GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
#210512 - 01/07/10 03:52 AM
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If you talk to a gold dealer, they say buy gold bars... coins cost a premium for minting the coin, and the odds of having gold confiscated by the government (as the US did back in 1934 to citizens who survived the stock market crash by buying gold beforehand) is "less likely than being abducted by aliens" since the US dollar is no longer backed by gold.
If you talk to a gold money-changer, they say buy gold coins, because they can be spent like cash, and are less likely to be confiscated by the government to help it recover from a crash since even in 1934 the US Government didn't confiscate collectible coins, just currency gold. (Yet they are selling you currency coins, not rare collectible coins... so kind of a big hole in that argument).
Gold dealers and changers alike says get the gold in your hand, don't accept a certificate... if the shit hits the fan and that gold-broker company folds... you may never see your gold... you'll be stuck with a worthless piece of paper. Gold brokers say baloney, why pay all that shipping when they can hold it for you, backed and insured against loss.
If you go with coins, South African Kurrugands seem like the world standard coin, most widely used, and cheaper than the American Eagle gold coins... and gold, when melted down, is gold no matter who minted it.
Anybody here know anything about gold investing?
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: GatKong]
#210513 - 01/07/10 04:07 AM
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Coins that can be 'spent like money' are worth their face value, no matter how much you paid for them, PROVIDED they are actual US mintings and NOT from one of those other 'mints'. If I were to buy gold, I'd buy for weight rather than currency, but even at that, it's probably going to be nearly impossible to find someone to actually give you 'going rate' for the gold, or even give you what you paid for it in the first place. remember that gold is not currency.
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Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
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I'm glad this isn't something about World of Warcraft
[Re: GatKong]
#210520 - 01/07/10 06:30 AM
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Do people still actually play the game; is Blizzard still in business in 2010? 
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| DMala |
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Sleep is overrated
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Re: I'm glad this isn't something about World of Warcraft
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#210524 - 01/07/10 07:13 AM
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> Do people still actually play the game; is Blizzard still in business in 2010?
Heh, that was my first thought, too. You're kidding about Blizzard, right? Starcraft 2 is coming out, they're all placing orders for new Bentleys right now.
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| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: igamabob]
#210525 - 01/07/10 07:25 AM
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>Coins that can be 'spent like money' are worth their face value, no matter how much you paid for them
See, gold investing is so confusing... that's why I was hoping someone knew something about it, because I'm trying to get schooled on this whole scene. The prediction is a US currency crisis is coming... which is why gold is sky-rocketing.
Government currency coins stamped with a "dollar" amount are not bullion coins, and have very little of the "metal" they are named after, like silver dollars and such. So if the US dollar hits a currency crisis, that silver dollar likewise will be basically worthless except to a collector if its a rare currency coin.
Gold bullion coins aren't marked with currency, they're actual gold alloy marked with their weight... so their worth is tied to the market price of gold minus a fudge-factor for the mint premium for who minted the coin itself. Usually fractions or whole numbers of an ounce. I did read that the smaller the coin, the less efficient the investment since you pay the same minting premium for each coin, thus more money wasted on minting and not on the buying of actual gold. Another argument for buying bars... no minting premium wasting your investment... The down side to bars is no government seal assures the quality and purity of the gold... you could be buying a brick of shit.
US minted coins cost more than South African coins for whatever reason, even though when melted they are worth the same.... so what I understand is paying the extra for a U.S. minted coin is dumb... which is why South African coins are a favored coin.
edit: I just saw this video which explained why US coins are more expensive. Basically US minted Eagle gold coins are "legal tender" in the US and therefore are not reportable transactions... so you could buy or sell millions of dollars of Eagle coins, and nothing is required to be reported, whereas South African or other government coins are considered a commodity transaction, and must be reported to the IRS on a form 1099B. So a major privacy factor in buying US minted coins... thus they cost more.
Man, so much to learn if you want to squirrel away some tender for insurance against a currency crisis.
Quote:
I'm thinking maybe invest in arcade tokens instead of gold coins.
