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Cable
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New games in Mame
#236207 - 10/13/10 10:09 AM


Is there any set length of time before you consider working on a piece of hardware? Im just wondering if newer hardware is left until its been around a long time or do you guys work on creating drivers for them and then release them after a certain amount of years?



R. Belmont
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: Cable]
#236331 - 10/14/10 05:19 PM


> Is there any set length of time before you consider working on a piece of hardware?
> Im just wondering if newer hardware is left until its been around a long time or do
> you guys work on creating drivers for them and then release them after a certain
> amount of years?

In general nobody starts a driver until most of the games on it are safe under the 3 year rule. And drivers are submitted early and often because it's too painful to maintain things out of tree when Aaron and Atari Ace are gunning for core changes in every version. In other words, what you see in the whatsnew (and the developer WIP pages) is what you get.



ShimaPong
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: R. Belmont]
#236435 - 10/15/10 03:37 PM Attachment: FZ2006.png 77 KB (0 downloads)


> In general nobody starts a driver until most of the games on it are safe under the 3 year rule

So shinfz will be first game of breaking 3 year rule MAMEdevs-proven.
Now we can play the game created in 2008 on MAME.

And it gives a hint to add some 'passed on' games like Brikinger.
Someone has only to send a driver based on 'fake' PCB copied ROM image from others.


> what you see in the whatsnew (and the developer WIP pages) is what you get.

According to my best recollection, Dodonpachi Daioujyou (or Rapid Fire) was removed without any announcement in the whatsnew or WIP page though.

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"Any company has no power to stop people emulating"
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CrapBoardSoftware
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: ShimaPong]
#236447 - 10/15/10 05:24 PM


Is it just me or maybe your translation/way of writing, that too often you're sounding like complaining?



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: ShimaPong]
#236453 - 10/15/10 05:54 PM


Who gives a shit? You're seriously here complaining that a game slipped passed a self-imposed rule and then someone decided it would be more trouble than it's worth to remove it and re-add it in a few months? This is just troubling you. Ruined your day, hell your whole month. I don't get it.



Bryan Ischo
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: Smitdogg]
#236481 - 10/16/10 02:01 AM


> Who gives a shit? You're seriously here complaining that a game slipped passed a
> self-imposed rule and then someone decided it would be more trouble than it's worth
> to remove it and re-add it in a few months? This is just troubling you. Ruined your
> day, hell your whole month. I don't get it.

Was this really necessary? Even when the dude writes something half coherent and reasonable you have to jump all over him?



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: Bryan Ischo]
#236482 - 10/16/10 02:06 AM


> > Who gives a shit? You're seriously here complaining that a game slipped passed a
> > self-imposed rule and then someone decided it would be more trouble than it's worth
> > to remove it and re-add it in a few months? This is just troubling you. Ruined your
> > day, hell your whole month. I don't get it.
>
> Was this really necessary?

I don't post only when it's necessary.

> Even when the dude writes something half coherent and
> reasonable you have to jump all over him?

I didn't find it reasonable, obviously, and coherence doesn't earn very many points.



ShimaPong
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: Smitdogg]
#236518 - 10/16/10 03:39 PM Attachment: StarRaker.png 15 KB (1 downloads)


> Who gives a shit?
Already had given a shit. So it is not low-potential to add this type game in the future, I think.

> You're seriously here complaining that a game slipped passed a self-imposed rule and then someone decided it would be more trouble than it's worth to remove it and re-add it in a few months?
Sorry, I can't translate correctly (especially, 'slip pass')...
It is only fact that devs recieve the driver included with the game created in 2008 and it is now running on MAME.
And I understand it is one of silent answer and allowance by Aaron.
I don't kick against it but it is too unclarity.

> Ruined your day, hell your whole month
I'd be happy to waste my day if all MAME users keeps this fact in thier mind.
From my view, you look away this fact and forget it ever existed.

> I don't get it.
In this case, 'it' is what points?

