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Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
#385329 - 02/24/20 11:49 PM
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Hi....running an i7 8700k @ 5.1 ghz on win 7x64 with a GTX 1050ti with a GSync monitor.
I'm having performance issues with all the Rush Games. Goes from 90% then to 109% then will stay at 100 for a bit then drop to 80 then spike over 100 again, wash rinse repeat.
I find it hard to believe if my CPU is the issue. Is this driver problematic?
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Tafoid |
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: Dante82]
#385331 - 02/25/20 01:07 AM
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> Hi....running an i7 8700k @ 5.1 ghz on win 7x64 with a GTX 1050ti with a GSync
> monitor.
>
> I'm having performance issues with all the Rush Games. Goes from 90% then to 109%
> then will stay at 100 for a bit then drop to 80 then spike over 100 again, wash rinse
> repeat.
>
> I find it hard to believe if my CPU is the issue. Is this driver problematic?
Powerful arcade system with specialized graphics requires as much RAW horsepower as you can throw at it. It is even running a Dynamic Recompile Core (DRC) - without that you would never stand a chance.
c:\mamegit\mame>mame64_0224 sf2049 -bench 30
Average speed: 130.70% (29 seconds)
c:\mamegit\mame>mame64_0224 sf2049 -bench 30 -nodrc
Average speed: 34.11% (29 seconds)
Not much you can do to improve it but to make sure your don't have any video enhancement happening (aka HLSL) or additional bezel artwork which might slow things down.
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: Tafoid]
#385334 - 02/25/20 05:47 AM
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This also applies to vegas.cpp (especially Road Burners which barely reaches 100% on my i8600k). It looks to me all MIPS and voodoo related code is as optimized as possible.
I suggested a standalone 3dfx arcade emulator back on r/emulation but that topic never took off for some oddball reason.
Also this: https://pcem-emulator.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=2974
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-.-
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: Hydreigon]
#385339 - 02/25/20 10:02 AM
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> I suggested a standalone 3dfx arcade emulator back on r/emulation but that topic
> never took off for some oddball reason.
Why would you expect it yo take off in any way? If you want a standalone 3dfx arcade emulator, you need to either write it yourself, or pay in the order of $120,000/year for a skilled C++ developer to do it.
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| CiroConsentino |
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Frontend freak!
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#385341 - 02/25/20 01:01 PM
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It seems that MAME will never do 3D hardware accelerated rendering for graphics, not even for 3D games (all be rendered by the CPU). There is at least one open source "glide to d9d wrapper" out there. Couldn't MAME use that ? I'm sure "Gradius 4" would run better.
I wonder how MAME will handle machines that render graphics in D8D / D9D / OpenGL
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Ciro Alfredo Consentino
home: http://emuloader.mameworld.info
e-mail: [email protected]
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#385343 - 02/25/20 02:23 PM
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What I find odd is if I leave it unthrottled is runs 280-300% and never drops below 100%. It seems like my rig has trouble just keeping the regular pace. Also according to task manager my CPU when it drops spikes only to about 43%.
Is there any way to just have the sound not skip when this happens? I could live with micro stutters but the sound blips that happen when it drops drive me crazy.
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: Dante82]
#385344 - 02/25/20 03:52 PM
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Have you tried enabling frame skipping?
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#385345 - 02/25/20 04:40 PM
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I have not, it's been so long since I've had to use that. I will enable it for these games.
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#385350 - 02/26/20 02:36 PM
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> It seems that MAME will never do 3D hardware accelerated rendering for graphics, not
> even for 3D games (all be rendered by the CPU).
It seems you have no idea what you're talking about, I'll just leave it at that.
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: Dante82]
#385351 - 02/26/20 02:50 PM
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So Frameskipping made it a lot worse. What helped me the most is switching to PortAudio from directsound. I get no more jumpiness and audio skipping behavior even when speed shows dropping when hitting f11.
I guess somehow PortAudio is less taxing when running this driver? I dunno.
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| CiroConsentino |
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Frontend freak!
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#385364 - 02/27/20 01:14 PM
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Really ? Doesn't MAME use D9D / OpenGL just for the BGFX effects and not actual 3D rendering of 3D games. See Capcom ZN-1 games, they are rendered by CPU, not GPU... am I wrong ?
I asked about this before (years ago) and almost got banned from the MAME emulation scene. I'll just leave it at that...
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Ciro Alfredo Consentino
home: http://emuloader.mameworld.info
e-mail: [email protected]
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#385366 - 02/27/20 01:23 PM
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Currently, MAME does not use your GPU to render 3D games. That much is true.
But you have a fundamental misunderstanding as to why MAME has historically avoided GPU acceleration. From MAME's inception until roughly 2010-2013 or so, the way emulators used the host GPU to accelerate emulation was by trying to map the emulated GPU's functions as closely as possible onto the host GPU's functions.
