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[DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
#218797 - 04/03/10 11:35 AM
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Hi.
I'm Fabrice, 37, living in France.
As far as I know, I'm the only known owner of a SEGA Space Ship cabinet.
http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=12823
http://www.arcadeflyers.com/?page=thumbs&db=videodb&id=3025
http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=683&page=1#3127
http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=20677.0
Game & PCB are (with no doubt possible) original SEGA's.
The PCB was failing and I fixed it twice (it failed again 1 week after the first fix).
Game is a 99% clone of Cinematronic's Space Wars (Mame dir "spacewar").
There is difference in code handling the time per credit.
For the same dip-switch settings, SEGA awards you more play time.
Cinematronics : settings are 45s / 1 min / 1 min 30 / 2 min per credit
Sega : settings are 1 min / 1 min 30 / 2 min / 2 min 30 per credit.
Difference is in game's code, not in electronics.
There are also some differences in some PROM that handle internal CCPU tasks, but theses differences are in unused bits (why ?).
I offer to the Mame community to finish my dumping task (I dumped only 20% of the PROMs, needed for my repair) and to add this "new" game to Mame.
My questions is : is the Mame community interrested in this offer ?
Regards,
Fab
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#218798 - 04/03/10 11:42 AM
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of course! would be great if you could finish the dumping-task...
Edited by Team Europe (04/03/10 11:43 AM)
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| f205v |
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Dumper
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#218806 - 04/03/10 05:02 PM
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Yes, it would be great to have this game correctly dumped and documented.
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Ciao
f205v
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Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#218818 - 04/03/10 07:10 PM
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> I offer to the Mame community to finish my dumping task (I dumped only 20% of the
> PROMs, needed for my repair) and to add this "new" game to Mame.
>
> My questions is : is the Mame community interrested in this offer ?
You win! I've pretty much never seen games from that flyer "In Real Life". I was starting to think that most of them had never even been produced. Even with Yasu telling me otherwise, I just couldn't find the evidence of them.
Yes, I would say, document it to kingdom come. Scan the schematics, dump the ROMs, scan or photograph the bezel, control panel, marquee, and side art. Photograph or scan the PCBs. Whatever you can do would be great and highly appreciated! 
- Stiletto
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: Stiletto]
#218836 - 04/03/10 10:25 PM
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Seeing that "Space Ship" is not a discrete logic game, but a Japan revision of an USA game made me try to find out if other games on the flyer were also revisions of USA games. I am sure I have found out what two of the games are, it is hard to tell, but the screen shots are identical. "Seesaw Jump" is a revision of "Clowns", and "Super Bowl" is a revision of "Robot Bowl" with a backdrop or overlay.
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| TrevEB |
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Brokering peace between the collectors and the Mame Community
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#218862 - 04/04/10 01:18 AM
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We would like to have that beautiful artwork too. 
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| gregf |
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#218870 - 04/04/10 03:11 AM
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>As far as I know, I'm the only known owner of a SEGA Space Ship cabinet.
That is a find there imo.
http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=12823
http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=20677.0
http://www.arcadeflyers.com/?page=thumbs&db=videodb&id=3025
http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=683&page=1#3127
That old entry from well over 10 years earlier might be a mistake. Back in 2000, there weren't as many web sites to refer to regarding any questions of games made back in 1970s. TAFA (arcadeflyers.com) was just getting started at the time as well.
Good researching there on your part.
=========
Game & PCB are (with no doubt possible) original SEGA's.
The PCB was failing and I fixed it twice (it failed again 1 week after the first fix).
Game is a 99% clone of Cinematronic's Space Wars (Mame dir "spacewar").
There is difference in code handling the time per credit.
For the same dip-switch settings, SEGA awards you more play time.
Cinematronics : settings are 45s / 1 min / 1 min 30 / 2 min per credit
Sega : settings are 1 min / 1 min 30 / 2 min / 2 min 30 per credit.
Difference is in game's code, not in electronics.
There are also some differences in some PROM that handle internal CCPU tasks, but theses differences are in unused bits (why ?).
I offer to the Mame community to finish my dumping task (I dumped only 20% of the PROMs, needed for my repair) and to add this "new" game to Mame.
My questions is : is the Mame community interrested in this offer ?
