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tb2000
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Reged: 08/20/07
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Adding new versions of games to drivers
#123321 - 08/31/07 12:43 AM


I've recently (at last after a long time) got myself an EPROM programmer (Dataman-48LV). I have a Sega Hang-On Rev. A board (well, more than one actually!) which from the source segahang.c (and from being informed by someone from the forums ages ago!) shows that it isn't dumped. I have dumped the 4 roms which have different labels (4 roms have the A prefix on them, the others seems to be the same) using the guide on the Guru's site. I've no doubt that a proper dev will end up adding this to the source, but I thought i'd give it a go first to see if I can get the hang of it. I'm not much good on C (probably hopeless in fact!), most of my programming was back in the days of the ZX Spectrum with Sinclair Basic, but i'd like to think I could get to grips with this small part of it.
I just have a few questions if I may

I've noticed that in my original hangon.zip, the filenames don't match what's in the source, yet the zip still works. I presume the driver reads the CRC/SHA1 code rather than the actual filename, or am I way off?
Also, is the CRC/SHA1 obtained when the files are zipped or is this calcualated in a different way?
Would it just be a matter of dropping in the appropriate rom names and CRC's into the driver or could there be more to it than this?
The two hex numbers after the rom name in the driver, I know what the second number is (I think it's the same as the number the programmer displayed when it had read and written the rom to a file - 32768k (8000 hex))? How is the first number determined, is it a memory region?
It's probably mostly simple stuff to most people here, and it probably sounds like this sort of thing is out of my league but i'm wanting to learn a bit anyway, even if it's only for the occasional adding of a clone or something that I might have. When I get time I am going to attempt to id all the boards I have that my programmer will accept to see if I do indeed have any other required romsets that need dumping. I have probably around 150-200 pcb's so I might have something that's needed.
Lastly, even though only 4 roms show different names on the labels, should I dump all of them to make sure or would it be wasting time?
Many thanks,
Tony



AWJ
Reged: 03/08/05
Posts: 936
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: tb2000]
#123331 - 08/31/07 02:39 AM


> I've noticed that in my original hangon.zip, the filenames don't match what's in the
> source, yet the zip still works. I presume the driver reads the CRC/SHA1 code rather
> than the actual filename, or am I way off?
> Also, is the CRC/SHA1 obtained when the files are zipped or is this calcualated in a
> different way?

Yes, MAME will identify ROMs by their hashes if the names don't match. CRC32 is part of the ZIP standard; any program that manipulates ZIP files should be able to tell you the CRC32 hash of a file. SHA1 hashes can be calculated using GNU sha1sum--Google "sha1sum.exe" and you should find a link to a Windows binary in the first page of results.

> Would it just be a matter of dropping in the appropriate rom names and CRC's into the
> driver or could there be more to it than this?
> The two hex numbers after the rom name in the driver, I know what the second number
> is (I think it's the same as the number the programmer displayed when it had read and
> written the rom to a file - 32768k (8000 hex))? How is the first number determined,
> is it a memory region?

To add a new clone set to MAME, you need to do just three things (assuming the clone is identical hardware-wise to its parent, which should be the case for your version of Hang On)

First, you need to add the ROM definitions. Because your board is a newer ROM revision, you're going to make it the parent and make the older set that's already in MAME a clone. Copy & paste the entire hangon ROM definition--everything from ROM_START( hangon ) to ROM_END. In the first (top) copy, change the appropriate ROM names and hashes to those from your board--e.g. replace epr-6918.ic22 with epr-6918a.ic22. You don't have to change the two hex numbers that come after the ROM name--those are the loading offset and the size of the ROM, and they'll be the same for your ROMs as for the originals. In the second (bottom) copy, just change ROM_START( hangon ) to ROM_START( hangon1 )--this is the old set that you're relegating from parent to clone, so you have to rename it.

