs. pcb play then it will have less of an effect on the market for popular games. There are other situations where even if the emulation is good, if the game was good enough and rare enough then emulation doesn't make much difference on the price, like with Space Harrier or Gradius, the price is astronomical. But those are few and far between.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#333849 - 10/27/14 05:55 AM
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So do these hoarders of ROMS contact the MAME team and basically say "here are some rare ROMS, please get them running in MAME but don't release the ROMS" just so they are the only ones who can use them in MAME? If that's the case, they are basically using the MAME team to satisfy their own perverted enjoyment while screwing over the supporters and users. That's the worst kind of hoarder.
In the event someone provides the MAME dev team with ROMS they don't want released, the MAME team shouldn't release the source to make those ROMS work.
-Mc
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: McHale]
#333850 - 10/27/14 05:58 AM
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As far as the instances I'm aware of that's never been the case. The owners either own the original cab or it's Jamma which any supergun can run so mame doesn't really do much good for letting them play the games. It's a rare case with hoarders doing this. Usually they won't give up the dumps no matter what.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#333851 - 10/27/14 07:02 AM
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> As far as the instances I'm aware of that's never been the case. The owners either > own the original cab or it's Jamma which any supergun can run so mame doesn't really > do much good for letting them play the games. It's a rare case with hoarders doing > this. Usually they won't give up the dumps no matter what.
In some cases (Marble Man for example) I can understand why the ROMS remain private and while some people have a ton of animosity for Scott for not releasing them, he made a promise to his source not to release them in exchange for him getting his cabs working. I give the guy utmost credit for staying true to his word and enduring the abuse over the years. I also give him a ton of props for all the work it took for him to get them working.
But to have a rare game, and be part of the MAME community, and not want to share the ROMS "just because" just doesn't make sense to me. I can understand how it could possibly bring down the value but if you're going to sell it, wait until you sell it then release them. If you're not going to sell it, it is all irrelevant.
As far as Danger Express, most of us in this thread don't know what the story is so we shouldn't judge unfairly. Of course, many of us would love to have it working and available for us to enjoy but if this guy is the only source of the ROMS and doesn't want anyone to have them, it's probably best for everyone to settle down while the MAME team respects his wishes. Most of us haven't played 50% of the games in MAME after all of these years.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: McHale]
#333858 - 10/27/14 03:22 PM
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> > As far as the instances I'm aware of that's never been the case. The owners either > > own the original cab or it's Jamma which any supergun can run so mame doesn't > really > > do much good for letting them play the games. It's a rare case with hoarders doing > > this. Usually they won't give up the dumps no matter what. > > In some cases (Marble Man for example) I can understand why the ROMS remain private > and while some people have a ton of animosity for Scott for not releasing them, he > made a promise to his source not to release them in exchange for him getting his cabs > working. I give the guy utmost credit for staying true to his word and enduring the > abuse over the years. I also give him a ton of props for all the work it took for him > to get them working.
If you want to believe that story then ok.
> But to have a rare game, and be part of the MAME community, and not want to share the > ROMS "just because" just doesn't make sense to me. I can understand how it could > possibly bring down the value but if you're going to sell it, wait until you sell it > then release them. If you're not going to sell it, it is all irrelevant.
It is weird that he would have this much patience on a sale. 10+ years. It's only going to be a few hundred dollars max either way, not exactly a big investment/something worth waiting a decade+ for. In 2004 he probably could have gotten 75% of what he could get now on the bidding market. I've probably pissed more at the bar in one night than it has gained value in the last 10 years.
> As far as Danger Express, most of us in this thread don't know what the story is so > we shouldn't judge unfairly. Of course, many of us would love to have it working and > available for us to enjoy but if this guy is the only source of the ROMS and doesn't > want anyone to have them, it's probably best for everyone to settle down while the > MAME team respects his wishes. Most of us haven't played 50% of the games in MAME > after all of these years.
We do know the whole story of what happened, we just don't know every one of the owner's thoughts, but that goes for every person on the planet. People not having tried every rom in mame is irrelevant. This is about preserving a game, nothing is based on worrying about mame user entertainment levels.
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CTOJAH |
MAME Addict
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#333863 - 10/27/14 07:10 PM
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There are THOUSANDS of dumped games in MAME already - Why is this particular game so special ? At least from a player's point of view Danger Express is a pure crap and talking about its ROMs is simply an advertisement (free) for that greedy hoarder and also we just feeding his ego begging/asking for the roms. If he is concerned about dropping the price of his pcb, then we could make to him an offer to "buy the rights" for releasing the ROM. Probably he is expecting some amount of $$$ and he/we will be happy to pay off him and don't need to wait another decade or two.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#333864 - 10/27/14 07:11 PM
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> If you want to believe that story then ok.
From what I understand, he has previously helped out with some rare dumps in the past. From what I remember from years ago, he asked for some ridiculously large number for one of his MM2 cabs and once funds were gathered to buy it, he backed out. I dunno. I don't know the guy. The more people talk about it and the less he responds or gives in, the more desire for his cabs. If he were to start giving up ultra rare ROMS, he may be cut off from his excellent sources. I find it hilarious that there's all of this hub bub about the game. If we had it, I doubt I'd play it more than once or twice so I don't care either way. I'd contribute to buy it (or the ROMS) if it were an option but still could care less about it.
> I've probably pissed more at the bar in one night than it > has gained value in the last 10 years.
Yep. So this tells me it's about being selfish. He LOVES when rare dumps get found and put into MAME, he just doesn't want HIS ROMS in it. He could be the hero for providing rare ROMS or a selfish hypocrite. He certainly chose the weird decision.
> This is about preserving a game, nothing is > based on worrying about mame user entertainment levels.
