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Freedom in the 50 States
#244302 - 01/23/11 09:48 AM
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| Andrew |
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Girl Watcher
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Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose [nt]
[Re: krick]
#244360 - 01/24/11 05:24 AM
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o.o
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A story of one man and his obsession with the female anatomy.
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose [nt]
[Re: Andrew]
#244413 - 01/24/11 02:48 PM
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Ya could've at least had one shot of Janis...:)
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Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
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| AWJ |
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Re: Freedom in the 50 States
[Re: krick]
#244414 - 01/24/11 03:07 PM
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GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Re: Freedom in the 50 States
[Re: krick]
#244420 - 01/24/11 05:15 PM
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No surprise the same states that have the least freedom are also the exact same states vying for bankruptsy, especially New York, New Jersey, California. So, the masses can't live off the backs of the few... who knew?
Also, for your consideration, are these two maps:
State's with budget shortfalls:
US Political map
Hmmm.... that's curious...what you're saying is... while Democrats may be popular because they promise the most Government support (who DOESN'T want a free lunch), it appears such policy drives you to bankruptsy.. who knew? Well, the politicians know, but they don't care, they just want to get elected, damn the public and damn the government, he got elected.
When you read articles where people say "I am better off with this reform" that's why politics fail, people vote what's best for themselves, not what's best for their society. People scoff at liberty and libertairans, but they would rather scoff all the way down with the sinking ship waiting for someone to rescue them than get sweaty manning the lifeboats for themselves.
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If you're playing strip poker maybe ;P [nt]
[Re: Andrew]
#244510 - 01/25/11 05:42 AM
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Just broke my personal record for number of consecutive days without dying!
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> No surprise the same states that have the least freedom are also the exact same
> states vying for bankruptsy, especially New York, New Jersey, California. So, the
> masses can't live off the backs of the few... who knew?
>
> Also, for your consideration, are these two maps:
>
> States with budget shortfalls:
>
> US Political map
>
> Hmmm.... that's curious...what you're saying is... while Democrats may be popular
> because they promise the most Government support (who DOESN'T want a free lunch), it
> appears such policy drives you to bankruptsy.. who knew? Well, the politicians know,
> but they don't care, they just want to get elected, damn the public and damn the
> government, he got elected.
Actually, the majority of states are having budget issues for three major reasons that I know of, and none of them are directly attributable to Democrats or Republicans:
1) Out of control public worker pension payouts
2) Huge investment losses from the stock market taking a dump
3) Popped housing bubble = plummeting housing prices = lower appraisals = lower property tax revenue
Also, it's actually not as cut and dry as you say. There's lots of "conservative" red states with budget problems. Assuming that AK is "red" and HI is "blue" since they're not pictured on the red/blue map, here's the breakdown...
70% match
30% do not match
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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GroovyMAME support forum on BYOAC
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Re: Freedom in the 50 States
[Re: krick]
#244537 - 01/25/11 02:44 PM
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> > No surprise the same states that have the least freedom are also the exact same
> > states vying for bankruptsy, especially New York, New Jersey, California. So, the
> > masses can't live off the backs of the few... who knew?
> >
> > Also, for your consideration, are these two maps:
> >
> > States with budget shortfalls:
> >
> > US Political map
> >
> > Hmmm.... that's curious...what you're saying is... while Democrats may be popular
> > because they promise the most Government support (who DOESN'T want a free lunch),
> it
> > appears such policy drives you to bankruptsy.. who knew? Well, the politicians
> know,
> > but they don't care, they just want to get elected, damn the public and damn the
> > government, he got elected.
>
> Actually, the majority of states are having budget issues for three major reasons
> that I know of, and none of them are directly attributable to Democrats or
> Republicans:
>
> 1) Out of control public worker pension payouts
> 2) Huge investment losses from the stock market taking a dump
> 3) Popped housing bubble = plummeting housing prices = lower appraisals = lower
> property tax revenue
>
> Also, it's actually not as cut and dry as you say. There's lots of "conservative" red
> states with budget problems. Assuming that AK is "red" and HI is "blue" since they're
> not pictured on the red/blue map, here's the breakdown...
