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Mirrored monitors - DOT, etc
#249166 - 03/18/11 04:56 AM
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What would it take to emulate all the components - mirrored monitor/hoving-in-space-graphics, back-lit background - of DOT? (Or, Asteroids Deluxe, for that matter?)
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Re: Mirrored monitors - DOT, etc
[Re: mogli]
#249488 - 03/21/11 07:24 PM
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Mame can do a mirror image, so that is not a problem. I could be wrong, but I believe aside from that, all you need is a dark cabinet and a piece of glass angled correctly, am I right?
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Re: Mirrored monitors - DOT, etc
[Re: mogli]
#249520 - 03/22/11 02:26 AM
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There are a few ways...
1) Single game method
Lay your monitor flat, then use a half-silvered mirror (security mirror) angled at 45 degrees. The monitor should be in front of the mirror.
Place a printed out and correctly lit artwork behind the mirror. The mirror should have the reflective side forwards.
When lit from the rear, the artwork will appear to be behind the monitor / game image.
2) Simulated version 1
Use 2 monitors. One behind the mirrored glass, one in front of the glass. Display the appropriate artwork on the rear monitor, and mame display on the front monitor.
3) Simulated version 2
Re-program mame so that it can display 3d models, as well as in stereoscopic 3d, and for added benefit, head tracking too.
Make a 3d model of the game, display the game image and artwork images at the correct angles and 3d distances. Don 3d glasses to witness actual depth. Use head-tracking, to be able to view around monitor bezels / artwork, and see alternate angles. Walk back and forth to zoom in and out to see more or less of the cabinet.
4) Simulated version 3
Ultimate version: Use of 2 monitors, silvered mirror, 3d, stereo 3d, and head-tracking.
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| DMala |
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Re: Mirrored monitors - DOT, etc
[Re: StevieWunderful]
#249536 - 03/22/11 04:44 AM
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> 3) Simulated version 2
>
>
> Re-program mame so that it can display 3d models, as well as in stereoscopic 3d, and
> for added benefit, head tracking too.
>
> Make a 3d model of the game, display the game image and artwork images at the
> correct angles and 3d distances. Don 3d glasses to witness actual depth. Use
> head-tracking, to be able to view around monitor bezels / artwork, and see alternate
> angles. Walk back and forth to zoom in and out to see more or less of the cabinet.
Sweet! Where can I download this? 
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I think a purely graphical approach may work. I'm curious whether that would be beyond the scope, and even the capacity, of MAME.
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Re: No.....
[Re: mogli]
#249589 - 03/22/11 10:04 PM
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You obviously didnt read my reply in Full. You can catch the relevant part quoted in dmala's reply.
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> You obviously didnt read my reply in Full. You can catch the relevant part quoted in
> dmala's reply.
I read it. I think that method would be in the vein of openGL animation or something, which I think is totaly out of the scope of MAME.
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Re: No.....
[Re: mogli]
#249984 - 03/26/11 07:08 PM
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Representing games as accurately as possible, should Not be out of the Scope of a project which is aimed at preserving arcade history.
At one time, Artwork all together was out of the scope of Mame... and yet, people rallied for it, because many times, overlays and backdrops better represent the game as it was intended to be experienced.
The problem is, you cant get depth without true 3d & or at least headtracking, ...so theres no way to see around something like monitor glass artwork. It will obscure the gamers view of part of the monitor display, when viewed in 2d.
The entire cabinet doesnt have to be rendered, but the ability to at very least display monitors at angles, artwork, all at true 3d coordinate depths, isnt exactly rocket science, especially when compared is possible and done today on a regular basis.
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The displayed image was from a 2D surface, onto a 2D surface, the back of which had a drawing that was 2D. I think it's matters of the proper superposition of the image, the right colors of the displayed image (as obviously the colors in the image below are neon-like), and proper backlighting of the mirror drawing.
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Re: No.....
[Re: mogli]
#250073 - 03/27/11 06:11 PM
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The displayed image was from a 2D surface, onto a 2D surface, the back of which had a drawing that was 2D. I think it's matters of the proper superposition of the image, the right colors of the displayed image (as obviously the colors in the image below are neon-like), and proper backlighting of the mirror drawing.
----
Theres things you are not seeing.
The first layer behind the mirror, is a red & black layer, and its tilted about 15 or so degrees away from the player.