Second, you need to add a game definition. At the very bottom of the driver file, copy and paste the line beginning with GAME( 1985, hangon,.... Again, the first copy is going to be your version--change the description (the part in quote marks) from "Hang-On" to something like "Hang-On (Rev A)" The second copy is the older version which you've renamed. Change the first hangon to hangon1, and the 0 after it to hangon. This makes "hangon1" into a clone of "hangon". Leave the rest of the "hangon"'s in the line alone.

Finally, you need to add the game definition to src/mame/mamedriv.c as well. Find the line that begins with DRIVER( hangon ), copy and paste it, and replace hangon with hangon1 in the second copy.

Once you've done these three things, rebuild MAME completely (make clean and then make) and if you've done everything right, your ROM set should be recognized!



tb2000
Arcade and retro fan
Reged: 08/20/07
Posts: 108
Loc: Somewhere in the UK
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: AWJ]
#123383 - 08/31/07 01:04 PM


> > I've noticed that in my original hangon.zip, the filenames don't match what's in
> the
> > source, yet the zip still works. I presume the driver reads the CRC/SHA1 code
> rather
> > than the actual filename, or am I way off?
> > Also, is the CRC/SHA1 obtained when the files are zipped or is this calcualated in
> a
> > different way?
>
> Yes, MAME will identify ROMs by their hashes if the names don't match. CRC32 is part
> of the ZIP standard; any program that manipulates ZIP files should be able to tell
> you the CRC32 hash of a file. SHA1 hashes can be calculated using GNU sha1sum--Google
> "sha1sum.exe" and you should find a link to a Windows binary in the first page of
> results.
>
> > Would it just be a matter of dropping in the appropriate rom names and CRC's into
> the
> > driver or could there be more to it than this?
> > The two hex numbers after the rom name in the driver, I know what the second number
> > is (I think it's the same as the number the programmer displayed when it had read
> and
> > written the rom to a file - 32768k (8000 hex))? How is the first number determined,
> > is it a memory region?
>
> To add a new clone set to MAME, you need to do just three things (assuming the clone
> is identical hardware-wise to its parent, which should be the case for your version
> of Hang On)
>
> First, you need to add the ROM definitions. Because your board is a newer ROM
> revision, you're going to make it the parent and make the older set that's already in
> MAME a clone. Copy & paste the entire hangon ROM definition--everything from
> ROM_START( hangon ) to ROM_END. In the first (top) copy, change the appropriate ROM
> names and hashes to those from your board--e.g. replace epr-6918.ic22 with
> epr-6918a.ic22. You don't have to change the two hex numbers that come after the ROM
> name--those are the loading offset and the size of the ROM, and they'll be the same
> for your ROMs as for the originals. In the second (bottom) copy, just change
> ROM_START( hangon ) to ROM_START( hangon1 )--this is the old set that you're
> relegating from parent to clone, so you have to rename it.
>
> Second, you need to add a game definition. At the very bottom of the driver file,
> copy and paste the line beginning with GAME( 1985, hangon,.... Again, the first copy
> is going to be your version--change the description (the part in quote marks) from
> "Hang-On" to something like "Hang-On (Rev A)" The second copy is the older version
> which you've renamed. Change the first hangon to hangon1, and the 0 after it to
> hangon. This makes "hangon1" into a clone of "hangon". Leave the rest of the
> "hangon"'s in the line alone.
>
> Finally, you need to add the game definition to src/mame/mamedriv.c as well. Find the
> line that begins with DRIVER( hangon ), copy and paste it, and replace hangon with
> hangon1 in the second copy.
>
> Once you've done these three things, rebuild MAME completely (make clean and then
> make) and if you've done everything right, your ROM set should be recognized!

Ok that's great! Thanks for the help!
I just have another few questions I forgot to ask:
Firstly, I noticed that my rom filenames breach the 8:3 filename standard, I assume that's fine as you've stated one above anyway, is it just the zipfile name that must conform?
If I do manage to get this working (which hopefully I should, it sounds fairly simple now), when it comes to submitting it, is it best I upload the roms to my webspace (the roms are only 32k each) and put a link in a text file with the submitted diff or do I upload the new roms with the diff to Mamedev?
Lastly, when looking at the zipfiles, do I need to change the zips so the four Rev A. files are in a zip with the rest of the files and the other (original) four files are in a zip of their own (for example, hangon1) or do I leave it for Mamedev to change?

