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Best PC Gamepad?
#395545 - 01/15/23 03:58 PM
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I know that PS and Xbox game pads are likely the answer, but I've been trying to track down a particular build of pad that (unfortunately), I don't believe exists.
Basically, I mostly want a high quality PS or Xbox pad base i.e.,
- Force feedback would be nice
- Dual analog sticks
- Clicky R3/L3 buttons under the analog sticks
- GOOD DPAD is a MUST for fighting games/platformers - which is likely more PS pad than Xbox (or maybe Switch? Although getting Switch to work with PC looks more finicky)
- Analog L2/R2 triggers - hopefuly on separate axes so pressing both don't cancel each other out (this is likely more a driver/API issue than a build issue)
- L1/R1 triggers (along with face buttons) can be buttons or pressure sensitive, doesn't matter
- Start/Select/mappable mode or analog button for a 3rd button in the middle
- Good compatibility with DInput, XInput, and SDL
Then there is the big requirement:
I know that's overall a lot of buttons, but I'm at a loss why this hasn't been designed (or, if it has, it's really not popular as I can't track it down).
To me, this would be the ultimate pad as it would accommodate Mega Drive/Saturn 6 button pads (along with Saturn analog pad; it would cover N64 C-buttons, it would cover the PC Engine 6 button pad, the 3DO six button pad as well as traditional Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft controls (plus the extra buttons could always be mapped to something potentially useful or just left unmapped.
Anyone know if such a beast is available for purchase?
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Re: Best PC Gamepad?
[Re: Pr3tty F1y]
#395550 - 01/15/23 08:48 PM
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What you’re asking for is impractical. Everyone learns sooner or later that six face buttons is too much to be trying to manipulate with a thumb. Sega learned that with the Saturn and switched to four buttons with the Dreamcast. Nintendo learned that with the N64 and switched to a right analog stick and four face buttons on the GameCube. Microsoft learned that with the Xbox and turned White/Black into LB/RB shoulder buttons.
What you’re asking for can’t work well with XInput because it’s an inherently limited API. The Xbox Elite controller has a bunch of extra buttons on the back for your middle/ring fingers, but you can’t use them as independent buttons via XInput, only as aliases for other buttons. XInput supports ten application buttons total (A, B, X, Y, LB, RB, LSB, RSB, Start, Back), four 16-bit axes (LSX, LSY, RSX, RSY), and two 8-bit axes (LT, RT). Depending on the controller subtype, some axes may function as switches (LT/RT as buttons for arcade stick/pad, RSX/RSY as POV hat for flight stick), but by gaining switches you lose axes.
(You can use the extra buttons on an Xbox Elite controller independently on Linux with SDL, but somehow I don’t think that’s what you’re looking for.)
You’re thinking like a ten-year-old wanting to jam in every possible feature. The trouble is, when you do this, you end up with something overly complicated, expensive, and impractical to actually use.
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Re: Best PC Gamepad?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#395551 - 01/15/23 09:50 PM
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> What you’re asking for is impractical. Everyone learns sooner or later that six face
> buttons is too much to be trying to manipulate with a thumb. Sega learned that with
> the Saturn and switched to four buttons with the Dreamcast. Nintendo learned that
> with the N64 and switched to a right analog stick and four face buttons on the
> GameCube. Microsoft learned that with the Xbox and turned White/Black into LB/RB
> shoulder buttons.
>
> What you’re asking for can’t work well with XInput because it’s an inherently limited
> API. The Xbox Elite controller has a bunch of extra buttons on the back for your
> middle/ring fingers, but you can’t use them as independent buttons via XInput, only
> as aliases for other buttons. XInput supports ten application buttons total (A, B, X,
> Y, LB, RB, LSB, RSB, Start, Back), four 16-bit axes (LSX, LSY, RSX, RSY), and two
> 8-bit axes (LT, RT). Depending on the controller subtype, some axes may function as
> switches (LT/RT as buttons for arcade stick/pad, RSX/RSY as POV hat for flight
> stick), but by gaining switches you lose axes.
>
> (You can use the extra buttons on an Xbox Elite controller independently on Linux
> with SDL, but somehow I don’t think that’s what you’re looking for.)
>
> You’re thinking like a ten-year-old wanting to jam in every possible feature. The
> trouble is, when you do this, you end up with something overly complicated,
> expensive, and impractical to actually use.
Yeah actually not only is it practical but Retrobit is releasing one soon. Stay in your lane and stop being a patronizing weirdo. He's not "thinking like a ten year old." You're typing like an ignorant clown who isn't even aware of different grip techniques because you don't actually play video games yourself.
https://twitter.com/samred/status/158134...1_&ref_url=
Edited by sanwastick (01/15/23 10:04 PM)
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Re: Best PC Gamepad?
[Re: Pr3tty F1y]
#395552 - 01/15/23 09:50 PM
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Re: Best PC Gamepad?
