italie |
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MAME owes italie many thank yous, hah
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That is a whole ton of fail crammed in there...
#241744 - 12/22/10 06:49 AM
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http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20026047-52.html
As much as I want to hate on Geek Squad and Matos for this one, I know it's not their faults. I'm sure they were trained from a Best Buy produced video, and just regurgitating what they've been fed.
That said, holy crap what a load of fail. It's worse than the counter guys at auto part stores lately....
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Re: That is a whole ton of fail crammed in there...
[Re: italie]
#241745 - 12/22/10 06:58 AM
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I couldn't get beyond the first one...15 seconds...disks to spin down...Should we park them too? Welcome to 1991
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Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
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Re: That is a whole ton of fail crammed in there...
[Re: italie]
#241757 - 12/22/10 01:43 PM
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Turning a computer on and off regularly is bad for it
...switching a machine on/off puts stress on the harddrives, that's for sure. But also it's not a good idea to let your machine run 24/5 or so, because consumer drives are not designed for this too.
You can put a keyboard you've spilled coffee on in the dishwasher
Generally, yes. Otherwise, that's for sure only for wired membrane keyboards. Some types of switches /PCBs don't like it that much...
I don't condone the overall tone and style of the article. It reads very cheap, too abstract, almost for the even less tech-savy.
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| Moose |
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Don't make me assume my ultimate form!
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Re: That is a whole ton of fail crammed in there...
[Re: igamabob]
#241759 - 12/22/10 02:00 PM
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> I couldn't get beyond the first one...15 seconds...disks to spin down...Should we
> park them too? Welcome to 1991
LOL, I still miss parkhd ....
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Moose
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| DMala |
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Sleep is overrated
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Re: That is a whole ton of fail crammed in there...
[Re: CrapBoardSoftware]
#241767 - 12/22/10 05:51 PM
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> Turning a computer on and off regularly is bad for it
> ...switching a machine on/off puts stress on the harddrives, that's for sure. But
> also it's not a good idea to let your machine run 24/5 or so, because consumer drives
> are not designed for this too.
From experience, this doesn't seem to matter much either way. My home machines are normally powered down nightly. My work system runs pretty much 24/7/365 so I can access it remotely when I'm away from the office. I haven't really noticed much of a difference in terms of failure rates. Hard drive failures have been pretty rare (knock on wood) in both places.
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| DMala |
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Sleep is overrated
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Re: That is a whole ton of fail crammed in there...
[Re: igamabob]
#241768 - 12/22/10 05:54 PM
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> I couldn't get beyond the first one...15 seconds...disks to spin down...Should we
> park them too? Welcome to 1991
It reminds me of the old nun who taught my grade school computer course on Apple IIe's. She used to accuse us of "shorting out the circuit boards" by turning the computer and the monitor on at the same time.
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| Hizzout |
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70's baby, early 80's child
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Re: That is a whole ton of fail crammed in there...
[Re: DMala]
#241770 - 12/22/10 09:07 PM
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I remember when I got a Commodore 128 for Christmas one year. I remember the manual stating that the computer should be turned on in a specific order. To help, it provided the acronym M.D.C. which stood for Monitor, Disk Drive, Computer, and to help you remember it had a nifty phrase which went "My Dear Computer".
Edited by Hizzout (12/22/10 09:08 PM)
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Re: That is a whole ton of fail crammed in there...
[Re: Moose]
#241783 - 12/23/10 02:19 AM
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> > I couldn't get beyond the first one...15 seconds...disks to spin down...Should we
> > park them too? Welcome to 1991
>
> LOL, I still miss parkhd ....
Nothing to do with disks. A lot of hardware, not just computers, advise a 10 to 15 second wait when resetting.
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| DMala |
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Sleep is overrated
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Re: That is a whole ton of fail crammed in there...
[Re: Hizzout]
#241786 - 12/23/10 02:49 AM
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> I remember when I got a Commodore 128 for Christmas one year. I remember the manual
> stating that the computer should be turned on in a specific order. To help, it
> provided the acronym M.D.C. which stood for Monitor, Disk Drive, Computer, and to
> help you remember it had a nifty phrase which went "My Dear Computer".
Oh man, I totally remember that.
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Re: That is a whole ton of fail crammed in there...
[Re: TriggerFin]
#241792 - 12/23/10 06:28 AM
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> > > I couldn't get beyond the first one...15 seconds...disks to spin down...Should we
> > > park them too? Welcome to 1991
> >
> > LOL, I still miss parkhd ....
>
> Nothing to do with disks. A lot of hardware, not just computers, advise a 10 to 15
> second wait when resetting.