Many thanks again,
Tony



AWJ
Reged: 03/08/05
Posts: 936
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: tb2000]
#123506 - 09/01/07 07:00 AM


> Ok that's great! Thanks for the help!
> I just have another few questions I forgot to ask:
> Firstly, I noticed that my rom filenames breach the 8:3 filename standard, I assume
> that's fine as you've stated one above anyway, is it just the zipfile name that must
> conform?

No, there is no length limit on ROM names, only on set names.

> If I do manage to get this working (which hopefully I should, it sounds fairly simple
> now), when it comes to submitting it, is it best I upload the roms to my webspace
> (the roms are only 32k each) and put a link in a text file with the submitted diff or
> do I upload the new roms with the diff to Mamedev?
> Lastly, when looking at the zipfiles, do I need to change the zips so the four Rev A.
> files are in a zip with the rest of the files and the other (original) four files are
> in a zip of their own (for example, hangon1) or do I leave it for Mamedev to change?

Do NOT email unsolicited binary files to MAMEDev (or to anyone, it's extremely bad netiquette) Upload the ROMs somewhere and tell MAMEDev where to get them. Also, if you want to submit a source patch yourself, please carefully read the instructions and guidelines at http://mamedev.org/submit.html

Management of zipped sets is up to individual users and archivers. MAMEDev only needs your new, unique ROMs, you don't need to repackage the already-dumped ones. For your own use, you can move the "old" program ROMs to hangon1.zip, or just put both versions into hangon.zip together (this is what a "fully merged set" is)



tb2000
Arcade and retro fan
Reged: 08/20/07
Posts: 108
Loc: Somewhere in the UK
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: AWJ]
#123522 - 09/01/07 10:25 AM


> > Ok that's great! Thanks for the help!
> > I just have another few questions I forgot to ask:
> > Firstly, I noticed that my rom filenames breach the 8:3 filename standard, I assume
> > that's fine as you've stated one above anyway, is it just the zipfile name that
> must
> > conform?
>
> No, there is no length limit on ROM names, only on set names.
>
> > If I do manage to get this working (which hopefully I should, it sounds fairly
> simple
> > now), when it comes to submitting it, is it best I upload the roms to my webspace
> > (the roms are only 32k each) and put a link in a text file with the submitted diff
> or
> > do I upload the new roms with the diff to Mamedev?
> > Lastly, when looking at the zipfiles, do I need to change the zips so the four Rev
> A.
> > files are in a zip with the rest of the files and the other (original) four files
> are
> > in a zip of their own (for example, hangon1) or do I leave it for Mamedev to
> change?
>
> Do NOT email unsolicited binary files to MAMEDev (or to anyone, it's extremely bad
> netiquette) Upload the ROMs somewhere and tell MAMEDev where to get them. Also, if
> you want to submit a source patch yourself, please carefully read the instructions
> and guidelines at http://mamedev.org/submit.html
>
> Management of zipped sets is up to individual users and archivers. MAMEDev only needs
> your new, unique ROMs, you don't need to repackage the already-dumped ones. For your
> own use, you can move the "old" program ROMs to hangon1.zip, or just put both
> versions into hangon.zip together (this is what a "fully merged set" is)

Thanks for your help once again AWJ! Thinking about it, I know you mean now about uploading submissions to MAMEdev (I expect it's the same as getting files in your e-mail from someone you've never heard of), not sure why I asked that really as now I mention it I remember users round here (well, on the old MAME.net forum) offering for chds and roms to be uploaded to their webspace or ftp (I could've sworn I remember someone saying about uploading the whole thing to mamedev but probably not). I wanted to make double sure where to put them anyway though as I found the instructions about submitting diff's but not what to do with new rom dumps (unless I missed it!).
Right, i'll have to get to work and see if I can get it working!
Thanks

