>Hmm did covid come out of a lab where they study coronavirus or did it come from a market >less than 300 yards from the lab. Obviously it leaked out of the goddamn lab
Several of those in the various IC group departments are still uncertain, but one thing they are doing is not jumping to immediate half-assed conclusions unlike the useless criminal oval office occupier.
A few hours later, The Washington Post published a report — citing intelligence officials and disease experts — that contradicted this claim. The Post's sources said there's no evidence connecting the outbreak to the lab, and that the lab accident theory is possible but not likely.
President Donald Trump on Thursday said he had seen evidence that shows the coronavirus originated in a Chinese lab, but US intelligence sources and disease experts seem to be contradicting this claim.
A US researcher who worked with a Wuhan lab gives 4 reasons why a coronavirus leak would be unlikely
But CIA officers didn't find any evidence.
There's a reason for that, according to Jonna Mazet, an epidemiologist at the University of California, Davis, who has worked with and trained WIV researchers in the past.
"I know that we worked together to develop very stringent safety protocol, and it's highly unlikely this was a lab accident," she told Business Insider. Here are four reasons why.
Reason 1: The lab's samples don't match the new coronavirus
I see two claims and perhaps 2 reasons, perhaps 3 claims and 1 reason.
The first claim is their database doesn't have a record. To which the reply isto ask if records can be deleted. And if they did have evidence that a state lab was responsible for this, would have they have motivation to delete that record? Or might they be following orders to deny any state culpability?
Yes, it's sort of ad hominem, but it's not a fallacy: It's a question as to whether somebody is motivated enough to lie, not saying that because of who they are they must lie. Now, if you screw up in the US, it could get bad. If you screw up in the CCP-controlled PRC, I can't imagine what would happen--would the party close ranks to protect you or simply make you not be?
The second is more of the same. They couldn't make a mistake or not follow because they have procedures that keep them from making mistakes and that tell them to follow the procedures. It doesn't help that the witness denies witnessing. I even like the idea that they made mistakes in the past, therefore they're clearly not capable of making any more. People can fix mistakes, but making a mistake 2-3 years ago is clearly not evidence of not making a mistake last year.
Again, you can have the most stringent safety protocol on Earth, but if there's a mistake and it's not followed, you get shit. (Need an example? Here's one. The US CDC-developed PCR COVID test that was developed in January had three steps. The last step was validation, comparing it against a sample known to lack COVID RNA. The protocols in place--stringent, of course--ensured that that last null sample was completely uncontaminated. However, because the protocols were violated, that sample was contaminated and therefore the test was crap. They finally said the first two steps were sufficient and just dropped the third step, at least for a while. Notice: Stringent protocol =/= protocol followed.)
It's still more likely that the virus hopped from animal to host in the market.
But the four reason is also implicitly a claim--one that's is true, but only as an if-then statement. Yes, if you wear protective equipment you're much less likely to get infected than if you don't. That leaves open the question of mistakes, because some of the mistakes documented in the past were precisely *not* wearing the appropriate equipment. Which means we can recast this possibly being the equivalent of "If you're supposed to wear equipment and don't, you're less likely to be infected than if you're not supposed to wear protection and don't." Which is clearly the logical equivalent of a toilet bowl seconds after somebody had a bad case of diarrhea. ==
My guess goes along with his sentence: ' It's still more likely that the virus hopped from animal to host in the market.'
65% possibility it occured naturally (unfortunately in the markets).
35% possibility that someone botched up in the lab safety protocols and mistakenly messed up and things went downhill from there.
*predicts thread gets moved to the jousting battle forum*
Right so at the equator just in 1 direction we're looking at the earth at roughly 43,824,000 yards and it's too close to say 300/43,824,000 at any random direction is likely the culprit or not. Next to a facility that studies coronavirus. Rigggghhhhht.
>Right so at the equator just in 1 direction we're looking at the earth at roughly >43,824,000 yards and it's too close to say 300/43,824,000 at any random direction is >likely the culprit or not. Next to a facility that studies coronavirus.
