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taz-nz
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4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks coming soon...
#309190 - 05/23/13 09:16 AM


I have some new toys , that I will benchmark in 64bit MAME for everyone as soon as I can.



It's unlike I'll get the chance tonight to do any benchmarks, as I've got to strip and rebuild my PC and do a clean install of Windows.

The best your likely to see from me in the next 24 hours are some CPUZ screen shots at stock clock speeds. But I will be posting MAME benchmarks and stock & overclocked speeds as I can.

I have no idea how well this CPU will preform in MAME or how well it will overclock, but I intend to find out over the next few days.


And I must finish by saying I'm sad to see R.B. has left , I often cherry picked his posts to see if a thread was worth reading in full, I always valued his insights into any topic.



If all else fails, Burn the manual.



John IV
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks coming soon... new [Re: taz-nz]
#309192 - 05/23/13 09:30 AM


Welcome back, will be good to see some new benches. I'll probably go w/ a haswell when the time comes this summer.

http://www.mameui.info/Bench/Bench.htm



john iv
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R. Belmont
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks coming soon... new [Re: taz-nz]
#309215 - 05/23/13 04:41 PM


Ooh, hard data on Haswell finally



B2K24
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks coming soon... new [Re: taz-nz]
#309219 - 05/23/13 04:52 PM


I'm definitely going with Haswell



taz-nz
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks, totally stock clock speeds new [Re: taz-nz]
#309278 - 05/24/13 12:19 PM


Ok, so after a few set backs, like some how in the shift of data around on my hard drives since the last time I benched MAME, I managed to loss all the ROMs used benchmarking, none of the other ROMs just the folder I use for benchmarking!

So after a quick trip to my favourite download site later, I had the ROMs I needed. Then I just had to brush up on how to bench MAME, it so long since I last did it I'd never used the -bench command or not that I could remember, It a lot easier than the old way once you realise it the "bench" is case sensitive. :P

I ran all the games once first, to make sure any service setting that need changing to make the game run were set.


Anyway I will not bore you anymore, here are the first set of benchmarks at totally stock clock speeds.

3.5GHz 4th Gen i7 Quad Core with Hyper-Threading enable, stock Intel Turbo Boost to 3.9GHz. 16GB DDR3-1866 memory, on a Z87 motherboard, running Windows 7 SP1 64bit, and MAME64 v0.148u5.
John IV 2nd Gen i7-2600K overclocked @ 4.8GHz running MAME64 v0.141 for comparison. http://www.mameui.info/Bench/Bench.htm

blitz Average speed: 283.25% (89 seconds) 258
dolphin Average speed: 48.90% (89 seconds) 38
gauntleg Average speed: 349.74% (89 seconds) 370
gradius4 Average speed: 197.50% (89 seconds) 236
propcycl Average speed: 228.13% (89 seconds) 259
radikalb Average speed: 219.24% (89 seconds) 210
scud Average speed: 120.97% (89 seconds) 149
starsldr Average speed: 103.26% (89 seconds) 85


So I think we can safely say this thing is a beast, it's not even at 3.9Ghz (actual number is 3891MHz due to bus speed being a little low @ 99.77MHz) and it't already kicking a 4.8Ghz Sandy Bridge to the curb.

Now I know you want more, but Gigabyte's latest UEFI bios is total alien to me, It's looks more like the current generation of ASUS UEFI bois than anything Gigabyte has done to date, and the UI is just as buggy as the ASUS if not a little more, and I too tired right now to start playing with it. So higher clock speed will have to wait for tomorrow.



If all else fails, Burn the manual.



R. Belmont
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks, totally stock clock speeds new [Re: taz-nz]
#309279 - 05/24/13 02:21 PM


I don't expect a *major* speed difference between 0.141 on John IV's benches and latest, but there could be one. Could you re-run with 0.141 and see, to make sure we're getting accurate results? I don't think the ROMs changed for any of those sets in that time.



taz-nz
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks, totally stock clock speeds new [Re: R. Belmont]
#309286 - 05/24/13 03:50 PM


> I don't expect a *major* speed difference between 0.141 on John IV's benches and
> latest, but there could be one. Could you re-run with 0.141 and see, to make sure
> we're getting accurate results? I don't think the ROMs changed for any of those sets
> in that time.

Here you go mate, I got lucky and managed to dig up an old hard drive with old versions of the CHDs for Blitz & Gauntleg.

