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Arctic Thunder CHD
#272037 - 01/02/12 11:59 PM
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Was this CHD ever dumped properly? Every disk and virtual drive I extract it to, it always comes up as taking up the entire drive (unlike the 8.4GB it should do) and the partition being readable, but corrupt beyond repair and non-bootable.
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Naoki]
#272038 - 01/03/12 12:06 AM
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If it ever gets emulated properly then we might know.
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Smitdogg]
#272042 - 01/03/12 12:20 AM
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> If it ever gets emulated properly then we might know.
Well, I'm believing it's not since it's just a Pentium III 733MHz computer with no security protection on it running Windows 2000.
It doesn't even seem to get to NTDETECT when booted on a PC (not virtual PC or that) and both me and a friend agreed the boot sector was bad, but all you can do is fix the MBR; Windows Setup, FIXBOOT, ERD, MSDaRT and many other tools report the disk partition as corrupt or unreadable, thus unfixable really.
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Naoki]
#272044 - 01/03/12 12:25 AM
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Do you know it is a standard NTFS file system? Maybe Windows tools aren't the thing you need.
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Naoki]
#272045 - 01/03/12 12:25 AM
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I ripped the drive but I think it was someone else who made the chd from the rip. There could have been an issue in that step or it might need its actual bios to be able to boot. Have you gotten other PC based games from mame to boot up in these computers?
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Smitdogg]
#272046 - 01/03/12 12:31 AM
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> I ripped the drive but I think it was someone else who made the chd from the rip.
> There could have been an issue in that step or it might need its actual bios to be
> able to boot. Have you gotten other PC based games from mame to boot up in these
> computers?
Sorta. I got Offroad Thunder and Hydro Thunder to boot at one stage as far as the pregame loader. The issue was that Ofroad Thunder demanded a 3DFX Voodoo card and when I tried Hydro Thunder yesterday it complained about missing hardware, presumably the RS-232 I/O board, the motherboard or possibly the fact that even the manual states that the custom OS won't detect anything if moved from it's preprogramed location so that it couldn't find the GFX, LAN or other hardware.
California chase I did manage to get it to do something, i.e I managed to get DOS to boot at minimum (On Oracle VirtualBox) but the game programs caused a Guru Meditation error. Real hardware said there was no OS. When I used my own drive of DOS on the PC with the calchase disk, the game program did nothing, although a few programs ran ok.
Edited by Naoki (01/03/12 12:36 AM)
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: redk9258]
#272047 - 01/03/12 12:33 AM
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It's a stock version of Windows 2000 Professional as far as I can see. The user accounts and pretty much a standard PC OS is on the drive so you could skip the game and use it as a proper OS, but it's a good point, though again, it appears to just be an NTFS file system.
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Naoki]
#272048 - 01/03/12 12:35 AM
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That's probably as far as any of them will go unless you have a really specific monitor. I have LCD, tv, PC crt, HD and so on monitors and none of the real hardware Thunders will boot on them.
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Smitdogg]
#272049 - 01/03/12 12:37 AM
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> That's probably as far as any of them will go unless you have a really specific
> monitor. I have LCD, tv, PC crt, HD and so on monitors and none of the real hardware
> Thunders will boot on them.
AFAIK Offroad and Hydro require connection to the I/O board, not the monitor directly, and I can't see why having a different monitor would stall a computer machine...
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Naoki]
#272050 - 01/03/12 12:40 AM
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Naoki]
#272051 - 01/03/12 12:41 AM
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So the CHD has Windows 2000 + the game in it?
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: redk9258]
#272052 - 01/03/12 12:49 AM
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> So the CHD has Windows 2000 + the game in it?
Yep. The CHD also has a DOS Batch installer for the game aswell, including C-Media Audio drivers, 3DFX Voodoo3 drivers and I think other drivers too. The main game itself nearly booted, but it needs a Voodoo card as my Win 7 64 Ultimate can make the file run, but it'll either say there's no glide3x.dll or (when such dll is added) will crash as there's no voodoo card in my PC.
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As part of my "Lets try fix this" process, I tried to do the standard recovery console approach, but as you see, partition errors prevents all.
I did actually scan for errors in Windows 7 and whilst it said there were errors, they were move and/or fixed, subsequent scans said there were no errors and all files seem to read correct..
EDIT: Oh yeah, the password was easy to get for this. Midway obviously didn't care about security really since the password is in the registry uncensored and unencrypted in text form.
