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*=/STARRIDER\=*
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The current status of Laserdisc games in MAME *DELETED*
#398164 - 03/18/24 12:56 AM


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gregf
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go with a disc status web page instead new [Re: *=/STARRIDER\=*]
#398172 - 03/19/24 06:47 AM





> This got me thinking if someone shouldn't put together a site with a list of the MAME wanted discs that shows how many are captured, how many more are needed and ways for the disc owners to contact the guys with the setups to do the captures.


Probably could be just a single page added on to an already existing site with nothing more needing to be added. The fact that the number of titles made using video type laserdisc hardware has to be far less than other released hardware is a bonus itself.

With Dragons Lair, Time Traveler, and maybe Thayer’s Quest? considered complete is a nice start and here’s to any future success is if coolmod and crew get proper data reads from laserdiscs from the upcoming project trip.



mhoes
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Re: The current status of Laserdisc games in MAME new [Re: *=/STARRIDER\=*]
#398177 - 03/19/24 07:20 PM


>
> it was the best capture available when it was included.
> But now that it is possible to get an almost perfect zero
> dropout capture of the discs, every LD CHD in MAME
> should and will (when possible) be replaced.
> This even includes Dragon's Lair and Thayer's Quest
> if I'm not mistaken!
>

I may be wildly mistaken, but as I understand it both Dragon's Lair [1] and Thayer's Quest [2] now have a zero visible dropout capture (partly due to making captures of multiple discs, and then combining the results).


[1]
https://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=123066#Post123066

[2]
https://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=122997#Post122997



ICEknight
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Re: The current status of Laserdisc games in MAME new [Re: mhoes]
#398178 - 03/19/24 08:07 PM


> I may be wildly mistaken, but as I understand it both Dragon's Lair [1] and Thayer's
> Quest [2] now have a zero visible dropout capture (partly due to making captures of
> multiple discs, and then combining the results).

That's what was thought, but sadly it seems that some errors might have gone undetected.



mhoes
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Re: The current status of Laserdisc games in MAME new [Re: ICEknight]
#398181 - 03/19/24 11:06 PM


> > I may be wildly mistaken, but as I understand it both Dragon's Lair [1] and
> Thayer's
> > Quest [2] now have a zero visible dropout capture (partly due to making captures of
> > multiple discs, and then combining the results).
>
> That's what was thought, but sadly it seems that some errors
> might have gone undetected.
>

Ah. If true, that would be sad news. Still, I think the current capture would still be superior to the experience that people would have gotten back in the day at the actual arcades (due to bitrot of the physical media).
Perhaps then, there still is time and resources enough to rectify that (both for current and future discs).



ICEknight
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Re: The current status of Laserdisc games in MAME new [Re: mhoes]
#398183 - 03/20/24 02:37 AM



> Perhaps then, there still is time and resources enough to rectify that (both for
> current and future discs).

Well, yeah, the more discs that can be captured with a DD, the more that can be stacked to get rid of the remaining imperfections.

I don't know if there's anyone currently in talks with other preservation communities which may have access to more of these, though.



agard
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Re: The current status of Laserdisc games in MAME new [Re: *=/STARRIDER\=*]
#398186 - 03/20/24 12:42 PM


On the subject of Dragon's Lair is only the versions that are not fully emulated yet the 1s where you can change to 1 coin 1 play as all the US 1s are 2 coins 1 play ?



JWallace
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Re: The current status of Laserdisc games in MAME new [Re: agard]
#398187 - 03/20/24 01:58 PM


1 coin for a credit is only the Enhanced 2.1 ROM, which is a pretty clear cut 'homebrew' version, so it's HBMAME fodder rather than mainline.

A disc status page is a good idea, but I think a lot of the main collectors are in contact with one another, so it would just be trying to identify the rarities that may not necessarily be in their hands*. Otherwise, it's probably more in control than it looks from outside.


*I'm thinking of the prototypes like Platoon from Nova Productions, the QuarterHorse games and the myriad 'adult' Casino Strip games that Status put out. In fact, there's one game I've been looking at which was a laserdisc quiz game, known as either Revelations or Vision Quest depending on the precise market. It was, to all intents and purposes, your standard pub quiz machine liek so many I've looked at on and off for years, except every question was read off an NTSC laser disc. I believe we have one good capture of the Vision Quest version, and one not so good of the Revelations version, but in theory the Revelations disc can be used in both. Dragon's Lair Project holds a lot of information, but even that isn't comprehensive.



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gregf
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Re: The current status of Laserdisc games in MAME new [Re: JWallace]
#398189 - 03/20/24 07:44 PM




> ….I think a lot of the main collectors are in contact with one another, so it would just be trying to identify the rarities that may not necessarily be in their hands*.
> Otherwise, it's probably more in control than it looks from outside.