>
> 70% match
> 30% do not match
Dude, stop bursting the bubble of everyone that thinks the US is separated into 2 groups: Those that listen to fat, opiate addicted pundits, not to mention news outlets owned by right-wing Australians, and all them wrong headed pinkos.
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Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
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| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Re: Freedom in the 50 States
[Re: igamabob]
#244565 - 01/25/11 06:25 PM
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>Dude, stop bursting the bubble of everyone
He didn't burst any bubbles! 70% match is pretty good statistic, meaning you can predict the fiscal stability of a state 70% of the time based on its prevailing party alone... that says a lot.
Don't get me for a Republican, though. But of the two lousy parties, they are the lessor of two evils. If you could get the fiscal responsibilty without all the rightwing zealotry, I'd accept them, but since the zealotry comes with it, it makes them a tough pill to swallow... but to further that analogy, if they are a tough pil to swallow, the democrats are a suppository. 
But as far as the budget busters go:
1. "Out of control public worker pension payouts" a democratic staple.
2. "Huge investment losses from the stock market taking a dump" triggered by #3
3. "Popped housing bubble" which was created by Bill Clinton's legislation which forced banks to loan to bad-risk buyers under the moniker "The National Homeownership Strategy: Partners in the American Dream." Made him popular with the masses, but it cost the country dearly in the end.
Time and time again society suffers when Governments mess with free market forces.
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Re: Freedom in the 50 States
[Re: GatKong]
#244569 - 01/25/11 07:20 PM
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> > Dude, stop bursting the bubble of everyone
>
> He didn't burst any bubbles! 70% match is pretty good statistic, meaning you can
> predict the fiscal stability of a state 70% of the time based on its prevailing party
> alone... that says a lot.
>
> Don't get me for a Republican, though. But of the two lousy parties, they are the
> lessor of two evils. If you could get the fiscal responsibilty without all the
> rightwing zealotry, I'd accept them, but since the zealotry comes with it, it makes
> them a tough pill to swallow... but to further that analogy, if they are a tough pil
> to swallow, the democrats are a suppository.
>
> But as far as the budget busters go:
> 1. "Out of control public worker pension payouts" a democratic staple.
Yeah, paying out agreed upon pensions is nothing but a democratic fault...I might buy that one with some citation
> 2. "Huge investment losses from the stock market taking a dump" triggered by #3
> 3. "Popped housing bubble" which was created by Bill Clinton's legislation which
> forced banks to loan to bad-risk buyers under the moniker "The National Homeownership
> Strategy: Partners in the American Dream." Made him popular with the masses, but it
> cost the country dearly in the end.
AMPTA signed in 1982 by the The Great Communicator created these loans to begin with. It also meant that banks could issue these adjustable rate loans with no oversight.
>
>
> Time and time again society suffers when Governments mess with free market forces.
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| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Re: Freedom in the 50 States
[Re: igamabob]
#244570 - 01/25/11 07:39 PM
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> Yeah, paying out agreed upon pensions is nothing but a democratic fault...I might buy that one with some citation
You need a citation to tell you the unions are bedmates with the Democtrates? Really? When was the last time you saw a union rally for a Republican? If you are denying that association, then you're just not willing to have an honest discussion about politics.
Allowing someone to retire after 20 years of service, and then collect a pension for 30 or 40 more years is unsustainable... compounded by double-dippers. It is literally crushing those states that were foolish enough to swell their government employement rates and pension benefits too high, just like it crushed the auto companies. Big government = big bills, it's a pyramid/ponzie scheme that will have to be contended with to save the failing states. It won't be a popular discussion, but it's one that will have to be had.
Edited by Gatinho (01/25/11 07:40 PM)
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Re: Freedom in the 50 States
[Re: GatKong]
#244574 - 01/25/11 07:52 PM
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> > Yeah, paying out agreed upon pensions is nothing but a democratic fault...I might
> buy that one with some citation
>
> You need a citation to tell you the unions are bedmates with the Democtrates? Really?
