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Nightvoice
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Beta Testing
#394230 - 06/10/22 09:26 PM


So my 10-year-old grandson has decided his chosen career will be beta testing games for a living. I told him this was unlikely, but I spoke out of turn as I'm no authority on this. I figured this community would be best at giving him a definitive answer. What say ye?



----------------------
I have officially retired from sucking at everything I do. Life is much easier now.

My MAME/MESS artwork files: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ABxeKgNIrKlIsyck7dx4V241NFQDWAF4
Related screen shots: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1U5IbvbVzYW97PuOOQuocvZFE_YJz7WIn



JimmyU
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Re: Beta Testing new [Re: Nightvoice]
#394232 - 06/11/22 04:41 AM


By beta testing, I’m assuming he means QA testing. That job is usually low pay and doesn’t have many benefits as big game companies contract those jobs out to temporary job companies. Try to steer him into game development instead. Get him a copy of Gamemaker Studio and see if that interests him.



MooglyGuy
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Re: Beta Testing new [Re: Nightvoice]
#394236 - 06/11/22 12:25 PM


> So my 10-year-old grandson has decided his chosen career will be beta testing games
> for a living. I told him this was unlikely, but I spoke out of turn as I'm no
> authority on this. I figured this community would be best at giving him a definitive
> answer. What say ye?

I concur with what JimmyU said.

There's no such thing as a "beta tester" job. When a game studio has an open beta, you don't get paid to play it. When a game studio has a closed beta, you either know people who get you into it or you don't, but you don't get paid for it either way.

QA testing is probably what he's thinking of, but that sort of job is extremely variable in terms of both compensation and satisfaction, but tends towards the low end of both.

QA tends to be stratified into about four tiers across the industry:
- Outsourcing groups that work on contract for major publishers like Sony, Microsoft, EA. It's a thankless job, more often than not you have no contact whatsoever with the development team itself. The job will most likely proudly declare that they don't work on bug quotas, but the reality is that you're still going to get dragged by your manager if you don't file as many bugs as Dave in the next cubicle over, who spends his time filing countless duplicate reports for what amounts to an identical issue, but affecting different in-game assets. Heaven help you if you try to focus on quality over quantity. The developers themselves most likely will come across as confrontational, if not outright condescending and hateful.
- Internal QA for the above major publishers. Exactly the same downsides. The only upside is that the job is potentially more stable, but you still stand a good chance of being the first to go if the studio needs to tighten the belt so the CEO can get his expected bonus this year.
- Internal QA for a publisher-owned studio. Somewhat more close contact with the development team, though developers can still act like jackwagons and be generally unappreciative of QA, despite it being the most important part of any development team. Just as liable to suffer layoffs if there aren't any titles that are currently in need of testing, possibly even moreso, because at least at the central publisher there's a more even cadence of titles to test.
- Internal QA for an independent studio. Probably the most satisfying of the lot, but still not a good leg up into the industry. There's little upward mobility. The stories you hear of people moving into production, programming, art or design roles is the textbook definition of "survivorship bias". They're still around to tell those stories - the 95% of testers who either burned out or got laid off aren't there to do so.

If your kid wants to actually get into game development, have him pick up a programming book, a pencil, or a set of level-design tools and start building skills and a portfolio.

Make him aware that overall, game development is not at all a stable industry to be part of, and when push comes to shove, he can make more money and work more reasonable hours with the same skill-set in a less "flashy" industry. You take what amounts to a pay cut to be able to put your name in the credits of a game.

It's a constant crapshoot to try to find the right studio. Publisher-owned studios have a level of stability compared to indie studios where if the current game doesn't go well, the whole studio might go under. Then again, publisher-owned studios are subject to the whims of the people over at the publisher, and so the whole studio might go under regardless, just because the CEO wants a bigger bonus.

Some game studios have a cringey tech-bro culture where if you're not hanging with "the dudes" and slamming back beers every Friday, you won't move up in the world. Some don't. Some studios will absolutely whip your ass to shit with unpaid overtime. Some won't. Some studios you get to make games that you yourself actually want to play. Sometimes you don't.

The reality is, game development is largely an under-paid, thankless job where your purported customers will just as readily spit in your eye as tell you that you did a good job. Countless folks get into the industry thinking they're going to be making Mario, or Fortnite - they never expect to be working on shovelware like Barbie's Magical Horse Adventure. But statistically, it's far more likely that they're going to be working on the latter than either of the former.

That said, I've been in this industry for 17 years now, and I can't see myself ever doing anything else. It took me until 2017 to find a studio that I could stand, and that could stand me, for more than about 2 years. But I've been at my current job for nearly 5 years now, and it really feels amazing. My coworkers are great, everyone including QA are treated with respect, the studio management are a great bunch of people who founded the studio back in 2008 for the purpose of just making fun games that they wanted to play. It can take a long-ass time to find that proverbial "forever home", but when you do, it feels amazing.



lharms
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Re: Beta Testing new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#394239 - 06/12/22 07:47 PM


To add to that from a corp perspective. Do not let them work you for free, ever. "foot in the door" is code for "we are going to get free work out of you and never call you back here is a free t-shirt we had in the back room in a box". The best you can hope for in that situation is meeting others who are doing the same as you and they remember you at the next job.

