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So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
#256348 - 06/03/11 02:54 AM
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I thought I read somewhere here that Wins 8 won't be good for mame or other emulator's ? Is this is true, if so why ?
If not, then sorry about the post.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: Kano11]
#256349 - 06/03/11 03:09 AM
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> I thought I read somewhere here that Wins 8 won't be good for mame or other
> emulator's ? Is this is true, if so why ?
> If not, then sorry about the post.
There are no final specs for Windows 8 yet, and I strongly doubt anything they're doing with it (primarily making it so it works better with touchscreens) would be bad for emulators.
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| redk9258 |
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#256351 - 06/03/11 03:31 AM
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According to THIS (watch the video) it will run on hardware Windows 7 can run on, either using the same or less resources.
Notice that Windows explorer has the ribbon interface. I know a lot of people hated it in Office 2007. I'm still using Office 2003 so I don't have experience with it in Office but Windows Live uses it and I kind of like it now that I am used to it.
Edited by redk9258 (06/03/11 03:40 AM)
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#256352 - 06/03/11 03:42 AM
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Din't W7 come out like a couple of years ago's. Whats the big rush. XP lasted like 8-9 years. I know it's all about money and making money but do they really think people will want to jump on this since they only had W7 for maybe 4 years and the way the economy is now. Is W7 going to be outed dated really by then ?
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#256358 - 06/03/11 04:04 AM
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> > I thought I read somewhere here that Wins 8 won't be good for mame or other
> > emulator's ? Is this is true, if so why ?
> > If not, then sorry about the post.
>
> There are no final specs for Windows 8 yet, and I strongly doubt anything they're
> doing with it (primarily making it so it works better with touchscreens) would be bad
> for emulators.
Time to program a MameOS, then? 
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: Kano11]
#256361 - 06/03/11 04:08 AM
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Windows 7 has some serious flaws that make it less than ideal for use in arcade cabinets with arcade monitors. I'd be willing to bet that Windows 8 will have them as well.
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: Master O]
#256362 - 06/03/11 04:22 AM
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Just use a linux distro with the right bits to give the best possible results for MAME.
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: Kano11]
#256364 - 06/03/11 04:27 AM
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You're forgetting Vista. If they hadn't of dropped the ball on Vista, which was a combination of small issues and not a bad OS overall, XP would have gone quietly into the night just like 2000 did.
Besides, sticking with XP for years was not a great idea. Same deal with old versions of Internet Explorer. You don't hear people making the same excuses that we should all be using a version of IE circa 2002 and that if they come out with a new version this year we wont need a new release until 2018. I think the only reason people complain about getting a new OS every 3 years and ALSO complain when they don't get a new web browser every three years is cost. If they have to buy something they will cry like 3 year olds now matter how awesome it is but if its free they will eat it up even if its just a bugfix with a new version number.
Just remember; Windows 7 is just Windows Vista after paying attention to some angry costumer feedback, and most people love Windows 7.
Lando242
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: Kano11]
#256370 - 06/03/11 04:58 AM
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>Notice that Windows explorer has the ribbon interface. I know a lot of people hated it
>in Office 2007. I'm still using Office 2003 so I don't have experience with it in
>Office but Windows Live uses it and I kind of like it now that I am used to it.
I'm in a half-way house. I use Office 2007 at work, hated the ribbon when I first got it, and installed Classic Menu (to get the original menus as well as the ribbon).
At home, I'm still Office 2003 (does all I want), but increasingly I'm looking for the ribbon at home. LOL.
Guess it just takes time ....
> Din't W7 come out like a couple of years ago's. Whats the big rush. XP lasted like
> 8-9 years. I know it's all about money and making money but do they really think
> people will want to jump on this since they only had W7 for maybe 4 years and the way
> the economy is now. Is W7 going to be outed dated really by then ?
No, Win 7's got a lot of shelf life yet. Specially for people like me who tend to hate / turn off the graphical glitz.
I'm still using Vista at home (an awesome OS, once you get it set-up just how you like it - and that's been a "process"), and 7 at work (liking it more each day). With VM's running everything else I want to tinker with.
I think the rush is that MS are trying to be the leader on this instead of the follower.
