| Naoki |
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Re: Combined build
[Re: CTOJAH]
#285587 - 05/08/12 09:45 PM
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How about you think about other people. The amount of "I hate this so it should be removed" I've seen on this one thread is amazing. People thinking only about themselves. If you want them removed, download the source and remove it from YOUR OWN BUILD and quit moaning. I'm not saying I like or even care about the mech games, but damn, you don't hear me whining how I believe it should be removed, I just shrug my shoulders and move on. It isn't like it's the end of the world.
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On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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| mesk |
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@ the arcade
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Re: Combined build
[Re: CTOJAH]
#285589 - 05/08/12 10:11 PM
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They are only removed cause they do not work.I also use QMC2 and do not have them filtered out.Not sure if QMC has added that feature yet.
Anyways even though they dont really bother me,I understand how they may bother others.We all have our own little issues,or things that bother us
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Re: Combined build
[Re: LazyCat]
#285592 - 05/08/12 10:19 PM
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> For end-user, compiling GNU C/C++ based projects is the same thing as installing
> software on Windows, just instead of pressing "install" button you type "make", and
> that's how user "installs" software. Easy.
>
> MAME should not release any official binaries, just make sure it's easy for the end
> user to compile their custom build where they can exclude all those games and
> features they do not want.
>
> Why make yourself a problem with releasing any binaries when you can leave the
> problem to end-user, which will not be a problem at all if you make it simple enough,
> it would be very universal solution.
Although the result would be very 90s-ish, I understand this sentiment. Yet....a factor in the life of MAME is the user base (the devs like that, and want, people to use it), and it would dramatically drop if the average person had to build it every time. I know I wouldn't, and Headkaze's compile utility is pretty easy to use.
For me to chime in on this topic means it's that close to a clusterfuck. Give it a rest, yo.
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Re: Combined build
[Re: Robbbert]
#285607 - 05/08/12 10:47 PM
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I'm all for there being a combined MAME and MESS build.
If you want me to give some reasons, I can come up with two.
First reason comes out of one of the responses from etabeta to NLS.
As etabeta writes, "sub-builds" are not possible because,
"if you don't build the whole tree, you could break some dependence".
However, this also means using the now unified source tree to build
the "sub-build" MAME could break some dependence for MESS.
This means building and releasing MAME separate from MESS causes
extra work needed to be done when it comes to releasing MESS.
Releasing both as a unified build would mean developing both together
and catching that breakage when it happens.
Second, it doesn't look good if MAME is not able to provide a unified
build while at the same time you can find it at the blog of an
independent developer.
As to whether or not it should have everything, pinball and poker
machines, I think it should have what MAME and MESS has combined.
What that is, should of course be up to the devs.
Go MAME!
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Re: Combined build
[Re: Naoki]
#285621 - 05/08/12 11:28 PM
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>> ...download the source and remove it from YOUR OWN BUILD and quit moaning.
<<
Depends on how simple it is. If you could make such build just by typing, say: "make -no-mech"
...then your comment would be fair, but if it's not that simple then moaning seem fair too, because it can be that simple and then everyone could be happy. So it turns out it's the moaning that leads to improvement, while resignation leads to stagnation.
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| Sune |
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Connected
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Never mind
[Re: etabeta]
#285624 - 05/08/12 11:41 PM
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It just works..didn't think it would work. 
S
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Re: Combined build
[Re: LazyCat]
#285626 - 05/08/12 11:49 PM
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>>
Depends on how simple it is. If you could make such build just by typing, say: "make -no-mech"
...then your comment would be fair, but if it's not that simple then moaning seem fair too, because it can be that simple and then everyone could be happy. So it turns out it's the moaning that leads to improvement, while resignation leads to stagnation.
<<
Stop being lazy and selfish. You have all in your hands to make your own build without the games you don't like.
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Re: Combined build
[Re: Mbit]
#285629 - 05/08/12 11:57 PM
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>> First reason comes out of one of the responses from etabeta to NLS. As etabeta writes, "sub-builds" are not possible because, "if you don't build the whole tree, you could break some dependence".