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: GatKong]
#210550 - 01/07/10 05:22 PM
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IMHO silver is the better deal right now, when comparing the historic gold/silver ratio. I own a good amount of silver bullion coins.
I think owning at least 50/50 is the better way to go than just having gold. Another advantage is that silver is much easier to use if having to barter for smaller valued items.
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: GatKong]
#210577 - 01/07/10 11:18 PM
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I have a friend who makes a living trading gold, and he only trades bars. He's not doing it for long term investment - just short term profit (buy low/sell high). If you want to actually have the gold in your hand, foil is another thing to think about - more convenient than bars, but less minting premium than coins. I don't think it's really worth the premium to get coins - you'll always find someone who wants to buy bars or foil.
Getting gold as an exchange-traded commodity (ETC) as contract notes isn't as risky as the dealers would have you believe (remember it's in their interest to convince you to buy gold off them). The issuers are all the kinds of companies that are most likely to be bailed out by a government if they do come close to going under. If you do go this way, go with a company that primarily acts as an issuer for ETCs - you don't want to go with a hedge fund that does it on the side, as they'd be more likely to be doing risky things with borrowed money.
Just my random thoughts - hope it doesn't make you more confused.
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: twisty]
#210602 - 01/08/10 08:34 AM
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yes twisty's right on,
silver is more spendable, when paper looses its value.
i believe pre 1964 or so is the right silver content to seek in a dollar coin form,
90% or above as it can be best traded for a set amount say 90% of market value.
its believed one coin a week will feed an average family, $20 or so.
i remember when we were kids we (found) a bunch of old paper money the bank was to destroy.
we were not aware it was backed by gold and silver, we had rcmp's all over us, as we frantically spent a fortune in silver and gold bullion and turned it all into arcade tolkens.
even at the fair you could cash in your paper for silver dollar coins and half dollar pieces that were never seen in circulation at face value, for a crack at crown and anchors.
i finally recovered my password, wasn't even that hard either. lol
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| Tom Braider |
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No Problems, Only Solutions
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: GatKong]
#210615 - 01/08/10 11:04 AM
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: myclone]
#210619 - 01/08/10 03:07 PM
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Btw APMEX.com is a reputable online precious metals dealer - can't go wrong with their silver bullion.
And I completely agree with it being a real good idea to keep a large amount of ones $$$ in PM's instead of currency. At any time the banks could close for a "holiday" and overnight devalue the dollar by half or more in a crisis situation. Every single fiat currency in the history of man has eventually collapsed - because it's just a scheme based on faith alone, and not tangible goods with intrinsic value.
And even if it doesn't outright collapse, they keep flooding more dollars into the system which destroys its value over time. IOW, its a wasting asset.
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| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: Tom Braider]
#210630 - 01/08/10 04:57 PM
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>I read somewhere that the dollar stopped being backed by gold because it was hurting the farmers.
That was a front story for why to take the dollar off the gold standard so people would support it... the real reason is because governments on a gold standard can't print more money without aquiring more gold to back it up. Off the gold standard, the government can simply pay it's bills by simply printing more money... as the US is doing that right now in record quantities.... which devalues the dollar... which is happening now... which is why foregin governments are dumping U.S. debt because they don't want to be paid back with devalued freshingly printed money like its off a xerox machine... which is what is driving the current impending crisis in the currency. If the middle east drops the dollar as it's sole currency for crude oil exchnage, the dollar will crash like it never has before, and the US will experience inflation not unlike Zimbobway did... yeah, in Zimbobway you couldn't buy one cement brick for the same amount of money as what would purchase a house the year before it due to its laughably pathetic inflation rate literally being in the quadruple digits.
You might want to buy some gold, or silver. Don't go panicy nutz about it, but all the same don't keep all your equity in one basket either... and like 99.999% of Americans (I made that number up) hold exclusively U.S. Dollars for their savings. That's one basket. A basket woven out of U.S. dollars.
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| jopezu |
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bread-train
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: twisty]
#210642 - 01/08/10 06:30 PM
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> Btw APMEX.com is a reputable online precious metals dealer - can't go wrong with
> their silver bullion.