LOL - they could have just rolled out an iOS theme for Windows 7. That's basically what Win 8 looks like so far. 
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: krick]
#256372 - 06/03/11 05:05 AM
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The last (only) article I read about it said you basically need a new computer or ram upgrade to run it unless you have a huge amount already. I forgot the amount but I recall I don't have near enough and I have 4 gigs. So, that's really shit to need more than that for an OS. I'll eventually upgrade I'm sure but not on this PC.
Edit: I read some quote on a linked article and MS is now saying you won't need to upgrade so I guess they changed some things around. Nevermind the above I suppose.
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> The last (only) article I read about it said you basically need a new computer or ram
> upgrade to run it unless you have a huge amount already. I forgot the amount but I
> recall I don't have near enough and I have 4 gigs. So, that's really shit to need
> more than that for an OS. I'll eventually upgrade I'm sure but not on this PC.
>
> Edit: I read some quote on a linked article and MS is now saying you won't need to
> upgrade so I guess they changed some things around. Nevermind the above I suppose.
I'm running Windows 7 64-bit with 4GB RAM. Maybe I'm not understanding this or something, but in Task Manager, on the Performance tab, I rarely use more than 2.5GB RAM. Maybe I don't keep enough programs open or something. Even compiling MAME with the -j5 switch, it doesn't go above 2.5GB.
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: redk9258]
#256378 - 06/03/11 05:35 AM
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If the compiler is a 32bit executable it won't go over 2GB unless it uses the /largeaddressaware flag. It's a Windows thing.
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: redk9258]
#256379 - 06/03/11 05:36 AM
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The article I originally read (not going to search for it) said it was going to need something absurd like 8 gigs and didn't see it as a big deal and expected people buying new computers in 2012 to already have it or whatever. But MS has changed their mind now I guess.
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: Reznor007]
#256383 - 06/03/11 05:49 AM
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> If the compiler is a 32bit executable it won't go over 2GB unless it uses the
> /largeaddressaware flag. It's a Windows thing.
Well the OS is 64-bit and I have other programs running plus the OS and it still doesn't go to 3GB.
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: redk9258]
#256384 - 06/03/11 05:57 AM
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The compiler itself is probably still 32bit, and that's the determining factor. A single 32bit windows exe is only allowed 2GB of space even on 64bit.
As for the other stuff, some is probably paged even though you aren't using the full physical RAM.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: Reznor007]
#256385 - 06/03/11 06:01 AM
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> The compiler itself is probably still 32bit, and that's the determining factor. A
> single 32bit windows exe is only allowed 2GB of space even on 64bit.
You can get well over 4 GB in use on x64 even using 32-bit executables. It's basically unavoidable if you do any kind of serious development. Games for current-generation consoles pretty much couldn't exist without x64 OSes - the dev tools have gotten very RAM-hungry.
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: Master O]
#256386 - 06/03/11 06:04 AM
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> Time to program a MameOS, then?
How exactly did you get *that* out of what I said? At this point, I'm confident Windows 8 will be a perfectly fine way to run MAME.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: krick]
#256387 - 06/03/11 06:05 AM
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> Windows 7 has some serious flaws that make it less than ideal for use in arcade
> cabinets with arcade monitors. I'd be willing to bet that Windows 8 will have them as
> well.
And while you risk x-rays, high voltage, and shit imploding in your face, everyone else is enjoying the HLSL effects 
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#256388 - 06/03/11 06:06 AM
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That's if you use the /largeaddressaware flag though. Normally they won't go over 2. World of Warcraft uses aggressive caching to keep things under 2GB because Blizzard doesn't want to use 3gb+ addressing.
EDIT-i am meaning 2gb per executable, not total, in case anyone was confused.
Edited by Reznor007 (06/03/11 06:08 AM)
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: Reznor007]
#256389 - 06/03/11 06:12 AM
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I just opened about 35 different programs. Almost made it to 3GB. Probably should have started another MAME compilation, maybe it would have went over 3. Maybe Task Manager isn't giving the correct number?
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: redk9258]
#256390 - 06/03/11 06:19 AM
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If you turn on "Peak working set" in the task manager it will show you the maximum amount of RAM that a single exe has used to get an idea.