[ATTACHED IMAGE]

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"Any company has no power to stop people emulating"
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SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: ShimaPong]
#236522 - 10/16/10 04:31 PM


What I'm saying is that I don't understand why you care that it hasn't been pulled out of MAME. I don't understand why that bothers you. It's just a guideline. Before there was the 3 year rule, there was the 2 year rule, and before that, there wasn't a year rule. At any rate, none of them are or were perfect and self-imposed rules aren't something for users to try and police.

I aim to get games for dumping that are at least 7 years old but it doesn't always work out that way and if I get a game some time that is only 3 or 4 years old I expect not to get bitched out for it by MAME users.



gamerfan
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: ShimaPong]
#236543 - 10/17/10 12:49 AM


I want to know this Prototype game Battle Bird from Irem. Can you tell me if this game had true 3D graphics (polygons), Pseudo 3D (Isometric) similar to Zaxxon, or did it use 2D graphics with a 3D view similar to Sega's After Burner?

Links:
http://unmamed.mameworld.info/pics/battlebird_magscan1.jpg
http://unmamed.mameworld.info/pics/battlebird_magscan2.jpg



ShimaPong
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: Smitdogg]
#236575 - 10/17/10 03:53 PM


> What I'm saying is that I don't understand why you care that it hasn't been pulled out of MAME

I don't want to pull out from MAME but I only want explicit (not silent) declaration from Aaron as official.
Perhaps you can't understand, one reason is my poor English so that I will be unable to tell what I communicate. So I don't want you to recognize my will. But only keep a fool in your mind.

> It's just a guideline. Before there was the 3 year rule, there was the 2 year rule, and before that, there wasn't a year rule

Sorry, I can't find any message in the guidline. And what is problem in this case if you say 'not year rule'?

> none of them are or were perfect and self-imposed rules aren't something for users to try and police.

So you say, 'MAME doesn't have rule and morality'? So it's OK to be selfish actually? ...I confused.

> I aim to get games for dumping that are at least 7 years old but it doesn't always work out that way and if I get a game some time that is only 3 or 4 years old I expect not to get bitched out for it by MAME users.

It's your self-policy but some dumper/ripper try to dump/rip and even attemp to send 'working' driver to official (and already some clone MAME have done).
I know some user says 'when does (official) MAME add fz2dx?' and it works now on MAME though it is a bootleg.
As it is now like so, I doubt MAME's rule and thinking.



"Any company has no power to stop people emulating"
MAME is the emulator of no giving in the pressure from any company even if they don't allow



franciscohs
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Reged: 10/04/08
Posts: 174
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: ShimaPong]
#236576 - 10/17/10 04:18 PM


> So you say, 'MAME doesn't have rule and morality'? So it's OK to be selfish actually?
> ...I confused.

I don't understand your problem really, MAME does have a morality, but it's not written in stone as a "3 year rule" or whatever. This is actually good, since they can look at each individual case and decide if something should be included or not (for whatever reason), even if it doesn't fall under the usual guidelines...

I think this is good and will produce better results to "the spirit" of the rule (or guideline), as long as who's deciding this kind of stuff is a moral person.



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: ShimaPong]
#236590 - 10/17/10 05:57 PM


> > What I'm saying is that I don't understand why you care that it hasn't been pulled
> out of MAME
>
> I don't want to pull out from MAME but I only want explicit (not silent) declaration
> from Aaron as official.
> Perhaps you can't understand, one reason is my poor English so that I will be unable
> to tell what I communicate. So I don't want you to recognize my will. But only keep a
> fool in your mind.

If you have a question for Aaron then e-mail him, we don't need a public outburst every time that game is brought up.

> > It's just a guideline. Before there was the 3 year rule, there was the 2 year rule,
> and before that, there wasn't a year rule
>
> Sorry, I can't find any message in the guidline. And what is problem in this case if
> you say 'not year rule'?

Just some history of the year rule(s) and saying it's a rough guideline. There's no law where someone is going to get 50 lashes if they put in a 2 year old bootleg.