3.5GHz 4th Gen i7 Intel Turbo Boost to 3.9GHz, Running MAME64 v0.141.
John IV 2nd Gen i7-2600K overclocked @ 4.8GHz running MAME64 v0.141 for comparison. http://www.mameui.info/Bench/Bench.htm


blitz Average speed: 304.57% (89 seconds) 258
dolphin Average speed: 45.67% (89 seconds) 38
gauntleg Average speed: 403.06% (89 seconds) 370
gradius4 Average speed: 235.19% (89 seconds) 236
propcycl Average speed: 251.73% (89 seconds) 259
radikalb Average speed: 257.34% (89 seconds) 210
scud Average speed: 140.89% (89 seconds) 149
starsldr average speed: 82.68% (89 seconds) 85



If all else fails, Burn the manual.



John IV
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks, totally stock clock speeds new [Re: taz-nz]
#309319 - 05/25/13 02:10 AM


Cool, thanks. I'll add these to the bench page and credit the machines appropriately; that got cut when I purged the older bench runs. The 4.8Ghz was RB's.

Interesting the overall speed drop though from .141 to .148 when running on the Haswell.

Edited by John IV (05/25/13 02:34 AM)



john iv
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John IV
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks, totally stock clock speeds new [Re: John IV]
#309336 - 05/25/13 06:21 AM


Updated w/ latest results.

http://www.mameui.info/Bench/Bench.htm



john iv
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lordflux
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks coming soon... new [Re: taz-nz]
#309338 - 05/25/13 06:44 AM


Thanks for posting taz!

I'm still running a Core 2 Duo and I've been itching to upgrade for awhile. I'm ready to pull the trigger with Haswell.



krick
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks, totally stock clock speeds new [Re: John IV]
#309340 - 05/25/13 07:13 AM


When you benchmark, which games need to be manually initialized first, and do you delete the nvram for the other games (that don't need it) before each benchmark run?



GroovyMAME support forum on BYOAC



John IV
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks, totally stock clock speeds new [Re: krick]
#309342 - 05/25/13 08:08 AM


Gradius and Scud I think are the ones that need to be setup. Yeah I typically purge the other cfg / nvram / diff between runs.



john iv
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Ziggy100
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks, totally stock clock speeds new [Re: John IV]
#309350 - 05/25/13 01:36 PM


so, going Haswell will (mostly) get back the performance lost since 141.

2 steps forward, 1 step back....



etabeta
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks, totally stock clock speeds new [Re: Ziggy100]
#309351 - 05/25/13 01:47 PM


or you can still download 0.141 and be happy with that
we don't hold a gun at your head for updates...



taz-nz
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Start of slow down. new [Re: John IV]
#309357 - 05/25/13 04:09 PM


> Cool, thanks. I'll add these to the bench page and credit the machines appropriately;
> that got cut when I purged the older bench runs. The 4.8Ghz was RB's.
>
> Interesting the overall speed drop though from .141 to .148 when running on the
> Haswell.

I wondering about that myself, I thought it might have be the builds I was using so I when back and got the official MAME DEV builds of 0.141 and 0.148, same results, but I also notice that in game result we coming back at less than 100% for game running at over 200% using -bench command. So started look and got very distracted by the whole thing, but it look like the slow down started between 0.145 and 0.146 as you can see by the benchmarks below.

-bench 90 results:

Rom Name:	 0.141	 0.142 	 0.143 	 0.144 	 0.145	 0.146 	 0.147	 0.148

blitz 301.98 300.41 309.94 295.94 303.58 270.47 281.31 269.91
dolphin 45.58 45.43 45.26 44.36 48.50 5.79 46.68 40.74
gauntleg 407.80 413.61 420.10 392.98 417.84 334.68 341.01 356.73
gradius4 238.68 231.93 241.99 228.44 244.63 191.13 187.02 357.52
propcycl 250.51 255.59 253.63 223.01 221.50 219.31 227.60 227.67
radikalb 262.20 253.95 264.02 241.26 250.68 206.15 209.62 209.33
scud 140.89 152.58 159.40 144.97 150.78 127.66 129.80 191.38
starsldr 82.19 74.39 94.84 90.58 115.36 96.49 101.94 102.37


The interest think is that MAME appears to develop a stutter between 0.145 and 0.146 as you can see for the in game benchmarks below.