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#256403 - 06/03/11 09:49 AM
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> > Windows 7 has some serious flaws that make it less than ideal for use in arcade
> > cabinets with arcade monitors. I'd be willing to bet that Windows 8 will have them
> as
> > well.
>
> And while you risk x-rays, high voltage, and shit imploding in your face, everyone
> else is enjoying the HLSL effects
With monitors that still suck some due to backlighting glare. In this case, technique cannot make a small dick seem bigger.
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#256414 - 06/03/11 01:55 PM
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#256415 - 06/03/11 02:12 PM
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> not me. I have a shitty jurassic computer that can almost can't run GTA San Andreas.
> much less the GPU very super intensive HLSL effects.
If your PC is as old as mine, then it won't even be able to run Tekken 2 at full speed in ePSXe using the default settings for Pete's GPU plugin, since the game will run jump randomly between 60 (or 50) and 30fps on the final stage against Devil (hall of mirrors).
GTA San Andreas almost left Rockstar Games in an unplayable state on the PC version. Just look at the list of bugs and the poor button mapping options (complete lack of numpad 5, Escape key, D-pad/analog/Hat switch etc). Of course, just the fact that you can use the mouse instead of the right analog stick makes it so much better than the PS2 apparently (take away Multi Theft Auto, if that even still exists now).
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: Reznor007]
#256420 - 06/03/11 03:14 PM
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> If you turn on "Peak working set" in the task manager it will show you the maximum
> amount of RAM that a single exe has used to get an idea.
I don't see a setting for that. How do you turn it on?
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: redk9258]
#256422 - 06/03/11 03:52 PM
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> View->Columns->Memory-Peak Working Set
>
> You can also turn on Commit Size which is related to how much it will page.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commit_charge if you want more detail
I don't have those options. What version of Windows are you running? I opened Resource Monitor and at least found where my 1MB of RAM went (reserved for hardware).
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#256432 - 06/03/11 05:00 PM
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> There are no final specs for Windows 8 yet
*facepalm*
there are several beta builds of Windows 8 are floating around. and you can already download and test them.
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: abelenki]
#256435 - 06/03/11 05:27 PM
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> > There are no final specs for Windows 8 yet
>
> *facepalm*
>
> there are several beta builds of Windows 8 are floating around. and you can already
> download and test them.
Those are more accurately described as pre-alpha. MS hasn't announced or implemented the actual feature set yet, so my statement is correct.
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: redk9258]
#256446 - 06/03/11 09:04 PM
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Windows 7 home, but it's not in resource manager, its in task manager.
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: Reznor007]
#256449 - 06/03/11 10:52 PM
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> Windows 7 home, but it's not in resource manager, its in task manager.
I'm running Windows 7 Pro and I do not see those settings.
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> > Windows 7 home, but it's not in resource manager, its in task manager.
>
> I'm running Windows 7 Pro and I do not see those settings.
- Stiletto
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: Stiletto]
#256451 - 06/03/11 11:07 PM
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I was looking on the Performance tab not the Processes tab. That is why I didn't see it. Resource Monitor will also show individual processes.
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: mogli]
#256452 - 06/03/11 11:29 PM
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> technique cannot make a small dick seem bigger.
Sorry about that. Hey, at least you tried.
S
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: Sune]
#256478 - 06/04/11 09:50 AM
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> > technique cannot make a small dick seem bigger.
>
> Sorry about that. Hey, at least you tried.
>
> S
Hah hah hah hah. Com'ere little boy.....
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: redk9258]
#256671 - 06/07/11 01:00 AM
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I'm still using Windows 98SE on some of my rigs.
XP will be running on the rest of my PCs for the next 3 years or so.
Windows 7/64 with 8GBs at the moment on the main machine.
Runs Dkong 100% now. 
Windows 8? Wasn't that supposed to be running on that ARM platform that no mamedevs apparently cannot port Mame to are interested in.
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Re: So is Windows 8 going to be bad for mame ?
[Re: ]
#256673 - 06/07/11 01:43 AM
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> Windows 8? Wasn't that supposed to be running on that ARM platform that no mamedevs
> apparently cannot port Mame to are interested in.
I'm sure Windows 8 (or whatever it is called) will run on the same machines that Windows 7 run on now.
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