> > none of them are or were perfect and self-imposed rules aren't something for users
> to try and police.
>
> So you say, 'MAME doesn't have rule and morality'? So it's OK to be selfish actually?
> ...I confused.

Nope, not saying that. I'm saying end users have no bearing on loose rules that mamedevs create for themselves. Whatever you think about the matter doesn't make any difference to them aside from having to put up with you bitching on public message boards about them. That's the extent of it.

> > I aim to get games for dumping that are at least 7 years old but it doesn't always
> work out that way and if I get a game some time that is only 3 or 4 years old I
> expect not to get bitched out for it by MAME users.
>
> It's your self-policy but some dumper/ripper try to dump/rip and even attemp to send
> 'working' driver to official (and already some clone MAME have done).
> I know some user says 'when does (official) MAME add fz2dx?' and it works now on MAME
> though it is a bootleg.
> As it is now like so, I doubt MAME's rule and thinking.

Just keep doubting it then. It doesn't make any difference. You could e-mail Aaron like I mentioned before but I really don't think he owes people explanations for every decision he makes.



tsubasa
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: ShimaPong]
#236624 - 10/18/10 03:31 AM


Then take this interpretation?

The "X year rule," There is an implicit informal guidelines.
Games, life and income measurement, the interests of fairness
Author, or any other law. MAME games can be avoided directly stealing money. (And take attention from the owner)

To prevent other users looking for a free instant game to arrive
Otherwise, they can be a new play for the money.

Fantasy Zone "pirated" are phantom of copyright infringement has been a rarity (Who is the victim? A Pirate?), This small-scale production of products and formulas are actually really special case (will it have ever been found) .

there is no laws, making exception does not make "loop hole"



ShimaPong
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: Smitdogg]
#236666 - 10/18/10 05:09 PM Attachment: StarRkr.png 16 KB (2 downloads)


> If you have a question for Aaron then e-mail him
I want 'Open' answer which will one of so that I dislike PM. It is meaningless that only I know.

> Just some history of the year rule(s) and saying it's a rough guideline
Sorry, I has not still know with my poor English. So please more info about it.

> There's no law where someone is going to get 50 lashes if they put in a 2 year old bootleg.
I can't undersatnd what does '50 lashes' means. What is required before the rule of 2 year?

> end users have no bearing on loose rules that mamedevs create for themselves.
End users doesn't need to withstand loose rules created by devs?
...Yes, all users always doesn't take it well even if the rule is loose and unstrict.
So I'm interestead to see a feeling from both developer's and end user's side on open place.

> Whatever you think about the matter doesn't make any difference to them aside from having to put up with you bitching on public message boards about them.
Of couse, I don't think devs change their rule. It will be only fact that fz2006 and fz2006II are based on PS2 version created in 2008. But I seems like you want to pervert this truth.

> before but I really don't think he owes people explanations for every decision he makes.
I think one reason of that some clone MAME is done in their own sweet way is no explanation. FZ II for system 16 and Brikinger was supported quickly also OST samples, Zinc Plug-in etcetc...
And my 'bitch and fuck' statement you say is repeated.
But if he think he has not to explain, I have no way and even unneed to force to do. So it is enough to keep it in his mind though too unclear.

> Just keep doubting it then. It doesn't make any difference
From my view, I wonder many users don't doubt and 'enjoy playing' a game like one of free games without any thinking and question (and sometimes correct knowledge).

[ATTACHED IMAGE]

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"Any company has no power to stop people emulating"
MAME is the emulator of no giving in the pressure from any company even if they don't allow



SmitdoggAdministrator
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: ShimaPong]
#236678 - 10/18/10 05:32 PM


> > If you have a question for Aaron then e-mail him
> I want 'Open' answer which will one of so that I dislike PM. It is meaningless that
> only I know.

OK. Well, I think you're blowing the whole thing out of proportion, but I'm tired of talking about it.

> > Just some history of the year rule(s) and saying it's a rough guideline
> Sorry, I has not still know with my poor English. So please more info about it.