<<
That's not a reason. Reason must have purpose to serve, goal to achieve. Your goal is to make combined build, and the reason is: you have to make combined build if you wanna make combined build. Your reason and the goal are the same, so it's non-sense, you have to tell us why do you want to make a combined build in the first place, what purpose "combined build" is supposed to serve?
>> Second, it doesn't look good if MAME is not able to provide a unified build while at the same time you can find it at the blog of an independent developer.
<<
What purpose is that reason supposed to serve?
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Re: Combined build
[Re: Ramirez]
#285632 - 05/09/12 12:11 AM
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>> Stop being lazy and selfish. You have all in your hands to make your own build without the games you don't like.
<<
Why selfish? I actually wanna make it simple for everyone.
It's not simple to make custom build. There is some "tiny.mak" file which is supposed to serve the purpose, but I doubt even the guy who invented and design it could say that thing is easy to use.
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| redk9258 |
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Re: Combined build
[Re: LazyCat]
#285634 - 05/09/12 12:18 AM
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Why in the fuck would you want to put users through all of that shit (setup.exe), when you can just decompress the exe file and run it? It works fine the way it is... either as MAME, MESS or combined. If you want fucked up custom builds, then YOU change the source code and build it yourself. Nothing that is 'extra' in MAME causes any problems. If you don't want to use artwork, etc., just don't use any.
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Re: Combined build
[Re: LazyCat]
#285635 - 05/09/12 12:25 AM
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> >> First reason comes out of one of the responses from etabeta to NLS. As etabeta
> writes, "sub-builds" are not possible because, "if you don't build the whole tree,
> you could break some dependence".
> <
> Your goal is to make combined build, and the reason is: you have to make combined
> build if you wanna make combined build. Your reason and the goal are the same, so
> it's non-sense, you have to tell us why do you want to make a combined build in the
> first place, what purpose "combined build" is supposed to serve?>>
I think that the confusion is that the original poster is suggesting that providing combined builds would help to ensure that changes in the source tree that were MAME or MESS specific would compile for both MAME and MESS build flavors. Thus the goal to achieve is greater robustness of the MAME/MESS code by testing combined builds more frequently.
That being said, I don't think the original poster realizes that combined builds are probably already tested in this way regularly, they're just not provided as downloadable, pre-built executables on the official download sites because of the other reasons pointed out in this thread.
So the goal, while commendable, is not likely to be furthered by combined builds.
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| NLS |
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Computing Nostalgia Adict
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Re: Combined build
[Re: Bryan Ischo]
#285637 - 05/09/12 12:56 AM
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> That being said, I don't think the original poster realizes that combined builds are
> probably already tested in this way regularly, they're just not provided as
> downloadable, pre-built executables on the official download sites because of the
> other reasons pointed out in this thread.
Well if that is true, then most of not all of "the other reasons pointed out" are >NULL.
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NLS
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Re: Combined build
[Re: Bryan Ischo]
#285647 - 05/09/12 02:47 AM
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>> I think that the confusion is that the original poster is suggesting that providing combined builds would help to ensure that changes in the source tree that were MAME or MESS specific would compile for both MAME and MESS build flavors. Thus the goal to achieve is greater robustness of the MAME/MESS code by testing combined builds more frequently.
<<
It still sounds like self-serving purpose. "Robustness" is too vague term, not sure what practical benefit is supposed to be and why is "increased robustness" desired in the first place. The more parts something has it becomes easier for it to fall apart, so I don't think MAME & MESS can possibly be more robust combined than separated.
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Re: Combined build
[Re: redk9258]
#285648 - 05/09/12 02:59 AM
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>> Why in the fuck would you want to put users through all of that shit (setup.exe), when you can just decompress the exe file and run it?
<<
You didn't read it properly. I said both *source code* and compiler can be distributed inside Windows binary, so to make it appear to user as simple as if they are installing some standard Windows application, while in fact when they press a button instead of installation there would be compilation.