=======
As Stiletto mentions, it is yes. Having all of the roms/proms backed up should help assist other pcb owners in case someone else happens to have a pcb and needs to repair/replace a prom chip in the future. A few folks here can testify about being able to repair their pcbs in case a rom has gone sour on the pcb such as some of the early 1980s games hardware.
Sega Space Ship should eventually be in the Cinematronics driver as likely a clone of Cinematronics. I am guessing Sega licensed from Cinematronics back then.
--------
http://mamedev.org/source/src/mame/drivers/cinemat.c.html
1481 GAME( 1977, spacewar, 0, spacewar, spacewar, 0, ORIENTATION_FLIP_Y, "Cinematronics", "Space Wars", GAME_IMPERFECT_SOUND | GAME_SUPPORTS_SAVE )
http://maws.mameworld.info/maws/srch.php?by=name&driver=160&order=desc
http://maws.mameworld.info/maws/romset/spacewar
---------
If you can provide the label names of roms/proms on pcb, dump data from the roms and proms from pcb, list part numbers from the pcb, all that information could eventually be added to the Cinemat.c driver file.
see Stiletto, if needing to sometime later on.
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...amp;sb=5&o=
stephh is another person to talk to. Adding dip switch info to some of the drivers is his area.
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...amp;sb=5&o=
As for artwork, if able to add that later, such as that bezel piece, vectorzorg is the person you want to talk to if needing to get any scanning tips.
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...amp;sb=5&o=
Thanks if able to have anything of Sega Space Ship documented in MAME later.
btw: The minor issue with the games in Cinematronics driver file, is they still use external audio files that are still needed for playing some of the audio effects.
Since many of the games did not have roms storing audio, adding code to support discrete audio hardware is still needed for the games in Cinematronics driver. So far, most of the games with discrete audio emulation are Midway 8080 hardware, various Atari 1970s era games, and some of the Nintendo games (Donkey Kong, Mario etc), a couple of the Gremlin vicdual.c hardware games.
If you have a manual and logic schematics for Sega Space Ship, getting those scanned later might be needed because there could be the possibility that audio sounds generated from Sega Space Ship might be played slightly different compared to Cinematronic Space Wars.
The games might look the same, but game play might be different and audio might be different as well.
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#218871 - 04/04/10 03:24 AM
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: Sune]
#219033 - 04/06/10 02:28 AM
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> Atari Shark Jaws receiving similar treatment from Fabrice:
> http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=20226.0
>
Nice! Does anything need to be archived from that one? Although it's non-CPU, it probably uses ROM's for the sprites. Schematics if available and high-res PCB scans would probably be useful for eventual discrete emulation. Plus, the bezel looks pretty cool. It's a shame there aren't more of those old games around.
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: ranger_lennier]
#219297 - 04/09/10 07:42 PM
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The Shark Jaws PCB is only TTL. There's no CPU.
There are 2 small bipolar PROMs on the PCB that store the diver, fish & shark gfx.
Each of them is 256 x 4 bits (yeahhhh).
I was planing to dump then also.
As far as I know, Mame emulates hardware with one or more CPU.
Since Shark Jaws has no CPU, there is no Mame emulation possible ?
In this case, I'm not sure Shark Jaws's dump would be useful for Mame.
But of course it would help anybody in the need to restore his PCB with dead PROMs.
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| Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#219302 - 04/09/10 07:58 PM
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> The Shark Jaws PCB is only TTL. There's no CPU.
> There are 2 small bipolar PROMs on the PCB that store the diver, fish & shark gfx.
> Each of them is 256 x 4 bits (yeahhhh).
>
> I was planing to dump then also.
> As far as I know, Mame emulates hardware with one or more CPU.
> Since Shark Jaws has no CPU, there is no Mame emulation possible ?
> In this case, I'm not sure Shark Jaws's dump would be useful for Mame.
>
> But of course it would help anybody in the need to restore his PCB with dead PROMs.
Let's see if I can beat gregf to the punch...
There's been some developments this year with regards to analog/discrete circuitry simulation, outside of MAME, by a former/current/occasional MAME developer.
See here:
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=208582
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=209845
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=210014
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=211400
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=211654
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=212202
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=213090
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=213822
It's possible that this time the simulation might be accepted into MAME. If not, then it will just become a popular spinoff project.