Edited by tb2000 (09/01/07 10:33 AM)



Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: AWJ]
#123529 - 09/01/07 12:41 PM


> Management of zipped sets is up to individual users and archivers. MAMEDev only needs
> your new, unique ROMs

wrong.

obviously including old dumps with your new dumps is bad, but it makes our work adding a set to a driver far far easier if we get details of exactly what was dumped, not just what is new \ unique. The number of times I've wanted to scream at somebody for only listing what MAME didn't recognize, and leaving me not knowing which other roms were on that PCB is far too high.

'As is' (with correct names from the PCB) happens to be far better than tampered with.



Vas Crabb
BOFH
Reged: 12/13/05
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: Haze]
#123533 - 09/01/07 01:11 PM


> > Management of zipped sets is up to individual users and archivers. MAMEDev only
> needs
> > your new, unique ROMs
>
> wrong.
>
> obviously including old dumps with your new dumps is bad, but it makes our work
> adding a set to a driver far far easier if we get details of exactly what was dumped,
> not just what is new \ unique. The number of times I've wanted to scream at somebody
> for only listing what MAME didn't recognize, and leaving me not knowing which other
> roms were on that PCB is far too high.
>
> 'As is' (with correct names from the PCB) happens to be far better than tampered
> with.

Why does mamedev need copies of the ROMs at all? Isn't that just encouraging violation of copyright? Isn't it enough for someone to submit a source patch to support the new ROM set? Requesting that people submit copies of all ROMs they dump before new games can be accepted into MAME strikes me as more than a bit hypocritical.



tb2000
Arcade and retro fan
Reged: 08/20/07
Posts: 108
Loc: Somewhere in the UK
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: Haze]
#123534 - 09/01/07 01:15 PM


> > Management of zipped sets is up to individual users and archivers. MAMEDev only
> needs
> > your new, unique ROMs
>
> wrong.
>
> obviously including old dumps with your new dumps is bad, but it makes our work
> adding a set to a driver far far easier if we get details of exactly what was dumped,
> not just what is new \ unique. The number of times I've wanted to scream at somebody
> for only listing what MAME didn't recognize, and leaving me not knowing which other
> roms were on that PCB is far too high.
>
> 'As is' (with correct names from the PCB) happens to be far better than tampered
> with.

I see what you're saying Haze. So if I include in the text file what board (in this case the CPU board) with model no. (for example, 834-5667-01) and the location of the roms (although i've named the rom dumps with their name from the label and the board location) and that these are the main (i think) 68000 code roms then that would be what you're looking for?
Also, I think i'll dump and check the other roms, just to make sure they're not different. They have the same labels as the other roms in the original zip, so I would assume they are the same, but it's probably best I dump them and check to make sure. Only thing I will say is that they are coming from a faulty board (won't boot) although I have got 2 or 3 other faulty (they have different faults) Rev. A boardsets which I could dump the roms from and compare. If they all match then I would guess they are all fine.

Edited by tb2000 (09/01/07 01:19 PM)



Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
Posts: 5245
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#123535 - 09/01/07 01:16 PM


> > > Management of zipped sets is up to individual users and archivers. MAMEDev only
> > needs
> > > your new, unique ROMs
> >
> > wrong.
> >
> > obviously including old dumps with your new dumps is bad, but it makes our work
> > adding a set to a driver far far easier if we get details of exactly what was
> dumped,
> > not just what is new \ unique. The number of times I've wanted to scream at
> somebody
> > for only listing what MAME didn't recognize, and leaving me not knowing which other
> > roms were on that PCB is far too high.
> >
> > 'As is' (with correct names from the PCB) happens to be far better than tampered
> > with.
>
> Why does mamedev need copies of the ROMs at all? Isn't that just encouraging
> violation of copyright? Isn't it enough for someone to submit a source patch to
> support the new ROM set? Requesting that people submit copies of all ROMs they dump
> before new games can be accepted into MAME strikes me as more than a bit
> hypocritical.