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
Edited by Naoki (01/03/12 12:55 AM)
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Naoki]
#272055 - 01/03/12 01:00 AM
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I'm sure there is something that prevents running these games on any old PC. Is it possible that it has to match a NIC, tattooed MB bios or something?
At a place I used to work, we had some special software that was tied to the NIC in the PC. If you changed NICs it would cease to load. I'm not sure what would happen if the NIC died. I guess the company would have to come out and reload the software and tie it to a new NIC.
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: redk9258]
#272059 - 01/03/12 01:12 AM
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> I'm sure there is something that prevents running these games on any old PC. Is it
> possible that it has to match a NIC, tattooed MB bios or something?
>
> At a place I used to work, we had some special software that was tied to the NIC in
> the PC. If you changed NICs it would cease to load. I'm not sure what would happen if
> the NIC died. I guess the company would have to come out and reload the software and
> tie it to a new NIC.
It could be that, but then there's been a few revisions of the graphite board AFAIK. Quatum3D (the maker of the graphite) basically built to what was needed at that time. There's a few LAN drivers on the system however, aswell as various onboard and PCI soundcard drivers. It could be that the BIOS did something wacky, but again, it looks just like any old build of Win 2k
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Brainwave and Headdesk
[Re: Naoki]
#272066 - 01/03/12 02:06 AM
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Just to be certain it's the image, I'm gonna download the CHD from a different place and make sure mine isn't a dud or something
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Nope...
[Re: Naoki]
#272069 - 01/03/12 02:38 AM
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Seems almost impossible to find without certain common methods. Anyway, still the same issue.
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Re: Brainwave and Headdesk
[Re: Naoki]
#272070 - 01/03/12 02:44 AM
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I extracted the chd to a VHD file and you are correct, it is a NTFS files system with Windows 2000. I was mainly speaking of the game software being locked to the BIOS or NIC.
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Re: Brainwave and Headdesk
[Re: Naoki]
#272071 - 01/03/12 02:51 AM
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> Just to be certain it's the image, I'm gonna download the CHD from a different place
> and make sure mine isn't a dud or something
why would you need to do that when chdman can tell you if it's invalid or not?
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Re: Brainwave and Headdesk
[Re: redk9258]
#272072 - 01/03/12 02:52 AM
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It tried to run as I said on a Biostar intel Core2Do motherboard in 64-bit mode. What needs to run first though is the LAUNCHER.EXE in the %systemroot%\system32 folder. This presumable tries to run wincsm.exe which tries to communicate to the MagicBus I/O board over an RS-232 connection and then tries to load the SNOW.EXE app in %systemdrive%\Midway Games\Arctic Thunder\ directory....
I'm gonna see if I can forget the broken partition and make my own partition and clone the files and try to make the partition bootable there.
Edited by Naoki (01/03/12 02:57 AM)
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Re: Brainwave and Headdesk
[Re: B2K24]
#272073 - 01/03/12 02:53 AM
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I know, I thought of that after *doh*
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Naoki]
#272076 - 01/03/12 03:40 AM
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> It doesn't even seem to get to NTDETECT when booted on a PC (not virtual PC or that)
> and both me and a friend agreed the boot sector was bad, but all you can do is fix
> the MBR; Windows Setup, FIXBOOT, ERD, MSDaRT and many other tools report the disk
> partition as corrupt or unreadable, thus unfixable really.
That could easily be protection - boot sector and partition map could be stored in ROM and loaded some other way. I seem to recall some CD-based game kept file data on the CD but the directory structure elsewhere.
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Naoki]
#272093 - 01/03/12 06:42 AM
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> > So the CHD has Windows 2000 + the game in it?
>
> Yep. The CHD also has a DOS Batch installer for the game aswell, including C-Media
> Audio drivers, 3DFX Voodoo3 drivers and I think other drivers too. The main game
> itself nearly booted, but it needs a Voodoo card as my Win 7 64 Ultimate can make the
> file run, but it'll either say there's no glide3x.dll or (when such dll is added)
> will crash as there's no voodoo card in my PC.
About missing glide3x.dll, you could try nGlide (it emulates the glide library).
http://www.zeus-software.com/downloads/nglide
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#272135 - 01/03/12 07:34 PM
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> > It doesn't even seem to get to NTDETECT when booted on a PC (not virtual PC or
> that)
> > and both me and a friend agreed the boot sector was bad, but all you can do is fix
> > the MBR; Windows Setup, FIXBOOT, ERD, MSDaRT and many other tools report the disk
> > partition as corrupt or unreadable, thus unfixable really.