So, yes, it is possible. I haven't heard much from Juergen recently, hopefully he hasn't hit a brick wall or anything.
- Stiletto
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| gregf |
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#219349 - 04/10/10 08:40 AM
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>The Shark Jaws PCB is only TTL. There's no CPU.
>There are 2 small bipolar PROMs on the PCB that store the diver, fish & shark gfx.
>Each of them is 256 x 4 bits (yeahhhh).
>I was planing to dump then also.
>But of course it would help anybody in the need to restore his PCB with dead PROMs.
Yep. It would be ideal thing in case other pcb owners of the game need to find backup data in case the prom data goes sour on a Shark Jaws pcb.
There is already a nice start with some of the Ramtek non-cpu games (Clean Sweep, Baseball, Wipe Out), some non-cpu Atari games, a couple Exidy games, a couple Meadows games etc in which the proms have been dumped.
I don't know if Atari Shark Jaws is one of those that has been dumped earlier. Anti-aircraft, Jet Fighter, Stunt Cycle have been dumped earlier. I am pretty certain Outlaw and Steeplechase haven't been dumped yet.
>As far as I know, Mame emulates hardware with one or more CPU.
>Since Shark Jaws has no CPU, there is no Mame emulation possible ?
>In this case, I'm not sure Shark Jaws's dump would be useful for Mame.
Non-cpu emulation is somewhat gaining ground here and there. One huge change was last year in which Aaron restructured MAME source code and had various hardware being treated as a "device" and this also included cpus. That was one barrier that stood in the way and now no longer an issue.
There other issues such as roms/proms from various games not dumped yet, paperwork/schematics not yet accounted for, but that is the small stuff
compared to what else needs to be done if ever able to add support into MAME later.
*Adding to what Stiletto already posted ;-) *
I don't have a non-cpu status page completed [Discrete Logistics], but did a reply post
to Stiletto's post of what paperwork that I know of is accounted for. (logic schematics etc.) Stiletto probably has a current updated list.
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
Keep Juergen's web pages handy because Juergen was getting things started with preliminary TTL emulation. One can download some of the source code and executable files and run some of the non-cpu games that are all-TTL components [no roms]: pong, Space Race, Rebound.
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http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
http://pmbits.ath.cx/sedit
http://pmbits.ath.cx/pong/
http://pmbits.ath.cx/ttl/
=======
An issue that does presnt a challenge with non-cpu emulation is "Analog emulation"
Read the thread with discussion between Juergen and couriersud.
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http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
pullmoll
couriersud
-------
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#219615 - 04/13/10 10:35 PM
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Here we go :
There are some small changes still to do :
- create specific input ports struct for this game (currently using spacewar's)
- check main oscillator frequency: Cinematronics seems to have a 19.923 MHz oscillator and Sega has a 19.968 MHz.
- check with dev team driver's name (I'm using currently "spaceshi")
- check with dev team file names in spaceshi.zip ; I tried to follow rules, but I'm not sure
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#219617 - 04/13/10 10:55 PM
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Nice job. Speaking of this and Space War, I can't get Space War to start. I've pressed every button that the game assigns.
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: Smitdogg]
#219619 - 04/13/10 11:26 PM
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Strange...
Press "5" to add credit(s).
Game gives time for each credit.
Then using keypad, any number from 0 ~ 9 will start the game :
0: no central star gravity, slow ships speed
1: no central star gravity, fast ships speed
2: no central star gravity, ultra-fast ships speed
3: no central star gravity, central star hidden, slow ships speed
4: central star gravity, middle ships speed
5: central star gravity, middle ships speed, lightweight ships (burst engine efficient)
6: central star gravity, middle ships speed, heavy ships (burst engine not very efficient)
7: central star gravity, middle ships speed, middle weight ships (burst engine normal) <= my preference
8: like 7, but with less fuel
9: like 8 ; asteroid seems to be affected by gravity
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#219620 - 04/13/10 11:29 PM
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Thanks, I figured it out. I was using the regular number keys to try to get it to start and you must use the keypad.
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#219621 - 04/13/10 11:29 PM
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<3 your work f4brice!
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#223165 - 05/29/10 03:00 PM
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So did this get dumped and submitted?
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: Smitdogg]
#227256 - 07/14/10 02:37 PM
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Hi.
Change to 0.138u3 source code has just been submitted !