> When was the last time you saw a union rally for a Republican? If you are denying
> that association, then you're just not willing to have an honest discussion about
> politics.
>
> Allowing someone to retire after 20 years of service, and then collect a pension for
> 30 or 40 more years is unsustainable... compounded by double-dippers. It is literally
> crushing those states that were foolish enough to swell their government employement
> rates and pension benefits too high, just like it crushed the auto companies. Big
> government = big bills, it's a pyramid/ponzie scheme that will have to be contended
> with to save the failing states. It won't be a popular discussion, but it's one that
> will have to be had.
Actually, a pension system, if run properly, is sustainable. The problem occurs when the administrators of said pension system 'borrow' from it to pay for other things. If the pension system is well funded and administered (yes, I realize that when dealing with government this may be impossible), you really shouldn't ever have to touch the principal to pay out to your pensioners.
I will agree with the problems with double dippers. This is a practice that is mighty dodgy. This is always a problem when you have a overly complex system, people will figure out how to game it, and, unfortunately, they are usually in the minority of people collecting from said systems, and screw it up for everyone.
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| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Re: Freedom in the 50 States
[Re: igamabob]
#244575 - 01/25/11 07:57 PM
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>This is always a problem when you have a overly complex system, people will figure out how to game it
Yes! Now we are seeing on common ground. Historically, the bigger the system/government, the more it is cortrupt/unfair.
>AMPTA signed in 1982 by the The Great Communicator created these loans to begin with. It also meant that banks could issue these adjustable rate loans with no oversight.
More common ground. Agreed, another dumb move by the Government, this time under Republican control. Again, governemnt intervening in market forces. If banks had to suffer directly for selling a lame loan, they wouldn't sell lame loans... but with that act, they were able to sell off unconventional loans, and shift the risk away from themselves. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
I'm all for minimual government, maximum freedom to succeed or fail for the individual. That is the pursuit of happiness, the right of self determination.
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Re: Freedom in the 50 States
[Re: GatKong]
#244576 - 01/25/11 08:00 PM
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> > This is always a problem when you have a overly complex system, people will figure
> out how to game it
>
> Yes! Now we are seeing on common ground. Historically, the bigger the
> system/government, the more it is cortrupt/unfair.
>
> > AMPTA signed in 1982 by the The Great Communicator created these loans to begin
> with. It also meant that banks could issue these adjustable rate loans with no
> oversight.
>
> More common ground. Agreed, another dumb move by the Government, this time under
> Republican control. Again, governemnt intervening in market forces. If banks had to
> suffer directly for selling a lame loan, they wouldn't sell lame loans... but with
> that act, they were able to sell off unconventional loans, and shift the risk away
> from themselves. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
>
> I'm all for minimual government, maximum freedom to succeed or fail for the
> individual. That is the pursuit of happiness, the right of self determination.
Minimal government, but oversight where it needs to be. If you take away all government oversight, then you create a Standard Oil of America. Completely open markets work well on paper, and in mathematical models that leave out human ingenuity and greed.
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| Jdurgi |
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Regular
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Re: Freedom in the 50 States
[Re: krick]
#245010 - 01/30/11 06:58 AM
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> How does your state rank? My state sucks.
>
> http://mercatus.org/sites/default/files/publication/Freedom_in_the_50_States.pdf
26th in Fiscal Policy.
42nd in Regulatory Policy.
38th in Economic Freedom.
38th in Personal Freedom.
41st in Overall Freedom.
Interesting that they mentioned the Kelo Eminent Domain case in the document. Having known a LOT about the case since it happened in my general area, it is so widely misunderstood and falsified everywhere. A lot of what is not mentioned when people go and reference the case is that the houses which were "taken" and the area they were in was HORRENDOUS!!!!! That part of New London was a death trap if you were affluent, or white. The houses which were taken via eminent domain were not brand new houses that would be sold for well above what was being given to the owners. They were beat up, run down, should-have-been-condemned type houses and the prices that they were apparently offered were well above their fair market value. The one part of the case that is properly talked about is the fact that the city went ahead and took property from a citizen so that a large company could move in to that area. For those who had strongly opposed it, that part of New London is now thriving and in much better shape than it ever had been. So what the city was saying when they took that property was correct. Had it not happened, the economic stability of this general area would be in turmoil.
