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Future emulation for MAME ?
#387267 - 07/27/20 08:34 PM
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Hello !
Will the two LCD games below be emulated in MAME in the near future ?
1. Q&Q Submarine
2. Bandai FL Draculajoh
Greetings !
Edited by Sebiohazard (07/27/20 08:35 PM)
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| gregf |
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Re: Future handheld emulation in MAME
[Re: Sebiohazard]
#387269 - 07/27/20 10:00 PM
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>Will the two LCD games below be emulated in MAME in the near future ?
1. Q&Q Submarine
The complicated answer because there is/are no simple answer(s) whatsoever regarding future emulation of items.
The first issue is it depends on who has one of these or is willing to buy or contribute towards a specific handheld item to be emulated. The LCD stuff that Moogly had arranged a few years earlier was a bulk buy that consisted of multiple monetary donations. Aside from that, the next issue is what I had posted earlier.
If Q&Q Submarine is protected with epoxy, then it will require Sean to do the work.
Assuming the cpu/mcu that runs the lcd game isn't protected with epoxy coating, what cpu/mcu runs the lcd game? It might be a cpu/mcu that is not yet emulated. Or maybe the lcd screen itself is not yet emulated.
Next issue in case the cpu is emulated and not coated in epoxy and in case lcd screen is already emulated. Does a contributor like hal3000 have the hardware that can read the cpu/mcu and does he need to get another hardware adapter to capture the data images that appear on the lcd screen?
As for now, I believe only Tronica games that are similar to G&W hardware might be able to be dumped and are not coated with epoxy coating. This could be the next stuff that hal3000 might be able to deal with in case any Tronica games can be sent his way.
As for Bandai game, hard to say what that hardware exactly consists of.
https://www.handheldmuseum.com/ Rik's site for those wanting to see handheld games info
--
If MCU is accessible/readable for the other three products, may it be nothing more complicated than a Sharp SM511 or Sharp SM512.
Aside from the Nintendo list, everything else was a hassle for Sean to put up with.
Konami
Sharp SM510 under epoxy
Sharp SM511 under epoxy
Tiger
Sharp SM510 under epoxy
Sharp SM511 under epoxy
VTech Electronic
Sharp SM511 under epoxy
Only exception with games currently emulated appears to be the Tronica brand games in case hal3000 wants to deal with those assuming they are SM510 and SM511 variety and are accessible like the Nintendo hardware.
Tronica
Sharp SM510
Edited by gregf (07/28/20 05:04 AM)
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Re: Future emulation for MAME ?
[Re: gregf]
#387271 - 07/27/20 11:55 PM
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I have a couple of Q&Q games in the same form factor. I believe I sent one of them to Henrik to see if it had a known pinout, and it didn't, so it will definitely have to go to Sean. Who the heck even knows what's in there.
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Re: Future emulation for MAME ?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#387272 - 07/28/20 12:30 AM
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Hello thank you for your answers & explanations !
I didn't think it was that complicated (Epoxy) now I understand 
I hope that one day it will still be possible...
Greetings !
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| gregf |
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Re: Future emulation for MAME
[Re: Sebiohazard]
#387274 - 07/28/20 05:17 AM
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>I didn't think it was that complicated (epoxy) now I understand
Yep. An area that a select few can deal with and Sean is one that can do that type of work.
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| gregf |
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Re: Future emulation for MAME ?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#387275 - 07/28/20 05:23 AM
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>I have a couple of Q&Q games in the same form factor. I believe I sent one of them to
>Henrik to see if it had a known pinout, and it didn't, so it will definitely have to go to
>Sean. Who the heck even knows what's in there.
With some of the Tronica games already emulated with mcu not having any coating, I am guessing hal3000 might be able to deal with other early 1980s Tronica lcd (G&W type) games. Everything else documented so far appears to be a challenge.
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Re: Future emulation for MAME ?
[Re: Sebiohazard]
#387288 - 07/28/20 09:15 PM
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> Hello !
>
> Will the two LCD games below be emulated in MAME in the near future ?
>
> 1. Q&Q Submarine
>
>
> 2. Bandai FL Draculajoh
>
>
> Greetings !
I had one of those Q&Q games for ages (Tarzan) but sold it on eBay in 2015, unfortunately it was well before was before LCD handhelds had started to become fashionable in MAME (or MESS as it still was back then).
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Re: Future handheld emulation in MAME
[Re: gregf]
#387291 - 07/28/20 10:30 PM
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> Assuming the cpu/mcu that runs the lcd game isn't protected with epoxy coating, what
> cpu/mcu runs the lcd game? It might be a cpu/mcu that is not yet emulated. Or maybe
> the lcd screen itself is not yet emulated.
>
> Next issue in case the cpu is emulated and not coated in epoxy and in case lcd
> screen is already emulated. Does a contributor like hal3000 have the hardware that
> can read the cpu/mcu and does he need to get another hardware adapter to capture the
> data images that appear on the lcd screen?