Next is the plexiglass layer that has the blue caps.
Next is the Actual backdrop, lit from behind.
The worst part, is that you cant see any depth in this.
The actual depth between each layer really makes this come alive, and makes it look about 1.5 ft to 2ft deep.
You just cant get that look / feel from a flat image.
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It doesn't show the designations of all the numbers, so I don't know what 3 and 5 are. Still: 3, 4, and 5 are all 2D surfaces.
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Edit
[Re: mogli]
#250114 - 03/28/11 05:05 AM
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8 - backdrop artwork (tron land)
5 - Blue box end art
3 - red/black line artwork
4 - half silvered mirror
17/18 - left & right line art, stapled to the side of the cab.
10 = monitor bezel
Regardless, I dont understand what you are looking for.
There already exist full much of the artwork for Disc Of Tron on MrDo's site, thats hosted here:
The one and only thing missing, is true depth... which cant be simulated in 2d. It must be in stereoscopic 3d to show as it would in the arcade machine.
It also looks like like butt compared to the original due to both incorrect lighting effect on the red layer, the overly bright & too perfect bezel, and again, not being in true 3d.
-- Edit ---
Heres my simulated example, of a closer replication of Arcade lighting as seen in one of the uploaded photos.
1) Add pinkish hue to top of Red layer to simulate glow from Blacklight Ink.
2) Add dark lighting to simulate fade where light is limited on red layer.
3) Reduce brightness and saturation (slightly) of Bezel to keep retina burn to a minimal :P As well as better simulate a realistic lighting experience.
Of course this is sloppy, and realistically, lighting can and does change depending on what you are looking at, what angle, how close/far, and the lighting level of the arcade surrounding the machine.
Edited by xiaou2 (03/28/11 08:10 AM)
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| drewcifer |
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One bad Mutha-(shut yo' mouth!)
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Re: No.....
[Re: mogli]
#250156 - 03/28/11 07:23 PM
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> Still: 3, 4, and 5 are all 2D surfaces.
...offset from each other in 3d space.
Proper representation of the cab would require a 3d environment using something like "openGL animation" [sic].
It's not entirely outside of the scope of MAME, but would take a lot of work and dedication.
Andrew
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Hmmm. I hadn't seen an image with the bezel and 'mirror'. They portray a depth that, while not holograph-like, is pretty satisfying. However, I have a 27" monitor, and the 'playfield' is still a little small.
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Re: No.....
[Re: drewcifer]
#250175 - 03/29/11 12:26 AM
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> > Still: 3, 4, and 5 are all 2D surfaces.
>
> ...offset from each other in 3d space.
>
> Proper representation of the cab would require a 3d environment using something like
> "openGL animation" [sic].
>
> It's not entirely outside of the scope of MAME, but would take a lot of work and
> dedication.
>
> Andrew
Is FB using some 3D stuff to get that screen tilt and rounding?
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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| drewcifer |
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One bad Mutha-(shut yo' mouth!)
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Re: No.....
[Re: mogli]
#250176 - 03/29/11 12:29 AM
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> > > Still: 3, 4, and 5 are all 2D surfaces.
> >
> > ...offset from each other in 3d space.
> >
> > Proper representation of the cab would require a 3d environment using something
> like
> > "openGL animation" [sic].
> >
> > It's not entirely outside of the scope of MAME, but would take a lot of work and
> > dedication.
> >
> > Andrew
>
> Is FB using some 3D stuff to get that screen tilt and rounding?
No, but there's just one surface. It falls into a special category of 3d. You don't need a full 3d perspective when when there isn't a series of 2d surfaces placed relative to each other in 3d space.
Read about affine transforms if you're really interested.
Andrew
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Re: Edit
[Re: mogli]
#250205 - 03/29/11 08:02 AM
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To be clear, you cant see the mirror.
The mirror is enclosed in the dark cab, and when lit from both sides, it shows the game image, and the art behind it.
Theres no visible trace of the mirror unless you get extremely close, get some light shining in at just the right angle.
Unless you have a Monster monitor, the game image will be very very small when using the Artwork. Remember, the front bezel of a Discs of Tron game is just about as wide as the Arcade cabinet.
The only ways around this:
1) dont use the art
2) use the option to Crop the artwork
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