This particular blame issue whether someone botched lab safety protocol or food vendors screwing up with animals too close together can be held off and be dealt with at a later time. Finding the medicine that can minimize the virus effects is far more important. Remedesvir is one start. As for vaccine to prevent virus in the first place is another two years away imo.
As for my list of culprit blames:
1. Chinese authoritarian regime with Xi as the leader trying to hide virus outbreak for several weeks until no longer manageable. The government had silenced a physician that had determined a new virus outbreak was taking place when that doctor had reported it in mid to late November. The physician eventually became a casualty himself.
2. US jackass and his mafia crooks intentionally setting things in motion by removing pandemic response team, firing a Beijing based US CDC staff member that was stationed there to help Chinese staff if something went wrong, jackass clearing out WAY, WAY too much medical supplies from national stockpile (btw: GOP controlled 2010 to 2018 House refused to spend funds to build up/resupply emergency stockpile....this was deliberate)...etc, etc.
3. the director or World Health Organization can be faulted to a minimum compared to the problems from other countries. The director did indicate a possible pandemic, but held off on that view for a week or two before saying "possible pandemic". Eventually declared a pandemic between mid March to early April. I don't have the date when WHO declared pandemic. The director (WHO) could have pushed the Chinese government in early December for answers, but the government might not have been cooperative either way.
4. Countries with leaders that choose to let things happen and downplay the virus outbreak. Most of us have a decent idea of which countries make up that list.
5. Any government leaders (state governors, county officials) that choose to not follow the guidelines recommended by health officials. Expect 'red states' casualty numbers to go upward as lockdown restrictions removed: "All Systems Go...Full Speed Ahead". A fair number of the protestors over past several days will have an eventual visit to some emergency room in a few weeks courtesy of red state governors. In CA, there have been some methods as to loosen lockdown by having businesses change operation methods in which store employees, customer service, restaurants etc interact with customers in ways to minimize potential transmission of virus.
6. Any citizens that choose to not follow practices wearing face masks, social distancing, For US folks, a few incidents took place in Oklahoma (an open carry state) with so called "responsible?" gun owners pulling out their handguns and threatening to shoot store employees or customers that were telling those to wear some mask before entering a store (grocery, etc).
Stillwater, OK repeals mask requirement after customers threaten store employees with guns
Officials in Stillwater, Okla., on Friday walked back a requirement that people wear face masks inside reopened stores and restaurants, citing threats of violence and physical abuse directed at employees.
Mayor Will Joyce, an independent, amended his emergency declaration on the same day it took effect “in response to concerns voiced by business proprietors and citizens,” according to a news release. The anger directed toward store employees started in the first three hours businesses were open and included a threat of gun violence.
State and local governments have included a requirement that people wear masks in at least some circumstances as part of their reopening plans.
In Stillwater, many people objecting to the mask requirement cited their belief that the rule is unconstitutional,
>That's a straw man argument. I'm not talking about prioritization of tasks USA should be >doing. I'm not talking about that in any way.
Okay. Skip this part ">As for my list of culprit blames:"
Xi and Chinese government can still be called out on the fault issue later, but at this time finding any treatments is more important imo.
- This particular blame issue whether someone botched lab safety protocol or food vendors screwing up with animals too close together can be held off and be dealt with at a later time. Finding the medicine that can minimize the virus effects is far more important. Remedesvir is one start. As for vaccine to prevent virus in the first place is another two years away imo. -
I forgot about this SNL routine.
SNL skit with Kate McKinnon as Hillary and the cue cards after dump was elected
> That's a straw man argument. I'm not talking about prioritization of tasks USA should > be doing. I'm not talking about that in any way.
I'm with a smitdogg on this one.
One other issue I find most surprising is its timing. Notice how at the height of the protests in China and entering the center of attention on the world stage that low and behold a virus breaks out to force people into their homes and off the streets. Again a lucky coincidence for Chinese officials.
As far as the u.s. goes, blame who ever you want. When all this started the democrats and CNN where too busy with impeachment and headlines to give a damn about some virus. Don't think so? Go back to the center of January and pull up headlines, what are they about? Democrats and impeachment...
At the end of the SNL skit where it reads if Trump become president he will kill us all. I believe she means that the dems are no longer going to get away with crap. Um Like Flynn. Trump 2020.