[Re: sanwastick]
#395558 - 01/16/23 06:16 AM
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If you need to rest the gamepad on your leg and use your fingers, that’s pretty damn impractical. You also lose access to the right shoulder buttons and/or trigger buttons and right thumb stick if present. You have to pick the controller up and grab it to use them. Completely changing hand position in the middle of a game isn’t going to be fun.
I already knew about the Retro-Bit Analog Saturn Pad. It doesn’t meed his requirements because the triggers are digital only (see this review – “The L2 & R2 triggers even have about 2mm to 3mm of travel before engaging in a satisfying click, however, it’s this travel that seems like a real missed opportunity, considering that these triggers are digital only (not analog)”). It also has smaller thumbsticks than most controllers, which won’t help with precision.
Also, I don’t trust Retro-Bit when it comes to firmware. Their existing Saturn Pad reports completely invalid capabilities when used in XInput mode, which MAME needs to work around.
A controller that tries to do everything is going to end up like a Swiss Army Knife. It’s handy to carry with you when you don’t know which tool you’ll need and you can’t carry a whole toolbox, but it’s nowhere near as good as a single-purpose tool for any of the tasks.
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Re: Best PC Gamepad?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#395559 - 01/16/23 11:18 AM
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You don't need to rest it on your leg. They weigh nothing and can be held in the air with your left hand alone comfortably. He said the main requirement was the six face buttons.
Even the analog Saturn pad had 6 face buttons, analog triggers. All it was missing was a second analog stick. That pad was actually pretty comfortable.
What's actually impractical is buying twelve gamepads for different games when one can do a good job at all of them.
Edited by sanwastick (01/16/23 11:20 AM)
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Re: Best PC Gamepad?
[Re: Pr3tty F1y]
#395561 - 01/16/23 12:33 PM
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I have many gamepads and, unfortunately, imho there is not a single perfect one.
I can advise two models:
1) xbox series x controller
pros:
good dpad
two analog sticks
cons:
only four face buttons
2) hori fighting commander octa
pros:
very good dpad
six face buttons
cons:
only one analog stick
Both, in my opinion, are very good for emulation and get very close to my arcade cabinets, with dpads much better than ds4 or ds5 ones.
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| Tomu Breidah |
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Re: Best PC Gamepad?
[Re: Pr3tty F1y]
#395565 - 01/17/23 08:37 AM
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Re: Best PC Gamepad?
[Re: Pr3tty F1y]
#395587 - 01/21/23 05:05 AM
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Re: Best PC Gamepad?
[Re: Pr3tty F1y]
#395589 - 01/21/23 10:10 AM
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I have a USB arcade stick (joystick, 6 main buttons for Street Fighter and the like and a couple other buttons for coin/start/etc) that I use for most arcade games and a transparent pink 3rd party xbox 360 controller that's perfect for emulating systems with analog controls like Nintendo 64.
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| Andrew |
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Girl Watcher
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Reged: 09/21/03
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> Does anyone remember when 3DFX made a gamepad?
Yes I have a few of the translucent blue version. Very nice. Heavy though. 
.
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A story of one man and his obsession with the female anatomy.
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Re: Best PC Gamepad?
[Re: Andrew]
#395616 - 01/26/23 03:55 AM
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Yes, that thing was stupid heavy for a gamepad. That was one of the reasons I replaced it with Playstation to USB adapter.
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Re: Best PC Gamepad?
[Re: uVSthem]
#395617 - 01/26/23 03:37 PM
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IIRC they were clear and you could watch the weights for the force feedback spin around in the bottoms of them...
Too Cool!
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Pessimist: Oh, this can't get any worse!
Optimist: Yes, it can!
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Re: Best PC Gamepad?
[Re: Pr3tty F1y]
#395653 - 02/09/23 09:10 AM
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King Kong Pro 2 is promising
[Re: Pr3tty F1y]
#395669 - 02/14/23 04:24 PM
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I've actually only used it a little bit, and my only complaint actually derives from a positive design move. You see... I've been trying to learn speedrun stuff for metroid dread, and the Switch Pro controller's ZL and ZR buttons aren't analog.
The King Kong 2 Pro controller has analog triggers, which have been messing up my timing. But it's just a mind game. In reality, they work great, and I should probably be trying a racing game with this thing.
Other Pros:
Connectivity: iOS/Android, X-input, Direct input, Nintendo Switch
Analog sticks: Hall effect, so less possibility of drift.
So far, just one con: I don't seem to be able to connect while wired to the switch dock. I need to unplug it, connect wirelessly, then plug it back in. For most people, I suppose that won't matter because you'd generally only feel the need to plug it in, if playing a really long session and the battery is going to die.
For fighting games (like... arcade style) if I'm really serious about it, I use an X-arcade 2 player. More to the point, it was a HotRod SE, and I bought an X-arcade kit to upgrade it (Hotrod SE required a keyboard to be attached to it the whole time, iirc)
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