>
> And I completely agree with it being a real good idea to keep a large amount of ones
> $$$ in PM's instead of currency. At any time the banks could close for a "holiday"
> and overnight devalue the dollar by half or more in a crisis situation. Every single
> fiat currency in the history of man has eventually collapsed - because it's just a
> scheme based on faith alone, and not tangible goods with intrinsic value.
>
> And even if it doesn't outright collapse, they keep flooding more dollars into the
> system which destroys its value over time. IOW, its a wasting asset.
"Under current federal law, gold bullion can be confiscated by the federal government in times of national crisis."
i wonder if they'll confiscate silver?
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i learned everything i know from KC
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| jopezu |
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bread-train
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: twisty]
#210644 - 01/08/10 06:50 PM
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> Btw APMEX.com is a reputable online precious metals dealer - can't go wrong with
> their silver bullion.
>
> And I completely agree with it being a real good idea to keep a large amount of ones
> $$$ in PM's instead of currency. At any time the banks could close for a "holiday"
> and overnight devalue the dollar by half or more in a crisis situation. Every single
> fiat currency in the history of man has eventually collapsed - because it's just a
> scheme based on faith alone, and not tangible goods with intrinsic value.
>
> And even if it doesn't outright collapse, they keep flooding more dollars into the
> system which destroys its value over time. IOW, its a wasting asset.
wow... just looking around is surprising! i didn't realize gold was that much more expensive than silver.
2010 1oz gold maple leaf - $1200
2010 1oz silver maple leaf - $20
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: jopezu]
#210698 - 01/09/10 02:19 AM
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> wow... just looking around is surprising! i didn't realize gold was that much more
> expensive than silver.
>
> 2010 1oz gold maple leaf - $1200
> 2010 1oz silver maple leaf - $20
Fun fact: there is less above ground silver bullion than gold. The reason is because silver continually gets used up for industrial uses.
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: jopezu]
#210704 - 01/09/10 02:34 AM
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> "Under current federal law, gold bullion can be confiscated by the federal government
> in times of national crisis."
>
>
> i wonder if they'll confiscate silver?
As far as private ownership goes, the total amount of both combined wouldn't even be a drop in the bucket compared to the currency issued nowadays. Realistically, the chances are between nill and none. They would simply print more dollars as needed because there is no longer any metals backing them.
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| jopezu |
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bread-train
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: twisty]
#210725 - 01/09/10 06:26 AM
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> > "Under current federal law, gold bullion can be confiscated by the federal
> government
> > in times of national crisis."
> >
> >
> > i wonder if they'll confiscate silver?
>
> As far as private ownership goes, the total amount of both combined wouldn't even be
> a drop in the bucket compared to the currency issued nowadays. Realistically, the
> chances are between nill and none. They would simply print more dollars as needed
> because there is no longer any metals backing them.
well, if they did get confiscated, obviously the old value of the currency cashbed is irrelevant - they could just reappropriate (artificially modify) the new value of metals.
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: GatKong]
#210746 - 01/09/10 02:29 PM
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If you’re that worried about a currency collapse then save your money for ammunition, flour, chicken feed, and canned goods. Also barbed wire and camouflaged duds.
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: jopezu]
#210747 - 01/09/10 02:49 PM
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> they could just reappropriate (artificially modify) the new value of
> metals.
They can't, it's a global market now with several big players. Any artificially set price by a given government would have no meaning in the real world.
Furthermore, there is no reason to do this regardless, because as I previously mentioned the currency is no longer backed by metal. The only reason why the confiscation occurred before was because the US had promised the world gold convertibility.
Any wealth confiscation from here on in will occur by taxation & inflation of the currency.
Quote:
The US dollar as the world’s reserve currency
In 1931 President Roosevelt confiscated all privately held gold in the United States. After the confiscation, the US government offered to pay first $17 an ounce and then later, in 1934, $35 an ounce for foreign gold. A substantial portion of the gold in the world was sold to the United States and every dollar outside the US was convertible into gold. It was these two elements, the fact that the US owned a large percentage of the gold and the fact that the dollar was convertible into gold that enabled the US dollar to become the reserve currency of the world.