It's to allow for resistor, diode and capacitor decay
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Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
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| Tomu Breidah |
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No Problems, Only Solutions
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Re: That is a whole ton of fail crammed in there...
[Re: igamabob]
#241800 - 12/23/10 07:46 AM
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> It's to allow for resistor, diode and capacitor decay
I had someone (tech support) to have me hold the power button on a computer for (maybe?) 30 seconds after having powered it down. I can't recall what the problem was or why I had to do it. 
But I guess it was to get rid of any electrical charge that would still be on the board.
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LEVEL-4
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Re: That is a whole ton of fail crammed in there...
[Re: Tomu Breidah]
#241809 - 12/23/10 12:24 PM
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> > It's to allow for resistor, diode and capacitor decay
>
> I had someone (tech support) to have me hold the power button on a computer for
> (maybe?) 30 seconds after having powered it down. I can't recall what the problem was
> or why I had to do it.
>
> But I guess it was to get rid of any electrical charge that would still be on the
> board.
...but it has to be disconnected from the grid also 
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Re: That is a whole ton of fail crammed in there...
[Re: igamabob]
#241835 - 12/23/10 09:27 PM
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> > > > I couldn't get beyond the first one...15 seconds...disks to spin down...Should
> we
> > > > park them too? Welcome to 1991
> > >
> > > LOL, I still miss parkhd ....
> >
> > Nothing to do with disks. A lot of hardware, not just computers, advise a 10 to 15
> > second wait when resetting.
>
> It's to allow for resistor, diode and capacitor decay
I was going to add "to dissipate any residual charge" to my sentence, but decided not to say, vaguely, what could be said with more specificity by someone else. 
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> Turning a computer on and off regularly is bad for it
> ...switching a machine on/off puts stress on the harddrives, that's for sure. But
> also it's not a good idea to let your machine run 24/5 or so, because consumer drives
> are not designed for this too.
So what if you happen to be a PleasureDome junkie? Or otherwise a torrent-junkie? Just grit your teeth and maintain backups while keeping a budget to replace drives and other failed components regularly?
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Re: About always-on
[Re: Mojo2000]
#241871 - 12/24/10 04:30 PM
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> > Turning a computer on and off regularly is bad for it
> > ...switching a machine on/off puts stress on the harddrives, that's for sure. But
> > also it's not a good idea to let your machine run 24/5 or so, because consumer
> drives
> > are not designed for this too.
>
> So what if you happen to be a PleasureDome junkie? Or otherwise a torrent-junkie?
> Just grit your teeth and maintain backups while keeping a budget to replace drives
> and other failed components regularly?
Dunno. I would myself not describe as a torrent junkie, but i use utorrent quite often. Never had a failed drive in my Raid 0+1 array, though. But the msot that i leave my machine(s) on is for let's say 5 days. More often i just shut them down after 24-48h.
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| italie |
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MAME owes italie many thank yous, hah
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> > > Turning a computer on and off regularly is bad for it
> > > ...switching a machine on/off puts stress on the harddrives, that's for sure. But
> > > also it's not a good idea to let your machine run 24/5 or so, because consumer
> > drives
> > > are not designed for this too.
> >
> > So what if you happen to be a PleasureDome junkie? Or otherwise a torrent-junkie?
> > Just grit your teeth and maintain backups while keeping a budget to replace drives
> > and other failed components regularly?
>
>
> Dunno. I would myself not describe as a torrent junkie, but i use utorrent quite
> often. Never had a failed drive in my Raid 0+1 array, though. But the msot that i
> leave my machine(s) on is for let's say 5 days. More often i just shut them down
> after 24-48h.
From an experience standpoint:
I run both a development server and my personal PC 24/7. Have been running PC's this way since the 386 days. Generally the power supplies are the only point of failure if you keep everything well ventilated. I haven't had a drive failure since the early '00s. I do upgrade motherboards and such every 3-5 years, and I'll rotate a new hard drive in the mix every so often and remove the oldest.
From a technical standpoint:
As long as you can keep the temperature semi-consistent, it isn't going to matter which route you go. The only components that will suffer drastically from long term consistent use are the capacitors, and cooling fans. If you go quality on both of those often you won't see an issue throughout a reasonable life cycle.
You aren't going to power cycle your equipment enough to damage it either, so if on/off is your bag, go with it. You might ~notice~ a cap failure quicker with this route though, as component related issues will effect a startup condition a considerable amount of time before than they would kill a steady state.
Also it's not so much USE that kills a hard disk, as it is things like dust, smoke, heat, moisture, power fluctuations, and vibrations.
