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GatKong
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Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question...
#242176 - 12/29/10 05:14 PM


We were in a casino arcade this week that had two-tier coin pushers, the top tier itself being the pusher for the lower tier.

On the top tier was a wad of cash sitting on top of the coins. In theory, if you could advance the wad far enough, it would fall from the first tier, then the second, then into your greedy little hands...

We learned a lesson that day... a $50 in quarters lesson...

The wad, even if you could advance it a centimeter or two with a lucky coin drop... would slowly scoot its way backward until it was maximally backward against the pusher again. Whaaa!

How is this so?

I'm guessing the pusher moves more smoothly inward, and perhaps just a little jerk-start outward... providing just enough inertial backward tendency to scoot that wad backward again against the pusher, but not enough of a jerk to visibly disturb the coins. That... or the tier was at a SLIGHT incline... again... not enough to be perceptible. I looked very close... as close as one can through a window... and could see no string or attachment to the wad of cash of any kind. How that cash would scoot backward I was not able to determine... but it would only loose ground in synch with the pusher movement... so I think my inertial theory is the right one.

Even if you tried to overwhelm that inertial tendency with enough quarters to keep the wad of cash advancing until it fell, at least in our experience... it couldn't be done... you couldn't get quarters in the slot fast enough... every little advance was frustratingly undone in just a few sweeps of the pusher... before you could build up enough quarters to cause the whole mass to slide again. We were "winning" tons of quarters doing this... so we played for over an hour before we ran out of our $50 source of quarters, jamming quarters into the machine at a furious pace hoping to win that wad of cash.

SO, THE QUESTION: Is the behavior of that wad of cash typical of coin pusher machines... or were we a victim of a particular scam?

While we generated quite a crowd watching us thinking we might any minute have a giant wad of cash in our hands... (the pusher was a giant octagonal one, so it had lots of viewing windows in to the action going on inside, which allowed for probably a good twenty people to watch us) all cheering every little advance and groaning every little set-back... ultimately the crowd... and us... were disappointed.

While we never won the wad of cash, Gatinha and I DID have at least more than an hour of exciting fun thinking it was possible... and we won a hat, a shirt , and some trinket toys by collecting various winning tokens that were mixed in with the quarters... so all in all we still enjoyed ourselves... not as much as we would have with a big fat wad of cash in our pocket... but still.







Tomu Breidah
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: GatKong]
#242182 - 12/29/10 07:38 PM


> SO, THE QUESTION: Is the behavior of that wad of cash typical of coin pusher
> machines... or were we a victim of a particular scam?

Yes.



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krick
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: GatKong]
#242211 - 12/30/10 05:38 AM


> How is this so?
>
> SO, THE QUESTION: Is the behavior of that wad of cash typical of coin pusher
> machines... or were we a victim of a particular scam?
>

Magnets?



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R. Belmont
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: GatKong]
#242212 - 12/30/10 05:59 AM


> SO, THE QUESTION: Is the behavior of that wad of cash typical of coin pusher
> machines... or were we a victim of a particular scam?

Absolutely typical. Crane games are a scam too, in case anyone hadn't figured it out yet ;-)



TheGuru
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: krick]
#242218 - 12/30/10 07:29 AM


> > How is this so?
> >
> > SO, THE QUESTION: Is the behavior of that wad of cash typical of coin pusher
> > machines... or were we a victim of a particular scam?
> >
>
> Magnets?

I repaired a few crane games some years ago so I know how they work......
Inside at the bottom is a small pot to adjust the 'force' of the crane grabber which connects to a DC motor. It's almost always set as low as possible or just a little bit above minimum. This means the motor has only a small amount of voltage available to turn the motor forward via a couple of gears. The pulling force when the crane latches onto a prize is greater than it can handle and the motor/gears turns backwards opening the claws and the prize drops. Therefore you will only ever be able to win the smaller/lighter prizes. The key to winning is to go for the (physically) smaller items.....
After repairing them I usually increased the voltage slightly via the pot before it was sent back hehe ;-)



krick
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#242219 - 12/30/10 07:38 AM


>
> Crane games are a scam too, in case anyone hadn't figured it out yet ;-)


In some states, they've passed laws that attempt to force them to be more "fair".