The reason is that this would give everyone the kind of build they want, plus the build could be optimized for their particular CPU. Of course for this to work we first have to automatize "tiny.mak" thing or come up with some other method.
>> It works fine the way it is... either as MAME, MESS or combined. If you want fucked up custom builds, then YOU change the source code and build it yourself.
<<
I did not ask you to do anything for me. It seems pretty obvious everyone here would get rid of mech and mahjong, at least, if they could, so the option to make custom builds and reduce the size of the binary seem far more desirable than adding MESS to the whole bloat and increasing the size of the binary even more.
>> Nothing that is 'extra' in MAME causes any problems. If you don't want to use artwork, etc., just don't use any.
<<
All I'm really proposing here is to improve and automatize "tiny.mak" thing, an extra feature that does not cause any problems. If you don't want it, just don't use it.
Anyway, what do you say is the purpose combined MAME+MESS build is supposed to serve?
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Re: Combined build
[Re: NLS]
#285657 - 05/09/12 04:05 AM
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Keep in mind that what I wrote in my other post is an assumption.
I assume that MAME and MESS developers build the 'other version' of their code before checking it in, and often or always build the combined build also. I would be surprised if they don't since it's kind of a fundamental rule of software development that you check all reasonable build flavors before submitting a change.
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Re: Combined build
[Re: LazyCat]
#285660 - 05/09/12 04:30 AM
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Nah. I'll stay with what we have.
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I’m convinced Mario is a hobo.
He wakes up everyday in the same clothes, runs around in sewers, and collects coins for a living.
At the end of the day, he uses the coins to buy mushrooms
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Re: Combined build
[Re: Bryan Ischo]
#285684 - 05/09/12 09:09 AM
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> Keep in mind that what I wrote in my other post is an assumption.
>
> I assume that MAME and MESS developers build the 'other version' of their code before
> checking it in, and often or always build the combined build also. I would be
> surprised if they don't since it's kind of a fundamental rule of software development
> that you check all reasonable build flavors before submitting a change.
assumption is of course correct when you refer to developers which work on chips/components shared by both arcade and consoles/computers: usually code is already tested to be working on both projects before being added. still different devs might prefer to work in different ways: there are people working with a single binary, testing all changes in both projects at once, and there are people which first make sure that things work in MAME (or MESS, depending on which side makes more extensive use of the component being worked on), and when the code is good enough for these they pass to test the changes on the other side.
anyway, it's very easy to have regressions crawling in, no matter if you use combined builds or split ones: when you touch a component shared by many systems (say ~100 different arcade and home systems), you cannot really test *all* of them extensively... you select the systems you think are good testcases and you cross your fingers that nothing else breaks in the others. and here it enters the importance of having regular updates (and even a public git mirror) for people to test changes and report possible regressions.
if a regression appears in some untested system/game, then you have a new testcase to add for next time you work on that component 
the whole thing, anyway, has not much to do with the availability of an official combined exe, though, which I thought was the subject of the thread...
developers already knows how to build their own combined build, if they want to, since they already compile their own code and a combined build only requires to add 3 simple files which just include mame.mak/mess.mak/mame.lst/mess.lst...
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Re: Never mind
[Re: Sune]
#285685 - 05/09/12 09:15 AM
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it's mostly Micko's work (he made most of the cleanups in the makefiles and added support to easily import driver lists) and it works like a charm: you can have as many targets as you want
1. you create a new #target# folder inside src/ and the proper #target#.mak (which is probably the most elaborated part, but it has been done already  )
2. you include the games you want in the #target#.lst (including them either one by one, or importing the whole mame/mess.lst, or removing some games/systems if you don't want them)
3. then you launch "make TARGET=#target#" and you are done, as long as you have updated the two trees when they are sync'd
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Re: Combined build
[Re: NLS]
#285686 - 05/09/12 09:47 AM
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> Guys I think you moved away from the thread's topic.
>
> The topic is about "combined build" (so it cannot even mean the source, as the source
> is already more or less one).
>
> Also I think with 10-20 users participating in the thread, a vote would be stupid.