In 1971 when President Nixon reneged on the US’s promise of conversion it was too late for the rest of the world. There were too many dollars out there already and besides, no other major country’s currency was then still backed by gold so there wasn’t any quick substitute for the dollar as an international reserve currency. At that point it was also impossible for politicians to convert back to a gold standard, as it would have required astronomical gold prices. So the US dollar remained the reserve currency, not because of the US’s huge economy, or its monetary and fiscal policies, but merely as a remnant of the time when the US owned the most gold and the dollar was convertible into gold.
http://www.paulvaneeden.com/Understanding.the.gold.price
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| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: Darth Mario]
#210792 - 01/10/10 12:17 AM
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>save your money for ammunition, flour, chicken feed, and canned goods. Also barbed wire and camouflaged duds.
Sounds like your worried about government and infrastructure collapse, not a currency crisis. A currency crisis is predicted... I don't think anyone realistically thinks the government will collapse. But if your right, you can post a big "I told you so".
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: GatKong]
#210796 - 01/10/10 02:55 AM
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> > save your money for ammunition, flour, chicken feed, and canned goods. Also barbed
> wire and camouflaged duds.
>
> Sounds like your worried about government and infrastructure collapse, not a currency
> crisis. A currency crisis is predicted... I don't think anyone realistically thinks
> the government will collapse. But if your right, you can post a big "I told you so".
yeah, I wrote "currency collapse" not "courrency crisis"
and yeah, money does make the world go 'round.
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| guppy |
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MAME Fan
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: GatKong]
#210825 - 01/10/10 08:38 AM
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You did not mention how much money you were investing. This would make a huge difference on my approach. In a nutshell.. When the economy seems to be unstable, people begin to panic and cash in their U.S. Dollars for something more stable, suchas precious metals (gold, silver, platinum, etc). The economy has been unstable ... war Iraq, oil prices ($4 a gallon), Collapse of banks, home mortgage scandals, GM bankuptcy, Cash for clunkers scandal, and now Obama's healthcare. These things have made people uneasy and thus gold sales have skyrocketed. Now let's say the economy is getting better, from this point on. Well people will likely sale their gold and gold prices will likely drop. So you need to ask yourself, is this really the right time to buy gold or have you missed the bus.
Anyone reading this, please dont argue these points with me, I really dont care if you agree or not.
Now if you are just wanting to convert a couple thousand dollars into precious metals ... then estate sales might be your ticket. You can buy silver flatware, vases, salt shakers, bread dishes, jewelry and all kinds of stuff made of silver for prices far less than you can get silver at the gold trading company. You just have to know what you are buying.
Educate yourself and prosper.
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| guppy |
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MAME Fan
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: GatKong]
#210826 - 01/10/10 08:48 AM
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>
> If you go with coins, South African Kurrugands seem like the world standard coin,
> most widely used, and cheaper than the American Eagle gold coins... and gold, when
> melted down, is gold no matter who minted it.
ummm. No.
>
South African Krugerrands = The 1-ounce gold Krugerrands is .9167 fine gold, and weighs 1.0909 troy ounces
The American Buffalo Gold Bullion Coin = one ounce coin is .9999 fine gold and weighs 1.0001 troy ounces.
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: guppy]
#210837 - 01/10/10 01:19 PM
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> South African Krugerrands = The 1-ounce gold Krugerrands is .9167 fine gold, and
> weighs 1.0909 troy ounces
>
> The American Buffalo Gold Bullion Coin = one ounce coin is .9999 fine gold and weighs
> 1.0001 troy ounces.
Not the buffaloes being sold on TV, which are .9999 clad, and come to 0.9967 troy by their description (they say 31 grams)?
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: TriggerFin]
#210840 - 01/10/10 04:44 PM
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And those aren't being minted by the US Mint.