For example in one state (which I can't remember off the top of my head) the law says that you must be able to keep playing (on your original money) until you win something. So the game operators fill the machines with easy to pick up cheap worthless shit, and put one or two desirable items at the bottom that are impossible to pick up with the claw (and probably taped down with double sided tape). I've some machines get around this law by having the machines dispense crappy candy after each failed claw attempt. In essence you've "won" shitty candy.



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italieAdministrator
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#242223 - 12/30/10 08:37 AM


> > SO, THE QUESTION: Is the behavior of that wad of cash typical of coin pusher
> > machines... or were we a victim of a particular scam?
>
> Absolutely typical. Crane games are a scam too, in case anyone hadn't figured it out
> yet ;-)

That greatly depends on the operator...


I absolutely LOVED these machines when they were new, because nobody knew how to set difficulty levels on them properly. Easy prize.




GatKong
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: TheGuru]
#242363 - 01/01/11 05:26 PM


>Therefore you will only ever be able to win the smaller/lighter prizes.

I always thought it would be funny, for home use of course, to put all kinds of crazy things in a crane game... like a pistol, a book of matches, a booney knife, condoms, anything wacky... just so people, at a party perhaps, would look in the window and be like "WTF is THAT doing in there?"







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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: Tomu Breidah]
#242371 - 01/01/11 06:54 PM


Actually my question would be:

What the heck does this have to do with MAME?

Am I going to see coin pushers in the next release?



TafoidAdministrator
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: ]
#242372 - 01/01/11 06:56 PM


> Actually my question would be:
>
> What the heck does this have to do with MAME?
>
> Am I going to see coin pushers in the next release?

It's Arcade related - so it's fine to discuss here.

As for if there will be coin pushers in MAME, I won't discount the possibility of that happening someday
If it's arcade and cpu-based, it's a potential target for MAME.



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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: Tafoid]
#242375 - 01/01/11 07:24 PM


I stand corrected.



R. Belmont
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: ]
#242408 - 01/02/11 03:17 AM


> Am I going to see coin pushers in the next release?

GAME_IS_MECHANICAL has been added and 0.141u1 will include all of the PinMAME ROMs.



krick
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#242433 - 01/02/11 05:34 AM


> GAME_IS_MECHANICAL has been added and 0.141u1 will include all of the PinMAME ROMs.


Resistance is futile. We wish to improve ourselves. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service ours.



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italieAdministrator
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#242436 - 01/02/11 06:26 AM


> > Am I going to see coin pushers in the next release?
>
> GAME_IS_MECHANICAL has been added and 0.141u1 will include all of the PinMAME ROMs.

Twisty, if this isn't devquoted I'm hacking your conscripts and flashing it marquee style at the top of every page.

//that is all.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: italie]
#242437 - 01/02/11 06:28 AM


He's probably not kidding though. Too bad he didn't say "GAME_IS_ALL_DISCRETE". Could have seen gregf permawood.



Kale
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Re: Nope, he isn't joking here -nt- new [Re: Smitdogg]
#242464 - 01/02/11 06:52 PM


> He's probably not kidding though. Too bad he didn't say "GAME_IS_ALL_DISCRETE". Could
> have seen gregf permawood.



R. Belmont
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: italie]
#242474 - 01/02/11 10:36 PM


> > > Am I going to see coin pushers in the next release?
> >
> > GAME_IS_MECHANICAL has been added and 0.141u1 will include all of the PinMAME ROMs.
>
>
> Twisty, if this isn't devquoted I'm hacking your conscripts and flashing it marquee
> style at the top of every page.