> Hell even if all EmuChat voted, it wouldn't mean anything. AFAIK thousands use MAME
> (and maybe 1/10th of them also use MESS - also I hope 1/2 of them KNOW MESS at
> least).
>
> As a member of the team (?) pointed out, there are some practical issues for this to
> become reality yet ...that honestly I don't see and I asked more "educated in the
> subject" people and weirdly enough agree with me, but anyway, the thing is, the devs
> are the devs and until someone that is a MAME team dev steps up and says "I will
> handle the unified build and produce it for all major updates", then for us is not
> much to do. Yelling doesn't help either (I usually tend to be pretty vocal).
>
> I am that close to make a bet that we will start having an official unified build
> within the next six months, but knowing that there are people that actually push
> against it (for reasons I am not sure are valid), I will not make that bet.
>
> I'd love more expert opinion from "my" side (I know and you know that at least one
> voice is not interested to be heard here), but in any case I've done what I can.
> (which is not much)
my impression is that you tend to presume too much (or so I interpret the fact that you see politics whenever someone has an opinion which differ from yours) and I still have to see you offering a good reason to have a single exe officially released.
Haze's beloved argument about higher advertising thanks of the usage of MAME brand for the emulation in MESS is not such a good reason: while it might be fine when referring to enlarge the userbase (to make easier to spot bugs), it is fundamentally flawed when referring to enlarge the number of devs.
good developers keep being attracted by MESS even if it's not MAME, and if they find arcade hardware they are interested in, they work on it despite MAME being separate from MESS (an example? Sandro Ronco, which has done a great job with a lot of portable computers as a MESSdev and which has also started to work on MAME, when he has found something he was interested in)
the hard part is to find people interested in working on MAME/MESS, and usually it's not the name of the project to attract them or push them away
and mind that I'm not completely against the release of a combined exe (for the record, it was me who pointed Haze to Micko's approach, which is considerably easier than previous build instructions that Haze was suggesting to users, so that he had a simpler way to manage his beloved UME), but in my opinion we should first fix the other concerns about mametesters and bandwidth, and then we should start preparing a very extensive documentation to explain users how systems requiring software (i.e. most consoles and computers) should be used.
given the number of people still not using multiple carts in megatech because they need to separately mount the carts, instead of just launching the single games, I fear that a lot of users could be discouraged at first with consoles and computers: systems with additional software are slightly more complicated to launch than basic MAME usage (the suggested usage mode is to add proper media switch and then the software name, because computer emulation is almost worthless if you can't run programs you wrote as a kid, when you still have them, and software lists are a privileged launching mode but not the only one and it should not be presented as such).
as a result, an abrupt inclusion of computers and consoles in MAME, with no explanations on what to do with them, might lead people to think that consoles don't work because they don't give you a list of games to launch (depending on the frontend you use), or that computers don't work because you mount a tape and it does not autostart...
p.s. the above is purely my personal pov, other devs probably have very different opinions
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Re: Combined build
[Re: LazyCat]
#285689 - 05/09/12 09:51 AM
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> Also MESS is not separated from MAME completely as it could be, like Pacman driver
> is. All these things I say could be separated from MAME core just like game drivers
> are.
it is. but you use very outdated source code and so you can't know it.
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| NLS |
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Computing Nostalgia Adict
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Reged: 10/28/03
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Posts: 76
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Re: Combined build
[Re: etabeta]
#285691 - 05/09/12 10:19 AM
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> my impression is that you tend to presume too much (or so I interpret the fact that
> you see politics whenever someone has an opinion which differ from yours) and I still
I see politics and I see them both sides.
> have to see you offering a good reason to have a single exe officially released.
Not my job. From my personal (user) view is like explaining why B is after A in the alphabet.
That said I can think of various reasons (good or bad - seems the classification is too SUBJECTIVE), I will not repeat any in a thread already 100+ posts long.