-seconds_to_run 90 -skip_gameinfo Results:

Rom Name:	 0.141	 0.142 	 0.143 	 0.144 	 0.145	 0.146 	 0.147	 0.148

blitz 100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00 98.64 98.10 99.77
dolphin 39.70 39.33 39.76 38.35 42.36 5.79 40.83 47.15
gauntleg 99.90 99.92 99.87 99.95 100.00 99.75 99.91 99.96
gradius4 100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00 98.89 98.75 100.00
propcycl 100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00 99.78 99.83 99.98
radikalb 100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00 99.72 99.78 100.00
scud 95.72 95.41 95.50 95.56 95.58 92.91 93.24 94.00
starsldr 60.48 56.33 66.81 64.79 75.63 69.23 72.57 72.85


So it looks like something changed in between 0.145 & 0.146 that is causes MAME to have micro stutters that and slowing down MAME as a whole. It would be interest to know what could have changed to have such a universal effect on MAME.

Update: did a quick check of the 0.145u builds, look like the slow down start with 0.145u1 .

Sorry guys I wasted the day messing this this stuff, so no overclock benchmarks today.

Edited by taz-nz (05/25/13 04:36 PM)



krick
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Re: benchmarking new [Re: taz-nz]
#309363 - 05/25/13 06:21 PM


I've been playing around with a little benchmarking myself and I have a few observations.

If you want to download the official MAME 64-bit builds for your benchmarking, you need to modify the download URL from this...

http://www.mamedev.org/downloader.php?file=releases/mame0141b.exe

...to this...

http://www.mamedev.org/downloader.php?file=releases/mame0141b_64bit.exe


I also noticed that at least in the 141 build, dolphin and starsldr do a lot of logging, which may impact the results. dolphin isn't really that much, but starsldr generates a 581MB file in the root MAME directory called "rdp_execute.txt".



taz-nz
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: taz-nz]
#309376 - 05/26/13 05:05 AM


Ok so I finally got around to over clocking the CPU, 4.8GHz is the best I can currently manage, but I think that's a combo of the limits of air cooling, lack of knowledge of the new bios settings, and possibly the very average power supply I'm currently using. I'm already look at replacing the power supply with a Corsair AX860i. Water cooling is probably in the works, but will require me to change cases which I not looking forward to.

Anyway here are the results: (RB's i7-2600K overclocked @ 4.8GHz for comparison.)

Rom Name: 0.141 0.141 Gain % 0.145 0.148

blitz 258 369.40 43% 371.79 318.26
dolphin 38 49.36 30% 52.12 50.44
gauntleg 370 503.17 36% 518.23 433.82
gradius4 236 290.16 23% 300.90 224.98
propcycl 259 303.46 17% 268.93 276.52
radikalb 210 319.78 52% 309.25 248.80
scud 149 174.07 17% 184.09 157.41
starsldr 85 101.34 19% 141.73 118.57


Gradius4 now joins, Blitz, Gaultleg, Propcycl & Radikalb in the 100% smooth emulation category.

Scud is likely to fall in the same category if MAME devs can prefect the graphics emulation without introducing to much of a performance hit, but only time will tell.

It seams Starsldr is the new hold out to aim for now. Playing Dolphin 100% smoothly is still in catching a unicorn territory.

Edited by taz-nz (05/26/13 06:42 AM)



R. Belmont
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: taz-nz]
#309539 - 05/29/13 09:32 PM


> Scud is likely to fall in the same category if MAME devs can prefect the graphics
> emulation without introducing to much of a performance hit, but only time will tell.

Scud used to be perfect 100% before the MPEG music was hooked up. In that one case, that's why it got slower after 0.141.



Ziggy100
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: R. Belmont]
#309688 - 06/02/13 01:35 PM


reading some of the reviews for haswell, seems he was a lucky boy getting one that can reach 4.8ghz on air cooling.

..most of them seem to be crapping out at 4.6ghz.



R. Belmont
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: Ziggy100]
#309704 - 06/02/13 05:04 PM


> reading some of the reviews for haswell, seems he was a lucky boy getting one that
> can reach 4.8ghz on air cooling.
>
> ..most of them seem to be crapping out at 4.6ghz.

Yeah, [H]ardOCP relayed a caution from ASUS that the engineering samples averaged around 4.5 to 4.6 GHz and were pretty variable part-to-part. (Kyle at HOCP got it to boot Windows as high as 5.0 GHz with a full water cooling setup but it wasn't stable). My guess is that after a month or two of production the variance will flatten out, hopefully in the faster direction. Intel aren't the masters of process technology for nothing.

Plus you wouldn't want to buy one today anyway; all available motherboards have a defective stepping of the chipset which means the USB 3.0 ports will die if the system enters a sleep state (you have to unplug and replug the affected devices).

ETA: we can pretty much answer if Haswell ends the need for an Nvidia or AMD video card to do HLSL in MAME: no. The highest-spec "GT3" onboard graphics for Haswell benches consistently behind the Nvidia GeForce 650M commonly found in laptops, and on shader-heavier loads it gets more behind.