verification. if we just allowed people to add sets, and send the code then we'd have no idea if the code was correct, if the sets were real, or bad, or if the details were completely made up. *Somebody* needs to be able to verify that the submission is correct, and suitable for support in MAME. You won't however find mamedev distributing roms.



tb2000
Arcade and retro fan
Reged: 08/20/07
Posts: 108
Loc: Somewhere in the UK
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#123536 - 09/01/07 01:18 PM


> > > Management of zipped sets is up to individual users and archivers. MAMEDev only
> > needs
> > > your new, unique ROMs
> >
> > wrong.
> >
> > obviously including old dumps with your new dumps is bad, but it makes our work
> > adding a set to a driver far far easier if we get details of exactly what was
> dumped,
> > not just what is new \ unique. The number of times I've wanted to scream at
> somebody
> > for only listing what MAME didn't recognize, and leaving me not knowing which other
> > roms were on that PCB is far too high.
> >
> > 'As is' (with correct names from the PCB) happens to be far better than tampered
> > with.
>
> Why does mamedev need copies of the ROMs at all? Isn't that just encouraging
> violation of copyright? Isn't it enough for someone to submit a source patch to
> support the new ROM set? Requesting that people submit copies of all ROMs they dump
> before new games can be accepted into MAME strikes me as more than a bit
> hypocritical.

I would think it's that Mamedev need to test all submissions before adding them to the official source code.



Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
Posts: 5245
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: tb2000]
#123537 - 09/01/07 01:20 PM


> > > Management of zipped sets is up to individual users and archivers. MAMEDev only
> > needs
> > > your new, unique ROMs
> >
> > wrong.
> >
> > obviously including old dumps with your new dumps is bad, but it makes our work
> > adding a set to a driver far far easier if we get details of exactly what was
> dumped,
> > not just what is new \ unique. The number of times I've wanted to scream at
> somebody
> > for only listing what MAME didn't recognize, and leaving me not knowing which other
> > roms were on that PCB is far too high.
> >
> > 'As is' (with correct names from the PCB) happens to be far better than tampered
> > with.
>
> I see what you're saying Haze. So if I include in the text file what board (in this
> case the CPU board) with model no. (for example, 834-5667-01) and the location of the
> roms (although i've named the rom dumps with their name from the label and the board
> location) and that these are the main (i think) 68000 code roms then that would be
> what you're looking for?
> Also, I think i'll dump and check the other roms, just to make sure they're not
> different. They have the same labels as the other roms in the original zip, so I
> would assume they are the same, but it's probably best I dump them and check to make
> sure. Only thing I will say is that they are coming from a faulty board (won't boot)
> although I have got three 2 other faulty (they have different faults) Rev. A
> boardsets which I could dump the roms from and compare. If they all match then I
> would guess they are all fine.

for a Sega board its fairly safe to assume that if the label is the same (EPR number) then the content is the same. However, that doesn't mean that some things in MAME don't have incorrect labels. IIRC 2 of the SMGP sets are identical, so I suspect one of them has incorrect labels.

in this case, a text file of exactly what was on the PCB, labels etc. would be useful, otherwise (maybe not in this case, but in others) we end up with messy situations such as not knowing which secondary CPU roms to use etc.



Vas Crabb
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Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 4462
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: Haze]
#123542 - 09/01/07 02:36 PM


> verification. if we just allowed people to add sets, and send the code then we'd have
> no idea if the code was correct, if the sets were real, or bad, or if the details
> were completely made up. *Somebody* needs to be able to verify that the submission is
> correct, and suitable for support in MAME. You won't however find mamedev
> distributing roms.

It's still encouraging copyright violation. If I send you a ROM dump I have no idea if you'll distribute it or not. Unfortunately assurances on internet forums aren't worth much. I'd also be breaking the law by sending it to you in the first place.