> the hard part is to find people interested in working on MAME/MESS, and usually it's
> not the name of the project to attract them or push them away
> and mind that I'm not completely against the release of a combined exe (for the
> record, it was me who pointed Haze to Micko's approach, which is considerably easier
> than previous build instructions that Haze was suggesting to users, so that he had a
> simpler way to manage his beloved UME), but in my opinion we should first fix the
> other concerns about mametesters and bandwidth, and then we should start preparing a
> very extensive documentation to explain users how systems requiring software (i.e.
> most consoles and computers) should be used.
> given the number of people still not using multiple carts in megatech because they
> need to separately mount the carts, instead of just launching the single games, I
> fear that a lot of users could be discouraged at first with consoles and computers:
> systems with additional software are slightly more complicated to launch than basic
> MAME usage (the suggested usage mode is to add proper media switch and then the
> software name, because computer emulation is almost worthless if you can't run
> programs you wrote as a kid, when you still have them, and software lists are a
> privileged launching mode but not the only one and it should not be presented as
> such).
I was about to say that your points are more or less valid, when I realized that you seem to use interchangeably users and devs. If devs cannot see behind a curtain I don't think they are good devs anyway (I mean the source is there, it is already multi-modular, I know there are devs that just touch VERY specific modules and have no idea of how others work, so what would change in this? Nothing). As for users, I cannot see a single user "scared" away by a combined exe - plain and simply.
> as a result, an abrupt inclusion of computers and consoles in MAME, with no
> explanations on what to do with them, might lead people to think that consoles don't
> work because they don't give you a list of games to launch (depending on the frontend
> you use), or that computers don't work because you mount a tape and it does not
> autostart...
So you are saying that it is a matter of good... documentation? Your four lines were enough actually - you did explain the difference already. I think we can clean up your comment and explain everybody with lower IQ than mean Homo Sapiens that computers emulated in MAME(SS) work a bit differently than consoles emulated. Not much, just a bit. Because you know... most consoles boot directly to a game while computers mostly don't. Something that I think a 10 year old already realizes...
> p.s. the above is purely my personal pov, other devs probably have very different
> opinions
Sure. Same here and I am not even a (mame) dev.
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NLS
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| Naoki |
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Reged: 11/10/09
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Posts: 1998
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Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Combined build
[Re: LazyCat]
#285693 - 05/09/12 11:21 AM
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If I could modify the MAME source to include a few bootlegs of DDR stuff and make my own build with only the Konami 573 driver, then you can't moan about making your own build especially since I am the worst person to talk to about coding, even BASIC. Just sit down and read the code.
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On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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Re: Combined build
[Re: etabeta]
#285696 - 05/09/12 12:14 PM
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> and mind that I'm not completely against the release of a combined exe
> , but in my opinion we should first fix the
> other concerns about mametesters and bandwidth, and then we should start preparing a
> very extensive documentation to explain users how systems requiring software (i.e.
> most consoles and computers) should be used.
Thank you for clarifying things in your other posts.
I'm trying to learn more about how MAME development works
and you have been very helpful.
It's good to see the responsible path taken here.
So before there can be a merged build, there must first be
- Merged MAME Testers. Already in beta.
- Merged mirrors. Perhaps some more mirrors might be needed.
- Merged documentation. Hopefully this won't take to long.
It's good to see things like these aren't rushed,
but I hope they don't take too long either!
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Re: Combined build
[Re: NLS]
#285697 - 05/09/12 12:15 PM
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> So you are saying that it is a matter of good... documentation? Your four lines were
> enough actually - you did explain the difference already. I think we can clean up
> your comment and explain everybody with lower IQ than mean Homo Sapiens that
> computers emulated in MAME(SS) work a bit differently than consoles emulated. Not
> much, just a bit. Because you know... most consoles boot directly to a game while
> computers mostly don't. Something that I think a 10 year old already realizes...
>
I have wrote a pretty large howto manual for MESS, in the past, in answer to explicit requests by many friends which wanted to give MESS a try but were scared by the (supposed) additional difficulties. such difficulties were not related to the fact the exe was separate from MAME, or that they had to download it from a different website, but they were due to having to select both a system and a game.