Agreed. I've had about 10 cabs over my lifetime (all complete, some working and some not) and believe it or not, I've given all of them away for free with the exception of 2, which I still have (though I gave the boards away from one). They went to better homes where they will be appreciated and taken care of. For me, it's about preserving something from a small snapshot in history that will never, ever happen again. Money is short lived.
Either way, the drivers are written, the ROMS are dumped. That's good enough for me.
-Mc
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> This has always bothered me. NO ONE owns the rights to those roms! If it was a > programmer that supplied them to safestuff then they simply stole them from Atari and > gave them to him. The assumed programmer got paid to make it so he/she was > compensated for his/her work and has no say. So in essence Safestuff is hoarding > stolen property or in this case information to keep a promise or as part of a deal he > made with the thief.
You say safestuff stole the pcb? Or that somehow buying the pcb did not give him the right to run the software on it? Or to reach to employees of the copyright owner to fix what they sold him?
OG.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: CTOJAH]
#333884 - 10/28/14 03:26 AM
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> There are THOUSANDS of dumped games in MAME already - Why is this particular game so > special ?
I don't know why this keeps being said. I think you guys have a screw loose. That's like saying the sky is blue so why do we need this dump. The 2 things have nothing to do with each other. There are tons of free games on ios so why do we make mame? Hmm. And it's clearly into the so bad it's good category so, it's good.
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R. Belmont |
Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: McHale]
#333906 - 10/28/14 05:00 PM
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> they are basically using the MAME team to satisfy their own perverted enjoyment > while screwing over the supporters and users. That's the worst kind of hoarder.
Danger Express and Crazy Otto are the two cases I'm aware of where there's a working playable driver for a hoarded ROM set.
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> This has always bothered me. NO ONE owns the rights to those roms!
Someone pretty much always owns the rights to roms, you might not know who that is and indeed they might not know.
Demanding safestuff release roms is like demanding that you share naked pictures of your wife. You still have your wife, sharing the pictures of her wouldn't change anything.
Now imagine you gave the pictures to your best friend and he promised he wouldn't share them with anyone else.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: McHale]
#333919 - 10/28/14 09:05 PM
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> From what I remember from years ago, he asked for some ridiculously large > number for one of his MM2 cabs and once funds were gathered to buy it, he backed out.
He was hounded to sell it and he kept refusing but after months and months he eventually said "ok come back with $large number" that he didn't expect to ever get raised. When it was raised he went back to refusing to sell.
His mistake was thinking that after being hounded constantly that he could possibly escape.
Edited by smf (10/28/14 09:06 PM)
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: CTOJAH]
#333920 - 10/28/14 09:07 PM
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> If he is concerned about dropping the price of his pcb,
I don't know what he is concerned about.
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Dullaron |
Mitchell or Dunard Garaus
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: jordanrom]
#333922 - 10/29/14 12:38 AM
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> > New games added or promoted from NOT_WORKING statusHEADrefs/svn/root/trunkmaster > > Danger Express [Phil Bennett] > > Hi, > > I'm kind of miffed at this. I was the one who provided the DE dump to Aaron several > years ago under the condition they would not be released unless I gave the ok. I > never gave the ok. > > So do we get Marble Madness 2 now? Or is that persons wishes still being respected > unlike mine? > > Lesson learned. I have several other prototypes/most wanted that will never see the > light of day.
You realize that holding on something probably won't last forever right? Get it dump just in case it stop working completely down the road. I promise you will get the board back in working state. Trust Smitdogg.
By the way. The rare games dump can be restore onto another board chips. What I'm saying is that you have back up just in case those old chips died. Do you really want to risk losing your rare game? Losing those be like losing your coins collection or what ever.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Dullaron]
#333924 - 10/29/14 01:23 AM
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> By the way. The rare games dump can be restore onto another board chips. What I'm > saying is that you have back up just in case those old chips died. Do you really want > to risk losing your rare game? Losing those be like losing your coins collection or > what ever.
They are already dumped (he dumped them himself and provided them to the MAME team). So in that sense, they are preserved AND a working driver has been completed. For whatever reason, he didn't want them freely distributed. Not sure of the reason but I think if the ONLY source of the ROMS are his and he didn't/doesn't want them distributed, his wishes should be respected. Someday he may allow them to be freely distributed. We should just cross our fingers and hope.
-Mc
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Dullaron |
Mitchell or Dunard Garaus
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: McHale]
#333934 - 10/29/14 09:24 AM
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> > By the way. The rare games dump can be restore onto another board chips. What I'm > > saying is that you have back up just in case those old chips died. Do you really > want > > to risk losing your rare game? Losing those be like losing your coins collection or > > what ever. > > They are already dumped (he dumped them himself and provided them to the MAME team). > So in that sense, they are preserved AND a working driver has been completed. For > whatever reason, he didn't want them freely distributed. Not sure of the reason but I > think if the ONLY source of the ROMS are his and he didn't/doesn't want them > distributed, his wishes should be respected. Someday he may allow them to be freely > distributed. We should just cross our fingers and hope. > > -Mc
OK he own the game then. Make sense.
But he can't stop them release the driver. MAME Dev can do what ever they want with the driver. ROM's can be stop being release. Anyway they might've scrap the driver into trash.
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Re: Danger Express?
[Re: Dullaron]
#333939 - 10/29/14 11:31 AM
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> OK he own the game then. Make sense. > > But he can't stop them release the driver. MAME Dev can do what ever they want with > the driver. ROM's can be stop being release. Anyway they might've scrap the driver > into trash.
I doubt he'd care about the driver. After all, he does get the benefit of being able to play the game in MAME now. In fact, I hope he at least does everybody a solid and tests it thoroughly to verify everything is working properly.
-Mc
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