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: GatKong]
#210984 - 01/11/10 07:18 PM
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: GatKong]
#234364 - 09/23/10 09:51 AM
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So Gat, did you end up buying any PM's? Both gold & silver have been surging higher as predicted, with much higher prices ahead IMHO as the dollar gets flushed down the toilet.
http://321gold.com/
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| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Reged: 04/20/07
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: twisty]
#234401 - 09/23/10 05:20 PM
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No. I'm pretty good at predicting the best ways to loose my money. Right, as always. There are major firms on Wallstreet that watch what I do... and then they do the opposite...
We decided to try to pay off all our debt, housing included. So I'm investing in myself, I guess you could say.
Yeah... missed to precious metals boat... 
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: GatKong]
#234418 - 09/23/10 07:39 PM
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> We decided to try to pay off all our debt, housing included. So I'm investing in
> myself, I guess you could say.
Best thing I ever did... *NOW* I have extra money to invest or buy toys 
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> We decided to try to pay off all our debt, housing included. So I'm investing in
> myself, I guess you could say.
>
> Yeah... missed to precious metals boat...
You didn't miss it at all because prices are headed much higher.
Now that you have your bills paid off, you can start a dollar-cost-averaging plan in PM's by making scheduled purchases every x-months going forward (regardless of what the prices are). That's what a lot of people are doing now 
Don't be holding this when the music stops...
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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| Fever |
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Reformed Sk3n3 Quitter
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: twisty]
#234465 - 09/24/10 01:07 AM
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> > wow... just looking around is surprising! i didn't realize gold was that much more
> > expensive than silver.
> >
> > 2010 1oz gold maple leaf - $1200
> > 2010 1oz silver maple leaf - $20
>
> Fun fact: there is less above ground silver bullion than gold. The reason is because
> silver continually gets used up for industrial uses.
What about Platinum? That's worth more than gold isn't it? Why not hoard that?
And why IS it anyway - why do people value this ugly silver so much?
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italie |
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MAME owes italie many thank yous, hah
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Never been easier to buy....
[Re: twisty]
#234466 - 09/24/10 01:15 AM
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: Fever]
#234470 - 09/24/10 01:23 AM
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> What about Platinum? That's worth more than gold isn't it? Why not hoard that?
You can, and some do - but platinum is more of an industrial metal than either gold or silver. It's more of a niche thing in the PM market.
> And why IS it anyway - why do people value this ugly silver so much?
The same reason why all PM's are valuable - scarcity. It's the same principle with rare gems. The real question is why do people value paper money so much being that its supply is theoretically infinite? Zimbabwe now has $100 trillion notes that don't buy very much, hilarious.
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| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Reged: 04/20/07
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: twisty]
#234494 - 09/24/10 05:49 AM
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>Now that you have your bills paid off...
Now that When you have your bills paid off...
FTFY
But yeah... looking forward to that day. We'll celebrate by dressing up as our favorite US currency and having an orgy on the steps of the mortgage capital. I'll send you a post card. 
Baby steps... next month we send in the final payoff on my college student loans... 11 years early on the 30 year amortization schedule! Woot!
Our motto: Debt free by one three... 2013.
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| DMala |
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Sleep is overrated
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: krick]
#234506 - 09/24/10 06:47 AM
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Not that Glenn Beck isn't a huge scumbag, but is there *anything* advertised on AM radio that isn't a ripoff or a scam?
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: GatKong]
#395141 - 11/12/22 01:31 PM
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You should buy gold bullion. There are many reasons why you should buy gold bullion. Buying gold bullion is often the best option when you need to purchase gold for a few reasons. One reason is that you can use the money to save it. Another reason is that you can use the money as money in your account to pay bills, or get gift from your parents or relatives.
Edited by Tafoid (11/12/22 02:56 PM)
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: bpmre]
#395153 - 11/16/22 01:15 AM
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Re: Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
[Re: lharms]
#395159 - 11/17/22 04:03 PM
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> holy necrothread batman!
Don't worry, I made sure Gat knows about this vital new information!
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Anybody here know anything about buying gold?
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