>One other issue I find most surprising is its timing. Notice how at the height of the >protests in China and entering the center of attention on the world stage that low and >behold a virus breaks out to force people into their homes and off the streets. Again a >lucky coincidence for Chinese officials.
The timing of when the Hong Kong region protests [which I agreed with HK protesters regarding their issue against the HK regional government] might still be coincidental timing.
The lab being built had some assistance from US agencies for construction details, but the two factors that I still lean with are: "sloppy mismanagement of lab operations OR natural transmission hop of virus from one animal to another where things went downhill from there."
Either way it's on China regardless. If it were a deliberate release against HK protestors, government officials would go with mindset that it could easily backfire on them. There had been speculation on that, but with China having past SARs experience and other virus outbreaks, I can't see it being a deliberate stunt since they had a hard time trying to contain past outbreaks over last 15 years.
>As far as the u.s. goes, blame who ever you want.
If US still had pandemic response team and a Beijing based CDC staff member still there, the outbreak might have been minimized, but that is a big "If". It could have still gone bad, but Taiwan and S. Korea had learned from past outbreaks and went the extra effort to prevent latest outbreak from causing chaos in their regions.
>At the end of the SNL skit where it reads if Trump become president he will kill us all.
Although it was in jest at the time, it has potential to becoming reality especially if ramping up blame on China and then using nuclear weapons as if it were an easy thing to do.
Kennedy and Kruschev in early 1960s was one thing and they both were smart enough to know better even though Kruschev's performance with shoe pounding on table set him back a bit on 'likeable personality' scale. :-)
What is in the oval office won't see that and what is needed was someone that could handle him like former chief of staff Gen. Kelley was able to do on occasion. There is no one in there left other than "YES MEN" that will not tell him "No" or "Think it over first."
Two ideal candidates for oval office. Jay Inslee or Al Franken. WA Gov. Jay Inslee was my first choice during primaries.
Re: Hmm did covid come out of a lab where they study coronavirus or did it come from a market less than 300 yards from the lab
[Re: Smitdogg]
#386090 - 05/04/20 09:57 PM
Re: Hmm did covid come out of a lab where they study coronavirus or did it come from a market less than 300 yards from the lab
[Re: gregf]
#386095 - 05/05/20 05:16 AM
> Good news is potential promising findings... > > https://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sh...part=1&vc=1 > > > ....that thankfully don't involve hydroxychloroquin, but will be led by an antibody > known as 47D11 that can disable virus strains.
What's wrong with hydroxychloroquin as far as a drug is concerned? Let's see... It's one if the oldest prescribed drugs around, its one of the drugs with the least amount of side effects, about anyone in military service that had been over seas had taken it at one time or another. Has no ill side effects against any certain type nationality body chemistry. Still taken today in large numbers thru out the world. One of the most proven drugs around.
Oh wait I forgot the fear mongering CNN and the democrats blitzed the news with "unknown" ill side effects it "may" have, how too little was known about the drug, how it may kill "some" people.... So basically the same warnings as any drug carries then huh?
Damn I'm glad I'm an independent and can think for myself and ignore the false crap CNN puts out.
Re: Hmm did covid come out of a lab where they study coronavirus or did it come from a market less than 300 yards from the lab
[Re: Renegade]
#386096 - 05/05/20 05:46 AM
> It's one if the oldest prescribed drugs around, its one of the drugs with the least amount >of side effects, about anyone in military service that had been over seas had taken it at >one time or another. Has no ill side effects against any certain type nationality body >chemistry. Still taken today in large numbers thru out the world. One of the most proven >drugs around.
For malaria and other similar tropical fever related diseases correct, but someone that took that and probably didn't consult with a physician not so much.
>Oh wait I forgot the fear mongering CNN and the democrats blitzed the news with "unknown" >ill side effects it "may" have, how too little was known about the drug, how it may kill >"some" people.... So basically the same warnings as any drug carries then huh? >Damn I'm glad I'm an independent and can think for myself
Physicians were also jumping and advising people to not listen to a peddler/pusher instead of their own doctors/physicians, assuming folks had any. One victim already paid the price several weeks earlier. That is why physicians were doing tweet replies in one of the jackass' previous daily press briefings and advised citizens of 'ignore what was being peddled' and do contact their own physicians instead in case any have enough money to afford their own doctor.