If I did add a set to MAME and just sent you a source patch without ROMs, what reason would you have to believe that the code was incorrect? You would have my word that the code is correct, just like I have your word that you won't distribute the ROMs (and my word on an internet forum isn't worth much, either). Besides, it's not like I haven't submitted other code to MAME before.

And if it isn't mamedev distributing ROMs, why do new sets always end up on (insert name of illegal French ROM site) within a couple of months of being added to MAME? I'm not accusing you personally of distributing the ROMs, Haze, but you have to admit it works like clockwork - a game is added to MAME, wait six weeks and you'll find it on (illegal French site). It makes you wonder...



Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
Posts: 5245
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#123549 - 09/01/07 03:18 PM


> > verification. if we just allowed people to add sets, and send the code then we'd
> have
> > no idea if the code was correct, if the sets were real, or bad, or if the details
> > were completely made up. *Somebody* needs to be able to verify that the submission
> is
> > correct, and suitable for support in MAME. You won't however find mamedev
> > distributing roms.
>
> It's still encouraging copyright violation. If I send you a ROM dump I have no idea
> if you'll distribute it or not. Unfortunately assurances on internet forums aren't
> worth much. I'd also be breaking the law by sending it to you in the first place.
>
> If I did add a set to MAME and just sent you a source patch without ROMs, what reason
> would you have to believe that the code was incorrect? You would have my word that
> the code is correct, just like I have your word that you won't distribute the ROMs
> (and my word on an internet forum isn't worth much, either). Besides, it's not like I
> haven't submitted other code to MAME before.
>

submissions that can not be verified are rejected, period. Anything else would be madness. In some cases we even expect pictures of the PCB, if not the physical PCB itself to prove that the person hasn't just made the roms up themselves.



Vas Crabb
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: Haze]
#123550 - 09/01/07 03:39 PM


> submissions that can not be verified are rejected, period. Anything else would be
> madness. In some cases we even expect pictures of the PCB, if not the physical PCB
> itself to prove that the person hasn't just made the roms up themselves.

I see where you're coming from, and I understand that there would be a could be a flood of garbage drivers submitted without the current system, but it's still hypocritical: mamedev does not condone, but at the same time mandates, violation of copyright.



tb2000
Arcade and retro fan
Reged: 08/20/07
Posts: 108
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: Haze]
#123552 - 09/01/07 03:58 PM


> > > verification. if we just allowed people to add sets, and send the code then we'd
> > have
> > > no idea if the code was correct, if the sets were real, or bad, or if the details
> > > were completely made up. *Somebody* needs to be able to verify that the
> submission
> > is
> > > correct, and suitable for support in MAME. You won't however find mamedev
> > > distributing roms.
> >
> > It's still encouraging copyright violation. If I send you a ROM dump I have no idea
> > if you'll distribute it or not. Unfortunately assurances on internet forums aren't
> > worth much. I'd also be breaking the law by sending it to you in the first place.
> >
> > If I did add a set to MAME and just sent you a source patch without ROMs, what
> reason
> > would you have to believe that the code was incorrect? You would have my word that
> > the code is correct, just like I have your word that you won't distribute the ROMs
> > (and my word on an internet forum isn't worth much, either). Besides, it's not like
> I
> > haven't submitted other code to MAME before.
> >
> submissions that can not be verified are rejected, period. Anything else would be
> madness. In some cases we even expect pictures of the PCB, if not the physical PCB
> itself to prove that the person hasn't just made the roms up themselves.

That's a good idea. I can send (well, upload to my webspace) a pic of the pcb (and/or a close up of the Sega sticker with Hang On Rev A. on it) as well if the need be.

Edited by tb2000 (09/01/07 03:59 PM)



R. Belmont
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#123572 - 09/01/07 07:16 PM


Emulation itself is hypocritical if you aren't doing a commercial pack under supervision of the rights holder. Get over it.



StilettoAdministrator
They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: Adding new versions of games to drivers new [Re: Vas Crabb]
#123967 - 09/05/07 06:37 AM


"Actually playing the games is considered a nice side effect."

- Stiletto


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