I'm still quite disappointed that my howto guide got lost when MESS wiki died, but I think I know what I'm talking about, given the number of people I have guided through MESS basic usage...
so yes, I believe that good documentation is needed for a project as large as MESS is (even more now that we support configurable slot options).
no matter how smart you can be, you have to take into account that a lot of people apparently need more explanations about how things work. many users don't use megatech multicarts in MAME because they don't seem to know how to (maybe it's not documented enough? maybe it's too difficult compared to launching directly the single game?), and a lot of MESS users have asked in the past why a C64 tape was not starting after mounted.
in your eyes this probably means that our audience is less than 9 years old, but in my eyes it just means that a better documentation is needed. Feel free to disagree, but don't expect to convince me.
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Re: Combined build
[Re: etabeta]
#285699 - 05/09/12 01:09 PM
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>> it is. but you use very outdated source code and so you can't know it.
<<
That's great, really is. Can't see how it was done exactly, but I clap my paws to no more #IFDEFs. Who did that?
I actually refer to more than dozen MAME builds from 0.34 to 0.141, as that was the latest when I started my re-writes, I guess these changes happened in 0.142. What a day!
So, as I gather the reason to have combined build is just about MESS developers wanting to step a little bit under the spotlight. No any practical benefit for either developers or users, except hope this might bring a few more testers. I think who cares already knows about MESS, but people will not use MESS instead of SNES unless it is actually better. MESS in MAME or its accuracy will not bring new users, only speed, compatibility and simplicity might, with or without MAME just the same.
However, most of the simplicity points you loose just by being multiple instead of single console emulator, unlike MAME. It's because when people are interested in arcade games they are interested in all or most of them, but with consoles everyone has only one or few they care about, so all the rest of the stuff is more like "cancer" rather than just an "option". The rest of what is left of those simplicity points you will lose by merging it with MAME, and even if you somehow make it more simple than it was before there is still no any particular reason why someone who want's to play SNES would download 100mb binary with all sorts of crap that is of no interest to them and spend days on configuration when they could play SNES in matter of minutes.
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Re: Combined build
[Re: LazyCat]
#285700 - 05/09/12 01:26 PM
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> Someone who want's to play SNES would download 100mb binary with all sorts of crap that
> is of no interest to them and spend days on configuration when they could play SNES in
> matter of minutes.
Nobody is being forced to download anything. If they want to download some other emulator, that is their choice. Your arguments serve no purpose.
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Re: Combined build
[Re: Robbbert]
#285701 - 05/09/12 01:47 PM
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>> Nobody is being forced to download anything. If they want to download some other emulator, that is their choice. Your arguments serve no purpose.
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No, it's the choice you are making for everyone. Forcing is exactly what you are doing. You are forcing people interested only in MAME to download MESS. You are forcing people interested only in SNES to download arcade, gambling, mahjong and other crap.
My arguments serve the purpose to explain to you how forcing will not bring new users, you will only loose them.
Now, lets hear some of your arguments:
- What purpose is combined MAME+MESS build supposed to serve?
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Re: Combined build
[Re: Naoki]
#285702 - 05/09/12 02:21 PM
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>> If I could modify the MAME source to include a few bootlegs of DDR stuff and make my own build with only the Konami 573 driver, then you can't moan about making your own build especially since I am the worst person to talk to about coding, even BASIC. Just sit down and read the code.
<<
Yes, but put our efforts together and we could make it simpler and more general so anyone can do it.
That's the point of the public project, everyone chips a little bit for the benefit of all, not for themselves.
Look, if they gonna force us to download 100mb binary just to play Pacman, the need to make a custom build seem higher than ever. All I suggest is few compiler options to make possible to get rid of, not individual games for now, but whole categories like: neogeo, mech, pinball, mahjong, mess...
So, if you wanna only MAME & NEOGEO you compile with:
> "make -no-mech -no-pin -no-mahjong -no-mess"
You wanna all, then just type "make". Why not?
My build can already do something like that, but it's not me who did it, the guy who made GP32 port did, still I can tell you it's pretty simple thing to do. Or at last was in 0.37, not sure if I could easily translate it to the most recent MAME since I am not familiar with any of the changes in the last year. But, I sure will not even attempt it if all I get in return for proposing it is a spit in a face, instead of bacon. I prefer bacon, meow!