Folks don't need to get their advice from CNN, but they can do much better than getting info from a con-artist in the oval office. Or at least hear what Dr. A. Fauci had to say or Dr. Birx, but those two aren't allowed to freely speak compared to when they used to work for previous administrations that wouldn't interfere with their work.
Re: Hmm did covid come out of a lab where they study coronavirus or did it come from a market less than 300 yards from the lab
[Re: roscian]
#386098 - 05/05/20 05:51 AM
I wanted WA Gov. Jay Inslee, but so much for that.
If the NFL season starts...if it should if things work out, I will be looking forward to seeing how good Steelers 2nd round pick is as their drafted TE.
> > It's one if the oldest prescribed drugs around, its one of the drugs with the least > amount > > of side effects, about anyone in military service that had been over seas had taken > it at > > one time or another. Has no ill side effects against any certain type nationality > body > > chemistry. Still taken today in large numbers thru out the world. One of the most > proven > > drugs around. > > For malaria and other similar tropical fever related diseases correct, but someone > that took that and probably didn't consult with a physician not so much. > > > > Oh wait I forgot the fear mongering CNN and the democrats blitzed the news with > "unknown" > > ill side effects it "may" have, how too little was known about the drug, how it may > kill > >"some" people.... So basically the same warnings as any drug carries then huh? > > Damn I'm glad I'm an independent and can think for myself > > > Physicians were also jumping and advising people to not listen to a peddler/pusher > instead of their own doctors/physicians, assuming folks had any. One victim already > paid the price several weeks earlier. That is why physicians were doing tweet replies > in one of the jackass' previous daily press briefings and advised citizens of 'ignore > what was being peddled' and do contact their own physicians instead in case any have > enough money to afford their own doctor. > > Folks don't need to get their advice from CNN, but they can do much better than > getting info from a con-artist in the oval office. Or at least hear what Dr. A. Fauci > had to say or Dr. Birx, but those two aren't allowed to freely speak compared to when > they used to work for previous administrations that wouldn't interfere with their > work.
This drug has been taken hundreds of thousands of u.s. military, if it had been as dangerous as CNN tried to make it sound I'm sure the military would have found a better drug, on top of that if this drugs "death rate" had been that great how many news stories would there have been over the years revealing this travesty that the military was forcing on people?
1 person died from it? 1 ? How many other drug related deaths has there been in say just the last 30 days in this country?
The only reason this drug was crucified was because trump mentioned it, if he had said aspirin we would be hearing about how many people are allergic to it.
And please tell me when trump told people to go out on their own and take this drug without first talking to a doctor. Ive seen several times him bringing it up but not once did I ever see him tell people to take it without dr supervision.
Don't give a damn bout trump and wish he would shut up but I'm also sick of media pushing half truths full of their "interpretations" of what he meant or said.
Just like the disinfectant line, so over blown and misrepresented. He said "LIKE" a disinfectant that we can take into our bodies. Nothing about telling people to swallow,drink or eat any cleaner what so ever in that entire speech...
Even on Fox News recently they had a doc say it increased the death rate in covid patients and fox no longer pushes it. It was trump desperate to grasp something that might work. The whole admin is morons. His new press sec just a few weeks ago was on fox saying "aren't you glad we have a president now that won't allow the virus to reach the us" etc anti Obama blah blah.
It would be really cool if I could browse these forums without being reminded daily of how many emulator users are pathetic Republicans who would let Trump brick in their mouths as long as he yelled "no homo" and they could both go out for a good old-fashioned lynching afterwards.
Even Andrew's creepy-ass posts aren't as bad as half the posts in this thread.
> It would be really cool if I could browse these forums without being reminded daily > of how many emulator users are pathetic Republicans who would let Trump brick in > their mouths as long as he yelled "no homo" and they could both go out for a good > old-fashioned lynching afterwards. > > Even Andrew's creepy-ass posts aren't as bad as half the posts in this thread.