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| Jdurgi |
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Re: Freedom in the 50 States
[Re: igamabob]
#245012 - 01/30/11 07:16 AM
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> Minimal government, but oversight where it needs to be.
This is actually what I see in my work industry where what we do is pretty minimal as most of the work has been outsourced to other CROs. However, we still have individuals around in those divisions to perform the oversight of what the CROs are doing and are technically competent to step in and perform the task and correct mistakes if need be.
I don't consider myself to be of any political party because each party out there has something about them that I absolutely abhor with a passion. I just believe that everybody should be responsible for their own actions and their own intents. If an idiot is walking up my driveway uninvited, and then slips and breaks his ankle, I should not be held responsible for his stupidity as I had no intent to injure anybody.
I bought my house in the fall of 2007. It's my first home and while it's not the ideal home that I really would like, it's something I can afford without putting myself in financial ruin and it suits its need. While looking for a house, I was shown numerous houses with prices well out of my range, but the realtor said that with an adjustable rate mortgage I could get a lower interest rate and thusly lower payments. When I asked her what would happen when the interest rate goes up, she just said "Well, the economy is already bad so it will improve in the future." I just shook my head and told her that I won't be using her to look for houses anymore. When I bought my house, I bought it with a fixed rate mortgage even though an adjustable rate would have been cheaper at the time. Since I am not a psychic, I have no idea what the rates would end up being in the future and I didn't want to be one of the countless number of retarded dumbasses who bought houses well out of their price range thus causing our economy to collapse. I bought what I could afford and while I would like to perhaps have a few more square feet and could do without the other issues that have popped up, I at least know that my mortgage payment each month will always be the same and that if I get a promotion at work, the extra income will be just that.
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| DMala |
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Re: Freedom in the 50 States
[Re: Jdurgi]
#245022 - 01/30/11 08:51 AM
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> They were beat
> up, run down, should-have-been-condemned type houses and the prices that they were
> apparently offered were well above their fair market value.
My problem in cases like this is that people are offered what the fair market value was *before* a multimillion dollar development project needed their property. This, by definition, raises the value of the property. If the developer offered enough money, I guarantee you that even the most stubborn of holdouts would eventually sell. It's just cheaper to get the politicians to force them out and pay them "market value" under the guise of improving the area.
I have no doubt that a lot of these projects do improve bad areas. I still don't think it justifies using government authority to take private property for private, for-profit development. Even if it's done with good intentions, it's a violation of a person's rights, and the potential for abuse is *massive*.
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| DMala |
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Sleep is overrated
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Re: Freedom in the 50 States
[Re: igamabob]
#245023 - 01/30/11 08:57 AM
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> Minimal government, but oversight where it needs to be. If you take away all
> government oversight, then you create a Standard Oil of America. Completely open
> markets work well on paper, and in mathematical models that leave out human ingenuity
> and greed.
How about, as a part of minimal government, we eliminate most of the rights and protections granted to corporations? If people are held personally responsible for their actions and cannot hide behind a fictional entity, I think a lot of the worst abuses would go away.
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Re: Freedom in the 50 States
[Re: DMala]
#245136 - 01/31/11 03:30 AM
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> > Minimal government, but oversight where it needs to be. If you take away all
> > government oversight, then you create a Standard Oil of America. Completely open
> > markets work well on paper, and in mathematical models that leave out human
> ingenuity
> > and greed.
>
> How about, as a part of minimal government, we eliminate most of the rights and
> protections granted to corporations? If people are held personally responsible for
> their actions and cannot hide behind a fictional entity, I think a lot of the worst
> abuses would go away.
I do agree with getting rid of the 'rights and protections' as you call them, and the 'Corporations are individuals' BS when it comes to lobbying etc. However, those 'rights and protections' weren't there during the rise of the monopolies that were the reasons for anti-trust laws.
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