I go along with that take as well…especially for the products marketed in N. American markets and also some of the more popular products sold in European and Asian markets.

At least Time Traveler and Dragons Lair are (not including PAL format) preserved while others including Thayers Quest might likely need to be redone as I had been told.



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Re: The current status of Laserdisc games in MAME *DELETED* new [Re: gregf]
#398193 - 03/21/24 03:22 AM


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*=/STARRIDER\=*
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Re: The current status of Laserdisc games in MAME *DELETED* new [Re: *=/STARRIDER\=*]
#398194 - 03/21/24 03:24 AM


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JWallace
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Re: The current status of Laserdisc games in MAME new [Re: *=/STARRIDER\=*]
#398195 - 03/21/24 12:16 PM


My understanding is that it's a median/mathematical treatment of the signal, dropouts have a fairly distinct signature in frequency space, and so the data is reconstructed from the other copies to eliminate that. There may be a difference between a pure dropout and an artefact though, and perhaps this is exposing that. Certainly it's a massive improvement, and in theory the treatment can be reperformed on the raw data without needing the discs again.

Having given the disc status thing more thought, would it be something to attach to UnMAMEd or similar? I still technically have some space here from the AGEMAME days, but no real desire to set up a complicated site, and I'm not the best connected to get this info together.



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MooglyGuy
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Re: The current status of Laserdisc games in MAME new [Re: *=/STARRIDER\=*]
#398205 - 03/24/24 04:57 PM


Threads like these pretty much destroy the motivation that I have to continue to look into it. None of you seem to have any appreciation for the concept of "too many cooks in the kitchen", and for such long-time fans of MAME, you seem to have utterly lost sight of the decades-long quote: "Just sit back and wait for cool things to happen."

At least as far as people dumping discs in the USA, I'm in contact with nearly all of them and am coordinating what needs to be coordinated. Outside of that circle, there's the occasional trustworthy person who has reached out for additional information before going on a dumping run, because they're responsible and can do their homework. But I can't emphasize enough just how completely not turn-key the LDF capturing process is.

You need to be able to calibrate a player - meaning you'll usually need to source a calibration disc.

That player needs to be of a type amenable to hooking up a Domesday Duplicator.

You need the ability to tap the appropriate takeoff points for the Domesday Duplicator.

You need to babysit the player as it's capturing: If you start getting "disc skip detected" messages, the capture is instantly unusable. The disc might either need to be polished so that it can run through without skips, or it might be too far gone already.

If you need to polish the disc, you'll need to follow the information available on the Domesday86 website, because most information out there stands a better chance of damaging the disc than doing anything useful. Simon, over on Domesday86, did actual trial runs of various methods, verifying results under a microscope, rather than just guessing as so many people do.

The process of going from one LDF (or a stack of them) to an AVI that MAME can use is relatively straightforward, but has some improvements that can be made - and will need to be made for discs with EFM tracks - so I've specifically gone out of my way to only hand instructions to people who I trust know what they're doing, because the process isn't 100% ready yet outside the hands of skilled and experienced people.

It wasn't like this a couple years ago, but it seems like the uptick in Laserdisc games being added to MAME has caused everyone to lose their minds, and I'm tired of it. I have more than enough to do when it comes to MAME without being borderline harassed for more info.

You act like having a comprehensive list of what discs are captured and what discs aren't is going to be a good thing, but it would be the opposite of that. If you're capable of dumping discs, then that means you're just as capable as I was, and am, of going and finding the info myself, and finding the relevant groups to be part of in order to contribute, and find out what to contribute. All a public list would do is motivate even more people to harangue me about what LD titles to do next.

Calm down, leave me alone, and resume waiting for cool things to happen, because you're not getting anything done any faster.



mhoes
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Re: The current status of Laserdisc games in MAME new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#398206 - 03/24/24 07:32 PM


>
> Calm down, leave me alone, and resume waiting for
> cool things to happen, because you're not getting
> anything done any faster.
>

Even though I'm not sure if this post is (also) aimed at the 2 posts I made in this thread, but regardless :

Thank you for that clear and extensive post on the subject matter. It is very informative about what actually goes into capturing laser discs. It is sincerely appreciated, at least by me (for whatever that's worth). And thank you (and everyone else involved) for putting the hard work into making all of this possible.

I'll crawl back under my rock now.



*=/STARRIDER\=*
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Re: The current status of Laserdisc games in MAME new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#398207 - 03/24/24 08:29 PM


I sincerely apologize, I wasn't trying to cause any issues and I completely appreciate everything you have done!



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