Yes my god should anybody else but a Democrat have a right to voice their opinion. The good ole double standards of the Democratic party!
Re: Hmm did covid come out of a lab where they study coronavirus or did it come from a market less than 300 yards from the lab
[Re: Smitdogg]
#386328 - 05/19/20 09:47 AM
I don't know (and doubt) this has been said already by anyone else, but...
Re: Hydroxychloroquine. I read something that said that the virus affects how oxygen is absorbed by the blood. If you take pneumonia for example, it typically affects one lung and not both simultaneously as this virus appears to do. Whatever way the Hydroxy works on Malaria is similar to how it helps with COVID-19.
There was also a video I watched that explained how certain protein sequences in the Corona Virus DNA structure couldn't have come about naturally, which strongly suggests it was created in a lab.
Re: Hmm did covid come out of a lab where they study coronavirus or did it come from a market less than 300 yards from the lab
[Re: Tomu Breidah]
#386331 - 05/19/20 10:25 AM
> > Obviously it leaked out of the goddamn lab > > You're likely being sarcastic. But I don't know.
Lots of things are "possible" now. I think most likely it was something taken out of the natural environment to be studied and lost control of in the china lab 300 yards from the "wet market" blamed for the leak, but yes there has to be some level of theory where a worker maybe "leaked it on purpose" or that a worker developed it for "population control". It comes out of China and they've had population control for 50+ years it's auto-generated (population control theory).
The original post wasn't inherently political, but subthreads of it have certainly gone off the rails.
What really gets me in the feels is seeing long-standing friends (yeah, online personas but legitimately classifies as friends in my book) going at each other over it.
Covid has changed our reality in a lot of ways, and may require us to be physically isolated. But we shouldn't let it tear us apart in our minds too. Kumbaya and all that.
And if you don't like the thread getting all political... don't add to it. Start a new thread in the war-room with a hyperlink to the thread you're talking about, and let it continue there. As to why, as moderator, I'm not moving/locking/whatever... moderator is pay grades below administrators, and so it's not my place in this case.
But dudes and dudettes, no low blows. We're a better community than that.
Wuhan had previously published having created a homologous virus to the one causing this pandemic back in 2015 ["Nature Medicine" volume 21, pages1508–1513(2015)], and "Nature" back then published an editorial admonishing the Wuhan lab for creating such a virus capable of causing a pandemic like the one we are now suffering "If the virus escaped, nobody could predict the trajectory." [Naturedoi:10.1038/nature.2015.18787] Especially given the statement in the recent correspondence published in "Nature" admits that to date "no animal coronavirus has been identified that is sufficiently similar to have served as the direct progenitor of SARS-CoV-2" yet that article then expects the reader to accept that it must be from nature because from where else could it have come.
> Wuhan had previously published having created a homologous virus to the one causing > this pandemic back in 2015 ["Nature Medicine" volume 21, pages1508–1513(2015)], and > "Nature" back then published an editorial admonishing the Wuhan lab for creating such > a virus capable of causing a pandemic like the one we are now suffering "If the virus > escaped, nobody could predict the trajectory." [Naturedoi:10.1038/nature.2015.18787] > Especially given the statement in the recent correspondence published in "Nature" > admits that to date "no animal coronavirus has been identified that is sufficiently > similar to have served as the direct progenitor of SARS-CoV-2" yet that article then > expects the reader to accept that it must be from nature because from where else > could it have come. > > All very troubling.
I'll say this much: if China developed this to wipe out the U.S., it was a stroke of genius because people are not taking it seriously all over the country. The American attitude of "nobody's going to tell me what to do even if it kills me" SHALL kill us.
> I'll say this much: if China developed this to wipe out the U.S., it was a stroke of genius
I don't think they released it on purpose. I think they were just sloppy and irresponsible. The top scientists for that virus lab were arrested in January by the U.S. for conspiracy, fraud, and smuggling illegal viral material, which left the lab short of people who knew what they were doing.
But once accidentally released in Wuhan, China isolated Wuhan to contain it from spreading within China... except they still allowed international travel out of Wuhan, which is inexplicable.
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But I don't know.