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Re: Combined build
[Re: etabeta]
#285703 - 05/09/12 02:49 PM
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> in your eyes this probably means that our audience is less than 9 years old, but in
> my eyes it just means that a better documentation is needed. Feel free to disagree,
> but don't expect to convince me.
But I don't disagree. I am saying that this is a minor obstacle.
I am sure that many people (maybe even you that have done it before) will jump in and fix-merge the docs.
There are even full "How-To" web pages now that the projects are split. I suppose it will be the same when they are merged.
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Re: Combined build
[Re: LazyCat]
#285704 - 05/09/12 02:54 PM
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> Now, lets hear some of your arguments:
> - What purpose is combined MAME+MESS build supposed to serve?
- Well it will bring two projects that are... actually one, together.
- Also it will make MESS work (not MESS as a project since it will be part of MAME guts) public to everybody that "misses" it somehow today. Talking about users and devs.
- Will make the whole project a tiny bit more "magnificent".
I am just mentioning some of what is seen with the eye of the enthusiast USER. I somehow believe some devs can find more reasons.
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Re: Combined build
[Re: LazyCat]
#285705 - 05/09/12 03:01 PM
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> Look, if they gonna force us to download 100mb binary just to play Pacman, the need to
> make a custom build seem higher than ever. All I suggest is few compiler options to make
> possible to get rid of, not individual games for now, but whole categories like: neogeo,
> mech, pinball, mahjong, mess...
This would mean that the compile filter (that *.lst I've seen in docs) is able to use MAMEUI folders or something. (would be interesting)
Yet this is different from what this thread talks about.
BTW I have a different question (since you mentioned "100MB binary")... I always wondered (much before this merge talk), what is the point of building a "monolithic" exe and not have some of the main modules as separate dll in a subfolder? Would possibly greatly help with end-user updates as possibly only SOME of the DLL change. Or indeed help with making what you ask. If a user has only some of the dll, he will be able to use MAME but with reduced functionality (eg. no "mechanical.dll" - although I am not saying I know what kind of dll "split" should be done, I am just giving an example).
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Re: Combined build
[Re: LazyCat]
#285706 - 05/09/12 03:06 PM
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>>
No, it's the choice you are making for everyone. Forcing is exactly what you are doing. You are forcing people interested only in MAME to download MESS. You are forcing people interested only in SNES to download arcade, gambling, mahjong and other crap.
>>
Don't be silly. You're just trolling. This thread is to discuss what interest may exist in an unofficial combined build - nothing more. The official MAME and MESS separate builds will be around for a long time yet. If you don't like my unofficial build, don't download it. Simple. If you just want to play SNES, download BSNES or some other purpose-built emulator. You argue for the sake of argument.
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My arguments serve the purpose to explain to you how forcing will not bring new users, you will only loose them.
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Not my problem. Users can do whatever they wish with their emulation needs.
>>
Now, lets hear some of your arguments:
- What purpose is combined MAME+MESS build supposed to serve?
<<
To gauge whatever level of interest may exist. That's all.
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Re: Combined build
[Re: Robbbert]
#285711 - 05/09/12 04:19 PM
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>> This thread is to discuss what interest may exist in an unofficial combined build - nothing more.
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You are talking about some private build of yours, that is never even supposed to be available for download on mamedev.org?
Why do you call it "unofficial", it sounds as if it's gonna turn to "official" any moment now, why are you simply not referring to it as your "private build"?
>> You argue for the sake of argument.
<<
Ughh. I argued because I though this was about official release, or soon to be official.
If I managed to misunderstand this topic twice in a row then I am bloody stupid for that, sorry to everyone. But then, why in the world anyone even cares about this?!?
Edited by LazyCat (05/09/12 04:40 PM)
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: Combined build
[Re: LazyCat]
#285722 - 05/09/12 07:08 PM
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And, as my first act of power, we lock this thread.
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