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Turning off autocentering in MAME?
#309201 - 05/23/13 03:25 PM
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Is there any way to turn off the analog autocentering in MAME on games like Space Harrier? I set the autocentering speed to 0 but doesn't seem to make a difference. I'm using a Xbox 360 gamepad.
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: uVSthem]
#309202 - 05/23/13 03:30 PM
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here are the settings below i use for space harrier, which for me work very well and stop autocentering. if these settings dont work for you perhaps you need to set your up/down/left/right controls in mame for the game space harrier to somewhere on your gamepad which isnt analog (ie. dont play space harrier with your gamepad's analog thumbstick, use the regular digital directional pad instead).. or, if u do want to use the analog thumbstick, set it to 'digital mode' instead
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: grog]
#309203 - 05/23/13 03:35 PM
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Thanks but it's still autocentering.
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: uVSthem]
#309204 - 05/23/13 03:38 PM
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> Thanks but it's still autocentering.
i edited my original post, ok try the other suggestions also
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: grog]
#309207 - 05/23/13 04:05 PM
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The D-pad is working fine in digital mode. I was hoping to use the stick to get true analog controls. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to live with the D-pad. Thanks
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: uVSthem]
#309209 - 05/23/13 04:25 PM
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i use a ps2 dualshock2 controller so i have the advantage of being able to turn analog mode on/off with a push of a button, so i can use the thumbsticks 'digitally' or in 'real analog' mode. im unfamiliar with the xbox 360 pad, im guessing you dont have that option.
it might still be possible to use your analog thumbstick to control the guy in space harrier but have the autocentering off. go into the Input (This Game) mame submenu, and clear the AD Stick X Analog and AD Stick Y Analog fields. then, map the AD Stick X Analog Dec, AD Stick X Analog Inc, AD Stick Y Analog Dec, and AD Stick Y Analog Inc to your left/right/up/down of your analog thumbstick. hopefully that will now have your thumbstick working in 'digital mode'
then, just make sure u have the exact settings in the picture i linked previously, and you should be good to go
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: uVSthem]
#309218 - 05/23/13 04:48 PM
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> Thanks but it's still autocentering.
Are you sure the controller itself doesn't autocenter? I mean, hopefully you'd know if it was snapping back to center, but stranger things have happened  MAME obviously cannot disable the springs in your controller.
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| AWJ |
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Reged: 03/08/05
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: uVSthem]
#309251 - 05/23/13 10:20 PM
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What do you mean by "autocentering"? In Space Harrier, the position of the guy corresponds to the position of the stick. If you want to stay on the left side of the screen, you have to keep holding the stick left. That's not the fault of MAME or your controller doing something funny, it's how the original machine works.
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: AWJ]
#309252 - 05/23/13 10:34 PM
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perhaps he's like me and actually prefers playing space harrier 'console style' ie. where the space harrier guy doesnt autocenter whenever u let go of the joystick. i actually find the game to be more fun and less hectic that way, and aiming now becomes more accurate (of course its no longer the same as how the arcade version works, but personally i dont care)
ps. i do the same for star wars...
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: grog]
#309260 - 05/24/13 01:33 AM
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> perhaps he's like me and actually prefers playing space harrier 'console style' ie.
> where the space harrier guy doesnt autocenter whenever u let go of the joystick. i
> actually find the game to be more fun and less hectic that way, and aiming now
> becomes more accurate (of course its no longer the same as how the arcade version
> works, but personally i dont care)
>
> ps. i do the same for star wars...
Can you post your sinistar settings, and does it work well for you?
I'm struggling with finding a good setup for it because it doesn't recognize partial positioning of the analog stick and always goes fast.
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: "The Manuel"]
#309262 - 05/24/13 02:18 AM
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> Can you post your sinistar settings
i have never played this game at the arcade or in mame before, however i will take a look at it tomorrow and report back
(note im only limited to what a ready compiled mame version allows... im no dev, coder, hacker, etc  .. if i was i would be off hacking double dragon 2 so that the controls are like double dragon 1 instead of the existing 'oh i just turned around and didnt mean it' deranged system...)
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: AWJ]
#309270 - 05/24/13 04:19 AM
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I understand now. I had no idea the original arcade was like that.
> What do you mean by "autocentering"? In Space Harrier, the position of the guy
> corresponds to the position of the stick. If you want to stay on the left side of the
> screen, you have to keep holding the stick left. That's not the fault of MAME or your
> controller doing something funny, it's how the original machine works.