>
> That could easily be protection - boot sector and partition map could be stored in
> ROM and loaded some other way. I seem to recall some CD-based game kept file data on
> the CD but the directory structure elsewhere.
Again possible, but I think the partition was corrupted as I have managed to get Windows 2000 to boot by recreating a bootable NT partition. It booted up to the point that the HAL file couldn't work with the hardware. It's possible the image of the disk became corrupt somehow before CHDing it (or possibly bad disk to start with).
EDIT: I suppose a re-image can either proove or disproove my theory..
Edited by Naoki (01/03/12 07:42 PM)
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Naoki]
#272156 - 01/04/12 12:51 AM
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OK, Fianlly got somewhere with this CHD, and it appears that if the game isn't installed already, there's a CD it needs to help install the game. While the files are all on the C: drive, it uses the D: drive for verfication of the game file's intergrity.
EDIT: Could be from a secondary partition actually (would explain the two corrupt partitions in diskpart), but I don't know, the CD verification failed until I manually copied the data. Now I'm stuck at the I/O screen, which presumably once it can talk to the I/O board it will boot the SNOW.EXE. Trying to run the Diagnostics fails (needs the game to run or I/O board?), and the game fails again since there's no voodoo card. I wonder where I could find a cheap I/O board now...
Edited by Naoki (01/04/12 01:34 AM)
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Naoki]
#272220 - 01/05/12 04:19 AM
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I have a Maxi Gamer 3d2 (voodoo2) card that along with a dependable abit BH6 motherboard got me past the glide environment.
I've tried Off Road Thunder thus far.
Still could not get to anything pretty.
Stopped at "passing program to controller"
I have a Viewsonic G815 monitor that posted a frequency error, 24.9 khz.
My LCD didn't have a problem with the signal.
I'll give the other CHD's a try tomorrow.
I'm so nostalgic now for 3dfx and the 1990's
I have so many old video cards around here but no 3dfx except the dreaded Hercules Stingray. Grrrh what a flop that was.
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: TrevEB]
#272246 - 01/05/12 07:26 PM
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There's a point, now I have a Voodoo card I could try them but I have no hope for any more progress due to the missing I/O board and the fact the custom OS probably won't look at the AGP controller, let alone use the newer card. It might not like the chipset either..
Regarding Hydro Thunder, my old AMD K6-2 managed to get an almost stock CHD running. The diagnostics run and I can change various settings, but the Missing I/o board causes problems, such as not being able to exit the diags without sing task manager since the board is convinced the DIP settings are set to test mode. The main game gets further but then ends with no errors, again I believe the I/O is to blame. Strange though that most of the diags can be run with a standard AT Keyboard.
Oh, speaking of the diags, I'm gonna recreate a new VHD to extract the game files to check it's not my doings but the diags report bad game files.
Another thing is, as I presumed would be the case, the game isn't limited to the stock Audio chip or LAN board, it just depends if you have the driver installed and Windows detects it since I could hear some BGM music on my Audigy EAX card after installing the drivers and my 3COM LAN card seems to get detected aswell.
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: Naoki]
#272352 - 01/06/12 10:40 PM
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You are getting much farther along than I.
Hydrothunder caused an Err1 Hardware error at boot.
The Arctic Thunder image is more interesting because as you say, its a Windows 2000 hard drive. It also has 2 copies of the entire game on it.
I was only able to get as far as the ole 3dfx logo coming up.
The game files do have extractable music and sound effects.
Music is identical to tracks found on the console ports.
Use GAM game audio player
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Re: Arctic Thunder CHD
[Re: TrevEB]
#272359 - 01/07/12 12:08 AM
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> You are getting much farther along than I.
> Hydrothunder caused an Err1 Hardware error at boot.
>
> The Arctic Thunder image is more interesting because as you say, its a Windows 2000
> hard drive. It also has 2 copies of the entire game on it.
> I was only able to get as far as the ole 3dfx logo coming up.
>
> The game files do have extractable music and sound effects.
> Music is identical to tracks found on the console ports.
> Use GAM game audio player
You are getting further than me with the Arctic Thunder CHD. Mine goes either up to the "No I/O" box or loads the game full screen and crashes before anything is shown. It's the same Voodoo or same type of Voodoo card Qauntum3D put in the graphite, so it could be that this isn't a penium 3 board. I have pentium 4 board than can support the Voodoo aswell but the BIOS is toast and goes to a boot block error...
Edited by Naoki (01/07/12 12:10 AM)
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