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Midway HydroThunder
#292087 - 07/18/12 05:36 AM
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I have a pair of Midway games HydroThunders. They both have a problem with the video card and I have tried everything I could think of to get these games to work but there is a custom security chip on the video card that can't be found anymore and even though I have NOS cards that are exactly the same except for that chip, and I swapped that chip on to the new video card the game still won't work. So, I was thinking of maybe trying to get the MAME version to work and put that into the game cabinet and wire it up with a arcade to MAME controller. Do you think this will work? Has anyone been able to get Hydrothunder to work on MAME?
Thanks very much,
Russ
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Re: Midway HydroThunder
[Re: Uriahsky]
#292089 - 07/18/12 06:05 AM
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No and even after it does work it's extremely unlikely that you would ever get it working accurately with the controls or with correct force feedback. Not that I would miss that obnoxious force feedback. Most likely you didn't solder the chip on correctly. But are you sure that's the problem? The pal chip went bad on both of them simultaneously is what you are thinking? I would say there is no chance in that.
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Re: Midway HydroThunder
[Re: Smitdogg]
#292097 - 07/18/12 07:02 AM
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I hope I am wrong, because most anything else can be replaced, except that chip. They both didn't go bad at the same time, one went bad and it started with the 1 long 2 short beeps and I would turn it on and off a few times and it would come up, but after awhile it wouldn't even do that. Then the other one did the same thing with 1 long 2 short but wouldn't come up at all.
I put a socket on two new video cards and swapped that chip in and it did the same thing. 1 long 2 short. I put a socket on the old video card and put it in a Gauntlet which uses the same card but different chip. It worked just fine. I then soldered the chip on and triple checked with a microscope and it still wouldn't work.
I have two extra motherboards, RAM, CPU, Hard drives, etc. and nothing made a difference.
I still hope I am wrong but I don't know what else to try.
I can put a Dreamcast in there but that only lasts a few months before dieing.
I contacted about ten different people/companies who were involved with the manufacture of that game and no one had any answers or clues.
So the MAME version is flaky?
Any ideas?
Thanks
Russ
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Re: Midway HydroThunder
[Re: Uriahsky]
#292099 - 07/18/12 07:15 AM
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It doesn't work at all in mame, you can forget about that as an option in the near future. Even if it was emulated I'm not sure a PC exists yet that could run it full speed in mame. Was there a time when one of the cards worked and you swapped it between machines OK? You're probably right, I've heard of them going bad, just not 2 at once, but as you said that wasn't the case, so... We should probably get one of the pals to Charles to try and read out and then he could make copies and make a fortune. 
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Re: Midway HydroThunder
[Re: Uriahsky]
#292100 - 07/18/12 07:26 AM
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Anyway I have one of them here, don't know if it works or not. I'll see if Charles can read it out. If he can then replacements could be made. That's not going to happen quickly though. In fact he might not figure it out at all.
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| Naoki |
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Reged: 11/10/09
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Posts: 1998
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Re: Midway HydroThunder
[Re: Uriahsky]
#292108 - 07/18/12 11:43 AM
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Why does everyone talk about security chips on these voodoo cards? I mean, wouldn't that be a video bios?
I got Offroad thunder to start loading on a custom PC with a generic Voodoo2 card with no isuse other than the fact I had a blank screen since no monitor I have supports 24khz
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On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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Re: Midway HydroThunder
[Re: Naoki]
#292122 - 07/18/12 03:07 PM
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> Why does everyone talk about security chips on these voodoo cards? I mean, wouldn't
> that be a video bios?
>
> I got Offroad thunder to start loading on a custom PC with a generic Voodoo2 card
> with no isuse other than the fact I had a blank screen since no monitor I have
> supports 24khz
From what little I know about these cards and what I have learned that chip is involved with security and mapping the controls I think? I talked to the guy who designed the Diago pcb that the video card is plugs into. He told me the cards came from Quantum3d already setup. He said it was a black box that handled security. I am not sure what that means but I think they told him certain signals would be put out and the Diago had to resolve them. Others have told me you can get cards with the Gauntlet chip to work but you won't have controls.
Also, I think 3D cards don't have a bios. They look for the 2D card for the BIOS. Maybe this is why you can't find any firmware upgrade BIOS for a 3DFX 3D only card. I think on Hydro the 2D might have been done by the Diago card. because the 3D card doesn't really kick in until the game actually starts but you do see a boot screen on the game.
All of the other Vegas games use the Gauntlet version of the card which ends in 02. That card is considered unsecured. They can all swap between the games without changing that chip.
The card, a quantum 3D 90-2440 is very similar to a Quantum 3D S-12 card but they removed the 2D pass through and a few other things. I almost bought one on ebay but I knew it won't work but I should have bought it anyway.
There is very little info on that card and what it actually does. My motherboard always gives me 1 long 2 short beeps which points to the lack of a Video ROM BIOS but I am not sure what that means. Maybe they put something in there to act as a BIOS or bypass the BIOS check. I just don't know.