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: grog]
#309274 - 05/24/13 07:52 AM
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> > Can you post your sinistar settings
>
> i have never played this game at the arcade or in mame before, however i will take a
> look at it tomorrow and report back
> (note im only limited to what a ready compiled mame version allows... im no dev,
> coder, hacker, etc .. if i was i would be off hacking double dragon 2 so that the
> controls are like double dragon 1 instead of the existing 'oh i just turned around
> and didnt mean it' deranged system...)
I "hate" Double Dragon 2 control system too. Though it's a part of the challenge in learning how to play the game and finish it with 1 coin.
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: grog]
#309280 - 05/24/13 02:22 PM
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> > Can you post your sinistar settings
>
> i have never played this game at the arcade or in mame before, however i will take a
> look at it tomorrow and report back
> (note im only limited to what a ready compiled mame version allows... im no dev,
> coder, hacker, etc .. if i was i would be off hacking double dragon 2 so that the
> controls are like double dragon 1 instead of the existing 'oh i just turned around
> and didnt mean it' deranged system...)
Don't worry, if you haven't played it. Frankly I don think it can be made to act like the original in MAME with an analog stick. I think something might be missing in the driver because degree of inclination of the stick is ignored. Either that or the fact that I last played it 26 years ago make me remember it differently :-)
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: "The Manuel"]
#309285 - 05/24/13 03:46 PM
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i checked out sinistar
with default mame analog settings it seemed to work fine here (although i havnt played the original arcade cab/used a 49-way joystick)
with my ps2 dualshock2 controller (and a ps2 controller to pc usb adapter) i was able to:
1. fly in much more than 8 directions
2. if i hold the analog thumbstick on my ps2 dualshock2 controller very slightly in any direction, the ship moves forward very slowly. the further i push the stick, the faster the ship goes, and it goes super fast if i push the thumbstick all the way in any direction.
so to conclude, it seems to be fine here, but as i say i havnt played the original arcade version so cant say how close to the arcade controls it performs
very strange if you can only get the ship to fly at one speed. for starters try deleting your sinistar cfg/ini/nvram files and starting from scratch
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: grog]
#309287 - 05/24/13 03:58 PM
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Thanks a lot for checking. It seems to be working the way it is supposed to in your setup. I am able to go in any direction but can't control the speed. I'll keep checking.
What version of MAME are you using?
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: "The Manuel"]
#309288 - 05/24/13 04:01 PM
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im using version 148, let me know what version you are using and i will give it a try
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: grog]
#309289 - 05/24/13 04:15 PM
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> im using version 148, let me know what version you are using and i will give it a try
Thank you. I am on 142.
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: "The Manuel"]
#309290 - 05/24/13 04:58 PM
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I just checked with MAME 148 and the results are the same.
Could you verify something else?
If press the stick all the way in one direction, this gets the ship going and when I let it go it continues to go at the same speed.
Does this happen to you as well?
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: "The Manuel"]
#309291 - 05/24/13 05:45 PM
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> I just checked with MAME 148 and the results are the same.
>
> Could you verify something else?
> If press the stick all the way in one direction, this gets the ship going and when I
> let it go it continues to go at the same speed.
>
> Does this happen to you as well?
i tried 142 and worked ok for me again
if i push full speed in one direction and then let go of the thumbstick the ship doesnt slow down. does it slow down at the arcade then? for definite or 'you think so' ? and how fast does the ship stop etc
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: grog]
#309292 - 05/24/13 06:01 PM
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: grog]
#309293 - 05/24/13 06:09 PM
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> i tried 142 and worked ok for me again
>
> if i push full speed in one direction and then let go of the thumbstick the ship
> doesnt slow down. does it slow down at the arcade then? for definite or 'you think
> so' ? and how fast does the ship stop etc
Thanks for checking. I don't remember if it is supposed to slow down or not, but I don't think so. I just wanted to make sure it did the same on your end. I also tried it with a Logitech Dualshock copycat I have and the feeling is the same. Maybe it was just this hard to control and I just didn't remember it.
I find it hard to home in on an asteroid to mine it for sinibombs, but maybe that's how it was in the original.
Thanks a lot for all your help.
