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There is something *very* wrong in the Robotron driver
#274894 - 02/03/12 03:14 AM
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I just hit what might've been the 'enforcer bug' - while being in the top part of the screen, just left of middle, and firing up-left!!
Of course, I was stomping it's fucking ASS with at least 600k (I was on difficulty level 5, even), and I don't know how many dudes in store. (The last time it reset, the situation was similar.)
Also, another phenomenon that is quite disgusting, is this 'swoosh' together if you're too close to a baddie. I'm thinking it's related to refresh.
I played original hardware last week, and while I think it was still there, it wasn't ANYwhere near this bad.
This was on 144u5, so unless something has seriously changed in the last two releases (not to mention these issues have been present for aeons), these seriously need looking at.
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Tafoid |
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: There is something *very* wrong in the Robotron driver
[Re: mogli]
#274898 - 02/03/12 03:46 AM
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> I just hit what might've been the 'enforcer bug' - while being in the top part of the
> screen, just left of middle, and firing up-left!!
>
> Of course, I was stomping it's fucking ASS with at least 600k (I was on difficulty
> level 5, even), and I don't know how many dudes in store. (The last time it reset,
> the situation was similar.)
>
> Also, another phenomenon that is quite disgusting, is this 'swoosh' together of
> you're too close to a baddie. I'm thinking it's related to refresh.
>
> I played original hardware last week, and while I think it was still there, it was
> ANYwhere near this bad.
>
> This was on 144u5, so unless something has seriously changed in the last two releases
> (not to mention these issues have been present for aeons), these seriously need
> looking at.
So, it's resetting the game.. crashing MAME.. what exactly is it doing?
I've heard sporadic reports over the years of this game resetting during play, but no one could effectively reproduce it. I have also seen other players have resets in other game of the Street Fighter-type where it turned out that the controller the person has, when using a certain controller combination of movement buttons and timing, was effectively sending a keycode for "F2", which caused the reset. Given the intensity of the game and range of movement that rapidly changes, I would not be at all shocked to see that this is the cause of the resetting.
Your best bet would be to make sure when you play - you record it to an .INP file, so all the keystrokes can be saved and reproduced/replayed if you indeed get another reset.
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| italie |
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MAME owes italie many thank yous, hah
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Re: There is something *very* wrong in the Robotron driver
[Re: Tafoid]
#274901 - 02/03/12 04:20 AM
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> So, it's resetting the game.. crashing MAME.. what exactly is it doing?
>
> I've heard sporadic reports over the years of this game resetting during play, but no
> one could effectively reproduce it.
That's the new 2114 RAM emulation. Accurate and correct behavior.
//My story, sticking with it.
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Re: There is something *very* wrong in the Robotron driver
[Re: Tafoid]
#274920 - 02/03/12 06:18 AM
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It's re-setting. I was again too surprised to get a snap of where I was before the screen was completely snowed.
I have encountered the normally described enforcer bug before, but recently the resets have not remotely fit the parameters for that. It was only the second of two games, too. Could it be nvram-related?
My stick set-up is left = cardinal directions, and right = rgfd (from 'up', that's clockwise), so I seriously doubt it's that,or that alone. Oh, yes, I'm using an arcade control panel - so I'm definitely *not* pressing other buttons. But I hadn't though of doing in INP.
How do you explain the other issue - the 'baddie magnetic effect'? I've always noticed it, but someone on another forum actually verbalized before I have.
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Re: There is something *very* wrong in the Robotron driver
[Re: mogli]
#274925 - 02/03/12 06:50 AM
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That resetting issue with the "enforcer bug"? That's been a known issue since the game got released. It's an actual game issue and not a MAME bug. x.x;
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| Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: There is something *very* wrong in the Robotron driver
[Re: Tafoid]
#274944 - 02/03/12 07:31 AM
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> Your best bet would be to make sure when you play - you record it to an .INP file, so
> all the keystrokes can be saved and reproduced/replayed if you indeed get another
> reset.
Been thinking about this.
There's a source overlay somewhere that gives MAME the ability to do tool-assisted speedruns, rewinding... I swear I saw it somewhere. Can't remember the name. Maybe it never got released. Pretty sure it only worked with some games. Might not be a "legal" build.
Assuming you could use that until the game reset, then rewound, then created a savestate, then tried loading the savestate in normal MAME... then maybe you could make a repro case...
Very problematic though, easier just to tell someone to do an INP. I'd be worried about desyncs over that long a playtime though...
- Stiletto
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| CptGuapo |
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Re: There is something *very* wrong in the Robotron driver
[Re: Stiletto]
#275042 - 02/04/12 12:18 AM
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Would it be WolfMAME?
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"Mythology is what grownups believe, folklore is what they tell children and religion is both."
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| Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: There is something *very* wrong in the Robotron driver
[Re: CptGuapo]
#275096 - 02/04/12 08:31 AM
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> Would it be WolfMAME?