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Re: About always-on
[Re: italie]
#241880 - 12/24/10 06:33 PM
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We have the PSU going tits up every so often in our lab. Seems the dust gathering around on the floor between the cables 'n stuff is not what they like... And i hit the caps problem here twice. That marked the end of ECS boards for me Anyway, 'bout that time every manufacturer had their problems with the caps.
What i meant with 'too much power cycling' is: there are people that boot up their machines, do something, and shut them down afterwards. If there's something again 30min. to 2h later, they do the same. THAT is not healthy... leave the comp on, the juice usage doesn't make up for the wear on drives.
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| italie |
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MAME owes italie many thank yous, hah
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> What i meant with 'too much power cycling' is: there are people that boot up their
> machines, do something, and shut them down afterwards. If there's something again
> 30min. to 2h later, they do the same. THAT is not healthy... leave the comp on, the
> juice usage doesn't make up for the wear on drives.
Negatory, unless you are talking a REEEEeeeeaaaallly old drive. HD's today are designed to be spun down tens of thousands of times. IIRC windows by default spins down drives after 30 min anyhow.
Unless your case isn't ventilated and you are talking about significant temperature cycling, I doubt you'd see much difference between a drive running for years and a drive power cycled 5 times a day. Now if you were talking about a drive running constantly for 2 years, and then immediately switch to a life of power cycling...now we might have potential for lube issues. Nothing a little KY can't fix though...
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| snake78 |
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sineku setenta y ocho
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Re: About always-on
[Re: italie]
#241906 - 12/25/10 05:59 AM
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> From an experience standpoint:
>
> I run both a development server and my personal PC 24/7. Have been running PC's this
> way since the 386 days. Generally the power supplies are the only point of failure if
> you keep everything well ventilated. I haven't had a drive failure since the early
> '00s. I do upgrade motherboards and such every 3-5 years, and I'll rotate a new hard
> drive in the mix every so often and remove the oldest.
I run my personal pc 24/7 too... I reboot when I need to, after an install, etc. I haven't had a hard drive failure since around 2002-3 (knock on wood)... at that time, I would power off the pc every day at least... but I think someone on here recommended not powering down so often...
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You should keep backups anyway
[Re: Mojo2000]
#241909 - 12/25/10 07:24 AM
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Acronis FTW 
during this year's in and out 7 month deployment, I had my first HDD failure since... perhaps 2001? Not a bad record I suppose. I always make fresh backups before deploying for situations like this. Unfortunately, the drive that failed was the drive I use for my downloads and torrents.... don't run backups on that one. I need to stop being so damn lazy and burn that stuff to disk more often!
Gonna attempt a temp repair buy using another controller board but I'm inexperienced in desoldering an IC and soldering back into place (have to move the HDD's BIOS chip to the new board)
Anyone know of a good video tutorial I can get my hands on?
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Just broke my personal record for number of consecutive days without dying!
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| redk9258 |
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Regular
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Re: You should keep backups anyway
[Re: URherenow]
#241910 - 12/25/10 07:59 AM
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Can't you just get a PCB from the same model drive?
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| DMala |
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Sleep is overrated
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Re: About always-on
[Re: italie]
#241911 - 12/25/10 08:09 AM
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> As long as you can keep the temperature semi-consistent, it isn't going to matter
> which route you go. The only components that will suffer drastically from long term
> consistent use are the capacitors, and cooling fans. If you go quality on both of
> those often you won't see an issue throughout a reasonable life cycle.
I've found that fans are probably the component that I've had to replace most often. For fans, quality seems to be inversely proportional to size. Those shitty little northbridge fans have failed on just about every machine I've ever had that had one. Video card fans are probably the next most common, followed by CPU. I don't think I've ever seen a case or power supply fan fail.
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Not according to my research :(
[Re: redk9258]
#241912 - 12/25/10 08:20 AM
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apparantly, each HDD has what is comparable to a fingerprint (always unique) and the BIOS is set for each individual HDD. So... I must both get the same exact controler board (which I have ordered) AND transfer the BIOS chip onto it from the *hopefully* bad board.
I say hopefully because if it's not the board then my data is gone  lots of download time in there.
oh and it took like 10 seconds to find soldering videos :P. I got solder wick, but I guess it was foolish of me not to grab a solder pump. I'll have one before my board gets here 
Edited by URherenow (12/25/10 08:22 AM)
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Just broke my personal record for number of consecutive days without dying!
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Index 
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That is a whole ton of fail crammed in there...
Reply
[Re: 
lots of download time in there. 