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: joey35car]
#309294 - 05/24/13 06:11 PM
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: "The Manuel"]
#309295 - 05/24/13 06:13 PM
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Quote from Randy
The 49-way stick used in a Sinistar machine (Williams style) used a ball pivot and had the rubber spider to center. While this does provide a different feel than the Midway variety (The one HAPP started manufacturing), the Midway / HAPP 49 stick is much, much closer to this feel than any spring centered stick can deliver. It should also be noted that the differing mechanical design of the two have as much to do with the different feel as the centering mechanisms do, but that's another discussion.
Both the Midway and the new HAPP manufactured varieties use rubber grommets. With a rubber grommet, just as with a rubber spider, the further one pushes in a given direction, the more resistance one will encounter. Whomever re-designed the HAPP variety made a very poor choice, IMHO, when selecting the grommet to use, so they should be replaced if you purchase a new HAPP version.
The fact that the HAPP / Midway 49's use a rubber grommet for centering (as the classic games all did originally) instead of a spring is why I personally won't use any other stick. The feel is just much better for the games I like to play. They are very different from spring centered sticks and shouldn't be lumped together with them in the context of this discussion.
RandyT
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: joey35car]
#309296 - 05/24/13 06:19 PM
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its a shame, i never played sinistar before, and first impressions are i think it's excellent, madly addictive, exciting pace etc, but after reading around it seems it would be impossible to make it play like the arcade using any kind of analog control or any changes to mame settings/code itself, for the reasons below (taken from another thread on this forum)... ps. i checked out a video on youtube of someone playing a sinistar cab and i noticed he was picking up cystals very quickly and easily. however when i try it with my thumbstick it's just way too hard to grab them quickly. i expect some practice will help but it's obviously never going to be as easy as using the real 49way stick with the 'x rubber' thing.. so perhaps sinistar falls into the same category as atari game 720 degrees.. you need to use the original controller (or decent repro etc) to play the game how it should be played, end of story.
_______________________________________
Sinistar uses a special rubber "X" shaped centering system. Most analog joysticks use a single metal center spring, or two springs (one for each axis). With a typical analog joystick, it requires a certain amount of force to break free of the center. That same amount of pressure will be the same, no matter how far the stick is pushed away from the center - partly due to the sticks leverage.
With a sinistar "rubber-x", each of the 4 legs of the "X" is tied into each other. The further you move away from the center... the more pressure is required. So, it gets harder and harder to move out to the farthest edges. This makes it 10x easier to control the ship. (As you stretch 1 leg of the rubber X, the other 2 are also pulled... thus you get 3x as much resistance... which multiples the further the main directional leg is stretched). With Sinistar, you have to balance your speed and direction very acurately, going very slow and picking up the small slower moving crystals... to Very fast, to avoid enemy attacks & chasing after swift moving crystals.
With a normal analog stick, its far too easy to accidentally push the stick too far, and thus you overshoot a crystal by going too fast - blowing right by it. Even controlling the ships vector is harder without the extra resistance.
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: joey35car]
#309297 - 05/24/13 06:30 PM
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Thanks for the quotes. I seem to remember reading the one from RandyT years ago.
Edited by "The Manuel" (05/24/13 06:33 PM)
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: "The Manuel"]
#309298 - 05/24/13 06:39 PM
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i did notice on my searches about this game your name did pop up here and there where u have tried to find a solution to this problem over the years. there really isnt a magic solution unfortunately and even if u do get the ship moving at the correct speeds instead of 'stuck on one speed' you'll still have the problem of finding it tough to pick up crystals quickly, which obviously is a skill the whole game is based around with regards to getting high scores etc
i'd either try to get the real controls (or repro) mounted in your cab, or get an actual sinistar cab, or just forget about it =/ soz i couldnt help more
ps. if you do get an original sinistar joystick, i recommend getting a few of these below as spares...
http://www.wizzesworkshop.com/cart/product.asp?intProdID=20
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Re: Turning off autocentering in MAME?
[Re: grog]
#309299 - 05/24/13 06:42 PM
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Yep. I had forgotten about the "x" rubber grommet. I think I concluded in the past that this was the biggest key to play it right but forgot eventually, as sometimes I stay away from the hobby for years at a time and then come back and start chasing all my lose ends again.
Anyway, you helped me come to terms with this game, so thanks.
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Turning off autocentering in MAME?
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[Re: 
MAME obviously cannot disable the springs in your controller.
.. if i was i would be off hacking double dragon 2 so that the controls are like double dragon 1 instead of the existing 'oh i just turned around and didnt mean it' deranged system...)