Edited by R. Belmont (06/02/13 05:11 PM)



Ziggy100
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: R. Belmont]
#309707 - 06/02/13 06:27 PM


Truthfully right now, if i were going to get a new CPU, I'd pick up one of those peachy 4Core Hyper threaded 2700K's, whilst they're still around.

I've yet to see one yet that won't do 4.5Ghz as a bare minimum on air cooling.

Screw being a generation or 2 behind, they're better chips than these haswells.



R. Belmont
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: Ziggy100]
#309712 - 06/02/13 08:41 PM


> Truthfully right now, if i were going to get a new CPU, I'd pick up one of those
> peachy 4Core Hyper threaded 2700K's, whilst they're still around.
>
> I've yet to see one yet that won't do 4.5Ghz as a bare minimum on air cooling.
>
> Screw being a generation or 2 behind, they're better chips than these haswells.

I wouldn't go *that* far - HWL does require a lower clock to perform as well as IVB, but of course when the goal is just plain faster that's not entirely great. Non-overclockers that run high-spec emulators like MAME, Dolphin, and PCSX2 will get great performance with HWL once the chipset issue is fixed up.

And once Ryan's new render branch pays off you might need need an overclock as much anymore.



RetroRepair
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: R. Belmont]
#309720 - 06/03/13 12:10 AM


> And once Ryan's new render branch pays off you might need need an overclock as much
> anymore.

Really? What's this then or where can I read more?

I'm sorry to hear you left MAMEDev too btw, thank you for all the years of hard work.



Marcelo_20XX
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: R. Belmont]
#309722 - 06/03/13 12:48 AM


Haswell is the way to go for me, because in some countries is not easy to overclock your PC because you don't have access to the required tools (better cooling system), so you are stuck with the stock speeds



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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: RetroRepair]
#309727 - 06/03/13 02:53 AM


> Really? What's this then or where can I read more?

When there is something to read about you'll know.



jonwil
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks coming soon... new [Re: taz-nz]
#309735 - 06/03/13 03:56 AM


Wish I could afford to replace this Core 2 Duo with an i7
Great to see that Haswell does continue to push the limits of emulation and makes even more things possible



Ziggy100
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: RetroRepair]
#309750 - 06/03/13 01:12 PM



> Really? What's this then or where can I read more?



..sounds like they're trying to farm off the graphics rendering to a separate core/cores.

Quad Cores will finally come into their own I guess.



Master O
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: R. Belmont]
#309804 - 06/04/13 02:46 PM


> > Scud is likely to fall in the same category if MAME devs can prefect the graphics
> > emulation without introducing to much of a performance hit, but only time will
> tell.
>
> Scud used to be perfect 100% before the MPEG music was hooked up. In that one case,
> that's why it got slower after 0.141.

I thought MAME couldn't include MPEG for legal reasons. Did the patent run out? I don't remember the exact situation, tbh.



TafoidAdministrator
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: Master O]
#309808 - 06/04/13 04:01 PM


> > > Scud is likely to fall in the same category if MAME devs can prefect the graphics
> > > emulation without introducing to much of a performance hit, but only time will
> > tell.
> >
> > Scud used to be perfect 100% before the MPEG music was hooked up. In that one case,
> > that's why it got slower after 0.141.
>
> I thought MAME couldn't include MPEG for legal reasons. Did the patent run out? I
> don't remember the exact situation, tbh.

The less everyone knows and circulates is better for everyone... just enjoy the music!



R. Belmont
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: Master O]
#309811 - 06/04/13 05:14 PM


Trust me, it's fine.

If there's going to be a fuss raised every time I push *that* envelope, Naoki's going to be depressed for a very long time ;-)



AeroCityMayor
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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: R. Belmont]
#309823 - 06/05/13 12:14 AM


> Trust me, it's fine.
>
> If there's going to be a fuss raised every time I push *that* envelope, Naoki's going
> to be depressed for a very long time ;-)

Me too!

Only 14 years left and counting



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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: Ziggy100]
#309826 - 06/05/13 02:16 AM


> ..sounds like they're trying to farm off the graphics rendering to a separate
> core/cores.
>
> Quad Cores will finally come into their own I guess.

Not as far as I'm aware.



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Re: 4th Gen i7 MAME benchmarks 4.8ghz Overclock new [Re: Master O]
#309841 - 06/05/13 02:19 PM


> I thought MAME couldn't include MPEG for legal reasons. Did the patent run out?

It's not just one patent, but I believe the relevant patents did.


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