I wanted exact dip switches description and little help from etabeta let me finish the job.
Hope to see my work in next MAME release ! 
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#227271 - 07/14/10 09:16 PM
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>Change to 0.138u3 source code has just been submitted.
>I wanted exact dip switches description and little help from etabeta let me finish the
>job. Hope to see my work in next MAME release.
Thanks for working with the game and allowing it to be emulated/preserved.
http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=683&page=1#3127
With Space Ship being documented, it means System 16 can have the Space Ship entry moved from the DISCRETE LOGIC HARDWARE page ovet to the LICENSED GAMES HARDWARE page.
I like the Midway Wheels video clips since it shows how the non-cpu video game operates. There should be a green color plexi overlay piece on top of the monitor, but over time those pieces get broken or discarded when a monitor is replaced.
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: gregf]
#227277 - 07/14/10 10:51 PM
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I also did some documentation work :
- Wiring diagram scan (pdf)
- Parts catalog scan (pdf)
- PCB pinout (txt)
- Screen pinout (txt)
Maybe it's a stupid question, but how to spread them ?
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#227278 - 07/14/10 10:55 PM
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> I also did some documentation work :
>
>
> Wiring diagram scan (pdf)
> Parts catalog scan (pdf)
> PCB pinout (txt)
> Screen pinout (txt)
>
>
> Maybe it's a stupid question, but how to spread them ?
There are various manual documentation places on the web for arcade games. The one that seems to have the most steam lately is TAMDB (google should find you a way there).
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: f4brice]
#227281 - 07/14/10 11:40 PM
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>I also did some documentation work :
>Wiring diagram scan (pdf)
>Parts catalog scan (pdf)
If wanting to, the pdf files can be uploaded on MAME Chat forum.
I did same thing earlier this year with the 1974 Nintendo WG manual when also adding various links, and the old videoclips with one of the clips with Mr. Do, Zephyr, Pete (doing the video recording), and myself doing most of the talking in the video.
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http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
----------
*Teh' old image still cracks me up. I forgot who did it, but it is funny.* 
As for the hardware info, the driver files are the perfect place since MAME source code.
Web sites come and go, while MAME source code will outlast many web sites.
>PCB pinout (txt)
>Screen pinout (txt)
All the text/ascii hardware Space Ship info should be within the Cinematronics vector hardware file: http://mamedev.org/source/src/mame/drivers/cinemat.c.html
The Space Ship hardware info should be placed just below the Space Ship rom definition section.
--------
1177 ROM_START( spacewar )
1178 ROM_REGION( 0x1000, "maincpu", 0 )
1179 ROM_LOAD16_BYTE( "spacewar.1l", 0x0000, 0x0800, CRC(edf0fd53) )
1180 ROM_LOAD16_BYTE( "spacewar.2r", 0x0001, 0x0800, CRC(4f21328b) )
1181
1182 CCPU_PROMS
1183 ROM_END
ROM_START( segaspaceship???)
CCPU_PROMS
ROM_END
--------------------
Some visual examples to work with are either the Funworld driver file
or maybe the 8080 black/white hardware driver file for some high quality reference material.
==========
http://mamedev.org/source/src/mame/drivers/funworld.c.html
4 FUNWORLD / TAB.
5
6 Original preliminary driver: Curt Coder, Peter Trauner.
7 Rewrite and aditional work: Roberto Fresca.
3527 /*
3528
3529 Impera - Jolly Joker
3530
3531 PCB Layout:
http://mamedev.org/source/src/mame/drivers/8080bw.c.html
8080bw.c
2235 /* unknown gun game by Model Racing, possibly Gun Champ?
2236
2237 BOARD 1:
=============
I like to mention those 2 for my preference because they include almost everything.
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| jcroach |
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: TrevEB]
#250936 - 04/05/11 10:41 PM
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> We would like to have that beautiful artwork too.
Sorry to resurrect this old thread. Did the artwork for this game ever get scanned?
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| Sune |
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Re: [DUMP] Offer to dump & emulate SEGA Space Ship
[Re: jcroach]
#250937 - 04/05/11 10:55 PM
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> > We would like to have that beautiful artwork too.
>
> Sorry to resurrect this old thread.
Oh no, the hordes of SEGA fans posting here lately will be all over this thread in a minute.
Brace yourselves for impact!
S
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