Game testing sounds cool but like you point out QA is a grueling thankless task. Most QA work is. Where you are trying every combination of different things just to get that one weird crash. In this case you will not be hanging out playing games. But going down a punch list and making sure everything works. You will do that same thing 200 times in a row. You will be playing a broken game as it is not done yet. Which everyone knows is a frustrating time.

As a dev I always try to make sure my QA peers are well taken care of. They are the ones who can make or break my software shipping on time. I try to always make time for them to make sure I understand what they are doing. I tell the other devs 'they are the ones using your broken code and they are frustrated and just want someone on the dev team to listen to them'.

In the corp world they are 100% trying to get rid of QA. It is being pushed back onto the developers with testing devop methodologies. I always point out to developers, a good QA person will try every combo and tell you how to reproduce it when it breaks. It is a different skill set.

Also do not let them shine you on with ideas of 'promotion from within' That usually does not happen. Most people jump to other companies to get promotions anymore. Which is kind of sad but the reality of it. It can still happen but it is more rare.

If you are looking to start in the QA area to move into dev work look at making test automation scripts. Groovy, Lua, Python, HPQ, soapui, etc. A reproducible test is easier to fix than 'uh I held the button down and it broke'. When you apply at your next job and it is for a dev they will want to know 'can you code'... Testing automation looks decent on someone trying to move up.



Nightvoice
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Re: Beta Testing new [Re: Nightvoice]
#394240 - 06/12/22 11:36 PM


Thanks for the great input, gentlemen. I had to dumb it down a bit for a kid to digest, but he needed to hear it from the horse's mouth because he "knows everything". The gist was, "no, you can't earn a living playing games all day so do your homework and find out what you're good at."



----------------------
I have officially retired from sucking at everything I do. Life is much easier now.

My MAME/MESS artwork files: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ABxeKgNIrKlIsyck7dx4V241NFQDWAF4
Related screen shots: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1U5IbvbVzYW97PuOOQuocvZFE_YJz7WIn



Vas Crabb
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Re: Beta Testing new [Re: lharms]
#394241 - 06/13/22 09:42 AM


QA is often undervalued. I pursued legal action against a former employer for sacking the QA team out from under me.



Haze
Reged: 09/23/03
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Re: Beta Testing new [Re: lharms]
#394242 - 06/13/22 05:02 PM


Also QA jobs are often about checking boxes and meeting quotas

Legitimate and important issues slip right through because a text box being misaligned is easier to spot.

Mindbendingly obscure & trivial issues get filed, while legitimate crashing issues or cases of logic going completely astray get missed.

This also ends up leading to dev time being spent fixing minor issues, sometimes introducing more serious ones (eg. cutting the framerate in half) then which go unreported, as they're not part of the testing criteria.

It ends up being a very mechanical process, something that doesn't tell you much useful beyond the automated tests anyway, as the QA teams often get treated like robots.

There have been a number of high profile examples lately of games with serious flaws being released, sometimes not even flaws that get corrected with an unfortunate day 0 patch.

Big studios/publishers getting a free pass *cough*Bethesda*cough*EA*cough* has always been an issue, but now the bar seems to be set ridiculously low even for smaller titles, rather than the bar being set higher for the big studios and 1st party games.

That's not to say QA is always bad, I've also worked with some great QA teams, even made friends with a few people on them who I thought were doing an exceptional job. However, a lot of those people now don't even work in QA, they were let go, because despite providing the best bug reports, they weren't meeting targets. Despite me finding their feedback valuable, some of the other studios they were working for didn't like the extra work they were having to do as a result of these bugs being uncovered so left poor feedback / didn't use that QA team again.

Good QA is massively undervalued, and misunderstood, but I can't see that changing as most studios just want to hear "everything is good, ship it!" while having to pay the minimum for QA.

These days, most QA gets done by the players foolish enough to play a game within the first 12 months of release; half the time for online games that means by the time the game doesn't have horrible issues, there's no active userbase left.



jopezu
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bruh... new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#394250 - 06/14/22 07:20 PM


bmha is not shovelware!

good write-up.



i learned everything i know from KC



jopezu
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Re: Beta Testing new [Re: Haze]
#394251 - 06/14/22 07:21 PM


>Mindbendingly obscure & trivial issues get filed, while legitimate crashing issues or cases of logic going completely astray get missed.


elden ring *STILL* doesn't close properly and the binary has to be terminated from taskmgr



i learned everything i know from KC


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