I will pay someone to help me bypass that chip. But I think my two Xilinx XC9572 chips might be bad so they won't work as a sacrifice for someone to decap or reset the fuse or what ever. I need a working card.
Thanks very much,
Russ
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| Naoki |
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Reged: 11/10/09
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Posts: 1998
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Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Midway HydroThunder
[Re: Uriahsky]
#292123 - 07/18/12 03:17 PM
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Well, it would make sense that the BIOS on the motherboard is different, since all bioses will moan without a 2d card and the only video card is the 3DFX as far as I know. Maybe the cards have a 2D bios for the motherboard, I don't know. Try running the game on a slot-based pentium 3 motherboard or any 440X motherboard with the same PCI cards and see if it boots into the game I'd suggest.
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On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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Re: Midway HydroThunder
[Re: Naoki]
#292124 - 07/18/12 03:26 PM
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> Why does everyone talk about security chips on these voodoo cards? I mean, wouldn't
> that be a video bios?
>
> I got Offroad thunder to start loading on a custom PC with a generic Voodoo2 card
> with no isuse other than the fact I had a blank screen since no monitor I have
> supports 24khz
One more thing,
I may be wrong, but I think if you got Offroad to run off a PC and you plugged directly from the PC into a VGA monitor it should have shown you a picture. I think the med res, 24khz is converted by the Magic Bus card, ie, the Diago pcb. The 3D card is plugged into the Magic Bus card and the magic bus card outputs to the arcade monitor at medium resolution.
Did you try it that way? I know you have to have the Com Port 1 cable plugged into the Diago pcb or you will get an error and it won't run.
When I try on mine I get a screen that is loading game data but hangs and won't complete. That is when I use the Gauntlet card directly into a VGA monitor.
Thanks again,
Russ
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| Naoki |
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Reged: 11/10/09
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Posts: 1998
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Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Midway HydroThunder
[Re: Uriahsky]
#292137 - 07/18/12 05:21 PM
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> > Why does everyone talk about security chips on these voodoo cards? I mean, wouldn't
> > that be a video bios?
> >
> > I got Offroad thunder to start loading on a custom PC with a generic Voodoo2 card
> > with no isuse other than the fact I had a blank screen since no monitor I have
> > supports 24khz
>
>
> One more thing,
>
> I may be wrong, but I think if you got Offroad to run off a PC and you plugged
> directly from the PC into a VGA monitor it should have shown you a picture. I think
> the med res, 24khz is converted by the Magic Bus card, ie, the Diago pcb. The 3D card
> is plugged into the Magic Bus card and the magic bus card outputs to the arcade
> monitor at medium resolution.
Medium res is 24Khz, no conversion is done.
> Did you try it that way? I know you have to have the Com Port 1 cable plugged into
> the Diago pcb or you will get an error and it won't run.
I never said I had all the hardware, I just made a PC and tried to see how far I'd get.
> When I try on mine I get a screen that is loading game data but hangs and won't
> complete. That is when I use the Gauntlet card directly into a VGA monitor.
>
> Thanks again,
> Russ
...The harddrive sounds bad if it's hanging on the loading screen..
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On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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Re: Midway HydroThunder
[Re: Naoki]
#292140 - 07/18/12 07:24 PM
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I might have misstated the monitor reference. I think the game comes out of the PC as VGA. Even Hydro Thunder comes out of the black computer as VGA then it goes into the Magic Bus card or Diago card and that converts it to medium res. 24khz.
So, I think, if you can get Off Road to run on a generic PC plugged into a VGA using a 3D card you should get a picture unless it is looking for security or something else.
Does that sound right?
I did try my Hydro video card in about three other motherboards and I always got the 1 long 2 short beeps and a blank screen.
I am going to try a Win95 setup and see if I can load the drivers and get the Gauntlet card to work. If that works then I will try the Hydro and that might give me another clue.
Thanks again,
Russ
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| Naoki |
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Reged: 11/10/09
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Posts: 1998
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Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Midway HydroThunder
[Re: Uriahsky]
#292194 - 07/19/12 02:53 PM
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> I might have misstated the monitor reference. I think the game comes out of the PC as
> VGA. Even Hydro Thunder comes out of the black computer as VGA then it goes into the
> Magic Bus card or Diago card and that converts it to medium res. 24khz.
>
> So, I think, if you can get Off Road to run on a generic PC plugged into a VGA using
> a 3D card you should get a picture unless it is looking for security or something
> else.
>
> Does that sound right?
No, the video card outputs 24khz, my LCD tells me so. Thus the i/o board does no conversion.
> I did try my Hydro video card in about three other motherboards and I always got the
> 1 long 2 short beeps and a blank screen.
>
> I am going to try a Win95 setup and see if I can load the drivers and get the
> Gauntlet card to work. If that works then I will try the Hydro and that might give me
> another clue.
> Thanks again,
> Russ
Yeah, try it out, just use generic voodoo 2 drives and the dxdiag test
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On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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