I'm not kidding. Devquoting this will look really dumb when u1 happens



italieAdministrator
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#242494 - 01/03/11 03:50 AM


> > > > Am I going to see coin pushers in the next release?
> > >
> > > GAME_IS_MECHANICAL has been added and 0.141u1 will include all of the PinMAME
> ROMs.
> >
> >
> > Twisty, if this isn't devquoted I'm hacking your conscripts and flashing it marquee
> > style at the top of every page.
>
> I'm not kidding. Devquoting this will look really dumb when u1 happens

I still think it would make an great dev quote, whether it gets in on hilarity or sheer awesomeness.

//expect my chexx hockey driver in u2.....



etabeta
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#242516 - 01/03/11 01:14 PM


> > Am I going to see coin pushers in the next release?
>
> GAME_IS_MECHANICAL has been added and 0.141u1 will include all of the PinMAME ROMs.

and to clarify, the roms will all be added as skeleton drivers based on recent Micko's work with basically no PinMAME outdated code involved...



Heihachi_73
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#242519 - 01/03/11 03:00 PM


> GAME_IS_MECHANICAL has been added and 0.141u1 will include all of the PinMAME ROMs.

Don't tell teh fruitz0r kiddies, you'll get a million and one ROM requests if certain UK gambling games get added...

Just thinking about those games makes me sick!



jonwil
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: R. Belmont]
#242687 - 01/05/11 01:54 AM


So are we going to see pinball table support in the artwork system?
Or will we see an external interface ala Visual PinMame?



TafoidAdministrator
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: jonwil]
#242691 - 01/05/11 02:07 AM


> So are we going to see pinball table support in the artwork system?
> Or will we see an external interface ala Visual PinMame?

I'd say it's safe to say there will be no type of physics engine to make them 'playable'. Artwork usage is planned, however - details are still to be worked out. I wouldn't expect much at all except skeleton drivers for some time, either. They need to be properly documented all over again.



JWallace
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: Heihachi_73]
#242733 - 01/05/11 01:35 PM


> > GAME_IS_MECHANICAL has been added and 0.141u1 will include all of the PinMAME ROMs.
>
>
> Don't tell teh fruitz0r kiddies, you'll get a million and one ROM requests if certain
> UK gambling games get added...
>
> Just thinking about those games makes me sick!

Oh, please no - I still get 5 or so a day even now.

As for the original question, the Harry Levy/Crompton style pushers (that I'm familar with) tend to operate with one single rotating arm that is connected to a cam that pushes each tray out in turn. If the arm sticks a little during it's rotation, it will give the slight jerk that you mention, and I have seen and worked with machines where that jerky motion was far more obvious due to general wear and tear.



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Heihachi_73
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: JWallace]
#242744 - 01/05/11 05:36 PM


> Oh, please no - I still get 5 or so a day even now.

It's bad enough on the aristmk4/mk5 WIP over at Fruit-Emu. Despite it being a WIP thread for MAME, every second post ends up being ROM requests, or requests for the "emulators" of the four MK6 games, or requesting hacks to run (insert non-existent MK6 dump here which they also request to download) inside the fake emulators!

If those programs were actually emulators with embedded EPROM data (which they're not even close to) they would have been hacked to run other games long ago.

Right now though the focus is on getting some US-based MK4 games to work (eforest plus a few more yet to enter MAME, which missed the 0.141 release), as they are slightly different and fail if the wind blows on them - in fact, they don't even let you coin up yet because of the errors caused by unemulated items (and they are seemingly stuck with a $100 denomination where they'd usually be set to 5c).



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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: italie]
#243117 - 01/08/11 08:26 PM


> //expect my chexx hockey driver in u2.....

I've always hoped for a top-down arcade cabinet (like those new projector games), or a laid-flat-oriented monitor like those video pinball cabinets, to make "video foosball"/"video Chexx hockey"

Actually, some of the later ones had distinctive attract noises/music. Summoning M1 to the rescue? (for the non-discrete ones at least)

- Stiletto



Naoki
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Re: Ever play/operate a coin pusher? Question... new [Re: Tafoid]
#244601 - 01/25/11 11:16 PM


Which is where my confusion over Namco's Quick&Shoot wasn't on the DU list while other non-video games were e.e



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