This had a whole bunch of limitations. If you had ever played Goldeneye in an N64 emulator at the time, you'd have seen that the sky was divided diagonally, with one half having the sky texture and the other half missing it. This is because emulator authors wrongly assumed that the N64's GPU only drew triangles, when in reality some careful selection of the triangle parameters could cause it to draw a square, or a trapezoid. Goldeneye abused this functionality to draw the sky texture with one draw call, rather than two separate triangles.
In general, anything involving trying to map the guest GPU functionality onto the host GPU was a complete no-go due to accuracy concerns.
However, we now live in a day and age where Compute Shaders are a thing, which opens the door to being able to run what amounts to a software renderer massively parallel on the GPU. This solution has all of the accuracy of running a software renderer on the CPU, with all of the speed provided by using a GPU.
Progress is slow on this front due to MAME's underlying graphics architecture not having kept up with the times, and so being able to do this will essentially require a re-write of the graphics system on the order of what happened with 0.106. It's something that I've asked Olivier to look into, and he has been, but given the number of things he has on his to-do list, it's not going to be quick. But it will eventually happen.
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| CiroConsentino |
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Frontend freak!
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#385368 - 02/27/20 01:37 PM
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| Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#385372 - 02/28/20 01:08 AM
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> Thank you for the insightful details.
Often, people -also- use "hardware accelerated graphics" as a stand-in phrase for what they really want: "better than the original hardware" features.
- Render the 3D graphics at some resolution well beyond what the original arcade hardware was capable of!
- Render the 3D graphics to be widescreen, filling all of a normal LCD screen or television or whatever is the common video output these days, altering the aspect ratio beyond what the arcade game was designed for!
- Replace the textures of the 3D polygons in the emulated arcade game to have significant upgrades in texture quality, or whatever designs of one's choosing!
- Add whatever filtering you want to make the "jaggies" go away! OMGWTFBBQ anisotropic filtering!
... generally speaking, while we do plan on seeing Moogly's description of 3D accelerated graphics in MAME come to pass, we don't plan on offering such "better-than-life" features.
- Stiletto
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: Dante82]
#385379 - 02/28/20 07:05 PM
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> Hi....running an i7 8700k @ 5.1 ghz on win 7x64 with a GTX 1050ti with a GSync
> monitor.
>
> I'm having performance issues with all the Rush Games. Goes from 90% then to 109%
> then will stay at 100 for a bit then drop to 80 then spike over 100 again, wash rinse
> repeat.
>
> I find it hard to believe if my CPU is the issue. Is this driver problematic?
My 9900K (5Ghz) can run the seattle games at 100% (at least I've not seen it dip anywhere below 60fps whilst playing).
..the later Rush games, using the Vegas hardware, will however drop down to 50-55fps at times, but for the most part stay at 60fps.
As an experiment, try disabling Hyperthreading on the 8700K, that can boost single core IPC on the Intel CPU's, just to see if its any better.
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Re: Is Seattle.ccp not optimized?
[Re: Ziggy100]
#385423 - 03/02/20 04:55 PM
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> > Hi....running an i7 8700k @ 5.1 ghz on win 7x64 with a GTX 1050ti with a GSync
> > monitor.
> >
> > I'm having performance issues with all the Rush Games. Goes from 90% then to 109%
> > then will stay at 100 for a bit then drop to 80 then spike over 100 again, wash
> rinse
> > repeat.
> >
> > I find it hard to believe if my CPU is the issue. Is this driver problematic?
>
>
> My 9900K (5Ghz) can run the seattle games at 100% (at least I've not seen it dip
> anywhere below 60fps whilst playing).
>
> ..the later Rush games, using the Vegas hardware, will however drop down to 50-55fps
> at times, but for the most part stay at 60fps.
>
> As an experiment, try disabling Hyperthreading on the 8700K, that can boost single
> core IPC on the Intel CPU's, just to see if its any better.
Hi - I actually wanted to bump this as it’s fully solved.
I used to use Groovy Mame before its low latency option was introduced into baseline and as a Gsync user there was no more need for me to use GM so I moved to baseline. So I tried disabling the low latency option after reading it could cause issues on some games but the problem still persisted.
I downloaded the newest version of GM and all the Rush games run fine now. I even removed my OC profile which I made specifically because of this issue and I’m getting 100% still.
According to Calamity Baseline MAME uses a high precision timer and GM uses a normal one.
The high precision timer is what’s causing my issue. So I guess it’s back to GM. I had a feeling this had to do with a some sort of timing issue because like I stated previously when this issue was happening my processor was not taxed according to task manager and even with my OC removed unthrottled speed does it dip below 100 through attract mode and playing.
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