I'm trying to say that any of MAME's self-imposed rules like this one shouldn't be taken as absolutes. They are loose guidelines, not laws of the land.

> > There's no law where someone is going to get 50 lashes if they put in a 2 year old
> bootleg.
> I can't undersatnd what does '50 lashes' means. What is required before the rule of 2
> year?

50 lashes is getting whipped on your back 50 times, an archaic punishment for breaking a law. Anyway, I understand how it might not translate correctly. Again, I'm just trying to make a point that you're taking the "rule" too seriously and absolutely.

> > end users have no bearing on loose rules that mamedevs create for themselves.
> End users doesn't need to withstand loose rules created by devs?

No, I'm saying they have no input on the situation. Nothing you are going to do makes any difference to them. They don't care what you think.

> ...Yes, all users always doesn't take it well even if the rule is loose and unstrict.

You're the only person complaining.

> So I'm interestead to see a feeling from both developer's and end user's side on open
> place.

Maybe Aaron will reply to you. I kind of hope he does at this point so this thread can die.

> > Whatever you think about the matter doesn't make any difference to them aside from
> having to put up with you bitching on public message boards about them.
> Of couse, I don't think devs change their rule. It will be only fact that fz2006 and
> fz2006II are based on PS2 version created in 2008. But I seems like you want to
> pervert this truth.

Nope, I saw the year info you dug out of the code. I'm not perverting any truth. What I'm saying is it doesn't matter if there is occasionally a mistake made like this where a game gets added because it appears to be 4 years old instead of 2 and a decision is made that it's more of a hassle than it's worth to rip it out and add it back in a few months. It doesn't matter to anybody but you. That's why you are the only person complaining.

> > before but I really don't think he owes people explanations for every decision he
> makes.
> I think one reason of that some clone MAME is done in their own sweet way is no
> explanation. FZ II for system 16 and Brikinger was supported quickly also OST
> samples, Zinc Plug-in etcetc...

I don't understand most of this. That bootleg NeoGeo cart will supposedly get added 3 years after the Wii release, which maybe doesn't make a whole lot of sense but there's no reason to whine about it continuously.

> And my 'bitch and fuck' statement you say is repeated.
> But if he think he has not to explain, I have no way and even unneed to force to do.
> So it is enough to keep it in his mind though too unclear.

I don't really understand what this means, anyway maybe he will reply and the thread can die because you don't seem to like my explanations.

> > Just keep doubting it then. It doesn't make any difference
> From my view, I wonder many users don't doubt and 'enjoy playing' a game like one of
> free games without any thinking and question (and sometimes correct knowledge).

I don't think I really understand this either... I don't think other users are feeling more guilty about a 2 year old bootleg being supported in one of their programs than a 3 year old hit. And nobody is forcing people to download roms for boards they don't own. But to each his own, this thread sucks, peace out.



RdW
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: Smitdogg]
#236697 - 10/18/10 07:48 PM


I think it's pointless to discuss mame guidelines with shimapong because he is still angry about the cheat system rewrite. So he takes every chance to shout to the developers about mame's inconsistencies and tries to tease the users with his his hoarded cheats / cheat system.
It is just annoying.



CrapBoardSoftware
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: RdW]
#236698 - 10/18/10 07:56 PM


> I think it's pointless to discuss mame guidelines with shimapong because he is still
> angry about the cheat system rewrite. So he takes every chance to shout to the
> developers about mame's inconsistencies and tries to tease the users with his his
> hoarded cheats / cheat system.
> It is just annoying.

Indeed, and i really hope not all Japanese guys that are "into emulation/arcade" are like him. This thread sucks. Korinthenkacker.



R. Belmont
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Re: New games in Mame new [Re: CrapBoardSoftware]
#236704 - 10/18/10 09:26 PM


> Indeed, and i really hope not all Japanese guys that are "into emulation/arcade" are
> like him. This thread sucks. Korinthenkacker.

Not all, just many, unfortunately. It really hurts on the MESS side where proper dumps of a lot of Japanese home computers are the subject of a giant game of "keep away from gaijin".


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