No, WolfMAME does INP recordings only pretty much, last time I checked.
I think this is it but it hasn't been updated in two years. I remembered it was hosted at code.google.com.
http://code.google.com/p/mame-rr/
Can't remember if this is a "illegal build" - if so someone please censor me. 
Since it's so old, it won't be useful in this case.
Also I misremembered - this only assists in recording videos, not tool-assisted speedruns and rewinding..
- Stiletto
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Re: There is something *very* wrong in the Robotron driver
[Re: TknoMncr]
#275173 - 02/05/12 06:14 AM
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> That resetting issue with the "enforcer bug"? That's been a known issue since the
> game got released. It's an actual game issue and not a MAME bug. x.x;
The enforcer bug is when an enforcer is in the lower right corner and you shoot it diagonal there is a 1 in 3000 chance the game will reset. The reason for the game resetting is there is a bug in the diagonal explosion code for enforcers. The memory below the screen holds the stack and an unclipped pixel can get 'drawn' into the stack causing the game to lock and the watchdog to kick in and reset the system.
So, maybe the particulars aren't so important. You just have to be in the right place and time and shooting diagonally (in whatever direction) at an enforcer.
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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So, again....
[Re: Tafoid]
#275272 - 02/06/12 01:28 AM
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How do you explain the other issue - the 'baddie magnetic effect'? I've always noticed it, but someone on another forum actually verbalized before I have.
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Alas, I didn't get an INP, because I was just messing about trying for a decent place in the TG tournament settings (level 5, 5 men, no extras - and had about 400k going on my last dude when this happened), but you can see where I'm shooting.
(( In WolfMAME, you have to go through the service menu every fucking time, so I wasn't using that build for practice.))
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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| italie |
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MAME owes italie many thank yous, hah
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Re: Here's an example.....
[Re: mogli]
#275299 - 02/06/12 05:17 AM
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> Alas, I didn't get an INP, because I was just messing about trying for a decent place
> in the TG tournament settings (level 5, 5 men, no extras - and had about 400k going
> on my last dude when this happened), but you can see where I'm shooting.
>
>
> (( In WolfMAME, you have to go through the service menu every fucking time, so I
> wasn't using that build for practice.))
My god, that actually does look like a ram failure emulation. I was just kidding the first time i said it...
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| *=/STARRIDER\=* |
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Looks like he just hit F3 mid game to me?. 
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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There is no law in the arena
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| italie |
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MAME owes italie many thank yous, hah
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Re: Here's an example.....
[Re: *=/STARRIDER\=*]
#275309 - 02/06/12 07:07 AM
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> Looks like he just hit F3 mid game to me?.
The error in question triggers the watchdog, which resets the game. Same as F3, or a RAM failure. Or pretty much ~any~ recoverable failure for that matter...
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Re: There is something *very* wrong in the Robotron driver
[Re: mogli]
#275325 - 02/06/12 10:51 AM
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You may want to check the following thread over at twingalaxies:
http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24713
The reset bug is discussed at some length, and I was called in to figure out why it was happening. I did, and even wrote a patch that seems to work. Then I found out that someone else had patched it years earlier as well.
Don Hodges
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That's very interesting....
[Re: Phantom DJ]
#276228 - 02/16/12 09:56 AM
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> You may want to check the following thread over at twingalaxies:
>
> http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24713
>
> The reset bug is discussed at some length, and I was called in to figure out why it
> was happening. I did, and even wrote a patch that seems to work. Then I found out
> that someone else had patched it years earlier as well.
>
> Don Hodges
Ah-haa. Doesn't seem the topic got farther than that, and obviously the patch isn't enabled in MAME, because they haven't updated WolfMAME. Whether it's allowed on new-rom'd original hardware, I don't know.
In your last post there, you said you had new information:
"I am also coming up with some more information on how the bug is triggered and will be posting that shortly."
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Re: There is something *very* wrong in the Robotron driver
[Re: Tafoid]
#276434 - 02/17/12 08:32 PM
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I own the real game and the "swoosh" you are talking about where a bad guy seems to almost "lunge" into your player to kill you happens to me all the time and it is very maddening but part of the game. Same with the enforcer bug.
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Re: There is something *very* wrong in the Robotron driver
[Re: kellyzz64]
#276527 - 02/19/12 04:57 AM
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> I own the real game and the "swoosh" you are talking about where a bad guy seems to
> almost "lunge" into your player to kill you happens to me all the time and it is very
> maddening but part of the game. Same with the enforcer bug.
I'm not contesting the enforcer bug, in general, just wondering whether the instance I mentioned initially could've really counted. I was shooting diagonally, but I was in the top middle of the screen. Impossible to hit a corner.
And when I played original hardware a couple weeks ago, the 'swoosh' wasn't that pronounced.
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