I think this gets the problem the wrong way around. The primary stumbling block for non-epoxied examples is the general lack of documentation for dumping internal ROMs from known 4-bit MCU types. For all too many MCU families, no actual code has ever been dumped, which means nothing really worth emulating them for. Often datasheets hint at test modes that can be entered by manipulating certain pins, but nobody seems very interested in researching how they work.
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| gregf |
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Re: Future handheld emulation in MAME
[Re: AJR Hacker]
#387292 - 07/28/20 11:03 PM
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>> Assuming the cpu/mcu that runs the lcd game isn't protected with epoxy coating, what
>> cpu/mcu runs the lcd game? It might be a cpu/mcu that is not yet emulated. Or maybe
>> the lcd screen itself is not yet emulated.
>
>> Next issue in case the cpu is emulated and not coated in epoxy and in case lcd
>> screen is already emulated. Does a contributor like hal3000 have the hardware that
>> can read the cpu/mcu and does he need to get another hardware adapter to capture the
>> data images that appear on the lcd screen?
>I think this gets the problem the wrong way around. The primary stumbling block for
>non-epoxied examples is the general lack of documentation for dumping internal ROMs from
>known 4-bit MCU types. For all too many MCU families, no actual code has ever been
>dumped, which means nothing really worth emulating them for. Often datasheets hint at
>test modes that can be entered by manipulating certain pins, but nobody seems very
>interested in researching how they work.
I forget about that scenario and you are correct. I had in mind only hap's current cpu/mcu emulation of some of the lcd games and forgot that there could be the condition of lack of cpu/mcu datasheets and other info that might never have been published or made available and the immediate examples that come to mind are the Rockwell components that run Mattel Electronics led handheld games and also the good old Votrax SC-01 speech device.
Sean was having to deal with patent office in getting papers for Rockwell components and the office staff couldn't find of what they had listed that was for sale. That is what I recall. I had an earlier post describing that sometime back in either 2016 or 2017 when I had posted about Mattel Electronics handheld games. For me, I am thankful hap was able to do MB Microvision handheld emulation this year so I'll take that as a nice win for the year.
Edited by gregf (02/27/21 07:23 AM)
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lcd related important historical dates in MAME
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#387293 - 07/28/20 11:32 PM
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>I had one of those Q&Q games for ages (Tarzan) but sold it on eBay in 2015, unfortunately
>it was well before was before LCD handhelds had started to become fashionable in MAME (or
>MESS as it still was back then).
Actually it was in extremely early initial process of eventually becoming fashionable in June 2015, but it is what it is. This is assuming that Q&Q Tarzan uses similar mcu component.
For all the Nintendo G & W fans history dates worth noting before making a Youtube video G & W tribute clip. ;-)
This is when the cpu was first added
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2015-06-29 mame0164
added SM510 cpu skeleton
https://github.com/mamedev/mame/commit/7b0b0bbc95573a2ea38ccbbe0138aae7b85d7232
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When some of the lcd games first started working
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2017-05-06 mame0186
Machines promoted to working
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Top Gun (handheld) [hap, Sean Riddle]
Contra (handheld) [hap, Sean Riddle]
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (handheld) [hap, Sean Riddle]
Gradius (handheld) [hap, Sean Riddle]
Lone Ranger (handheld) [hap, Sean Riddle]
Game & Watch: Mickey & Donald [hap, Sean Riddle, Olivier Galibert]
Game & Watch: Donkey Kong II [hap, Sean Riddle, Reinier]
Game & Watch: Boxing [hap, Sean Riddle]
https://github.com/mamedev/mame/commit/0a2898afe66b1bf26b826ec4bc230541e6a28c30
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Re: lcd related important historical dates in MAME
[Re: gregf]
#387298 - 07/29/20 03:48 PM Attachment: Q&Q.jpg 600 KB (0 downloads)
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> > I had one of those Q&Q games for ages (Tarzan) but sold it on eBay in 2015,
> unfortunately
> > it was well before was before LCD handhelds had started to become fashionable in
> MAME (or
> > MESS as it still was back then).
>
> Actually it was in extremely early initial process of eventually becoming
> fashionable in June 2015, but it is what it is. This is assuming that Q&Q Tarzan uses
> similar mcu component.
>
>
> For all the Nintendo G & W fans history dates worth noting before making a Youtube
> video G & W tribute clip. ;-)
>
>
> This is when the cpu was first added
>
> --
> 2015-06-29 mame0164
>
> added SM510 cpu skeleton
>
> https://github.com/mamedev/mame/commit/7b0b0bbc95573a2ea38ccbbe0138aae7b85d7232
> -
Unfortunately it was sold in March that year. Coincidentally I still have the original photo on my old memory card, so here it is in its unaltered form, poor lighting and all.
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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