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Are this missing graphics normal?
#382796 - 06/19/19 02:43 AM
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samsho5
samsh5sp
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Tafoid |
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: 7n004]
#382797 - 06/19/19 03:11 AM
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> samsho5
>
>
> samsho5sp
Yup. Long story short, neogeo video had borders on the screen which many games didn't utilize. Older MAME used to fake it by forcibly stretching the image off screen to get rid of them, but them people complained about misaligned text and graphics. As presented, it is accurate.
Your best 'fix' is to select from TAB -> Video Options.
Choosing "Screen 0 Cropped (304x224)" will simply drop all the extra stuff on the borders.
Choosing "Screen 0 Stretched (304x224)" will stretch the image to what you'd see before cropping, but without the borders.
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: Tafoid]
#382798 - 06/19/19 03:44 AM
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Ok!
Thank you for the quick tip!
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: Tafoid]
#382799 - 06/19/19 04:37 AM
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> Your best 'fix' is to select from TAB -> Video Options.
> Choosing "Screen 0 Cropped (304x224)" will simply drop all the extra stuff on the
> borders.
> Choosing "Screen 0 Stretched (304x224)" will stretch the image to what you'd see
> before cropping, but without the borders.
Further to that, software made with the first-party tools was usually drawn with the 304x224 resolution in mind, so for most of the SNK games or something like Money Idol Exchanger, "Screen 0 Stretched (304x224)" will give correct aspect ratio. However, some software like Puzzle Bobble has art drawn for 320x224 resolution and may use the whole active area.
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#382800 - 06/19/19 05:31 AM
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Thanks.
How about the missing graphic at the second picture? (bottom right)
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: 7n004]
#382801 - 06/19/19 01:27 PM
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> Thanks.
> How about the missing graphic at the second picture? (bottom right)
I wouldn't worry about it. Some arcade games are like that. Just extra space that they didn't cut out when they were working on those.
Point is they cheated by resetting those on the screen rather than cutting those out. They didn't want to waste more time working on those. 
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: Dullaron]
#382802 - 06/19/19 02:57 PM
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> I wouldn't worry about it. Some arcade games are like that. Just extra space that
> they didn't cut out when they were working on those.
>
> Point is they cheated by resetting those on the screen rather than cutting those out.
> They didn't want to waste more time working on those.
Thank you man!
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: 7n004]
#382815 - 06/20/19 10:18 PM
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| Tafoid |
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: MetalGod]
#382818 - 06/20/19 11:53 PM
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> It's an emulation bug.
>
> Following video is the intro in MAME. Pay attention to the square bug at the bottom
> right during the characters scenes. The left border space doesn't seem correct too.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nE5xeBym3s
>
>
> Next video is taken from a neo-geo cartdridge. No bugs here
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0sk8ybHiag
>
>
> You should open a report at mametesters.org
I'm not convinced that there is not cropping being done somewhere. Both videos are rendered differently and may or may not use MAME - there really is no way to tell. You have to assume MAME for both but there was a time where MAME didn't show all the extra fluff on the sides, like has been explained before. I don't see where the second video claims it is from an actual neogeo cart? There is a long history here of neogeo and borders and you cannot ignore it because of one video which may be using MAME. You can test the video option provided to see if gameplay better matches the video.
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: Tafoid]
#382819 - 06/20/19 11:56 PM
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Pay attention to the square bug at the bottom right corner during the characters scenes. The bug is not present on the non-mame video. This is an unavoidable bug in mame.
Regarding the border bug, changing the video options (cropped or stretched) didn't solve it. Anyway, it seems this issue can be solved somehow, cause there are mame videos on youtube with that issue not present.
I've tested old mame versions (untill 0.120) and both bugs are always there.
Edited by MetalGod (06/21/19 12:16 AM)
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| Tafoid |
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: MetalGod]
#382822 - 06/21/19 01:21 AM
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> Pay attention to the square bug at the bottom right corner during the characters
> scenes. The bug is not present on the non-mame video. This is an unavoidable bug in
> mame.
>
> Regarding the border bug, changing the video options (cropped or stretched) didn't
> solve it. Anyway, it seems this issue can be solved somehow, cause there are mame
> videos on youtube with that issue not present.
>
> I've tested old mame versions (untill 0.120) and both bugs are always there.
Ok. I did some hard testing.
The "big neogeo rewrite" was done on in version 0.116u1 (0.117). I can confirm that 0.116 and prior does not change the bottom lines on right side when a full screen profile is shown. It does start happening on 0.116u1 until now. Please note that a regression in presentation doesn't 100% mean there is an emulation error. Taht other video was likely made from a pre 0.116u1 MAME bianry. Until we can show with video documented and proven to be from an authentic PCB, we are stuck with not knowing what precisely happens with a real PCB/cart in its presentation and don't know it is a bug. Remember that comparison to previous MAMEs do not automatically mean instant regression and current code is wrong (most notably in neogeo observations).
This is one machine driver that has very strict reporting guidelines because so many times Devs would get errors and look for solutions which ended up being not what the actual machine does when finally compared to original hardware.
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: MetalGod]
#382825 - 06/21/19 03:46 AM
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> It's an emulation bug.
>
> Following video is the intro in MAME. Pay attention to the square bug at the bottom
> right during the characters scenes. The left border space doesn't seem correct too.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nE5xeBym3s
>
>
> Next video is taken from a neo-geo cartdridge. No bugs here
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyiAgsx-Kg
>
>
> You should open a report at mametesters.org
Interesting.
But I've noticed something else in the second video, near the end when you see those full screen characters, before they appear you can clearly see a slow RED/WHITE/BLACK screen sequence before the character change.
If you look at this japanese AES version you'll notice the same slow RED/WHITE/BLACK screen sequence but in a different order.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhvqFxmTqtk
In mame the screen flashes too fast and it looks pink(ish).
> You should open a report at mametesters.org
I don't know how to do it, I'm just a regular player, I can't describe what I'm seeing in a way the developers will understand, can you do it for me, please?
Thank you.
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: 7n004]
#382829 - 06/21/19 10:09 AM
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I'm investigating this......
It is very confusing cause many official ports of the game have been released so I cannot know which video comes from. The game is the most popular samarai showdown game ever and it has been ported so several domestic consoles, old and new ones. For example, switch version shows the same bugs as current MAME:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiqioYaroH8
Current MAME could be showing a bug present in the original hardware.
Untill now I know ps4/vita shows no bugs, old mame prior to 0.116u1 shows no bugs too...
But I still haven't found a good video showing the original MVS cartdridge clearly being run.
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: MetalGod]
#382830 - 06/21/19 10:23 AM
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I found it !
This one has been a pain in the ass to find:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0QomxRVyLk
That's the AES neo geo version of the game. Same game as the arcade version, but with a menu when you press start and sold with a nice box and manual for the domestic neo-geo console. As you can see, the bottom right corner square bug is also present here, so we are gonna consider this a bug present in the original hardware. What we usually call a BTANB (bugs tha are not bugs).
Edited by MetalGod (06/21/19 10:48 AM)
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: MetalGod]
#382840 - 06/21/19 03:00 PM
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Re: Are this missing graphics normal?
[Re: MetalGod]
#382841 - 06/21/19 04:01 PM
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> I found it !
> This one has been a pain in the ass to find:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0QomxRVyLk
>
>
> That's the AES neo geo version of the game. Same game as the arcade version, but with
> a menu when you press start and sold with a nice box and manual for the domestic
> neo-geo console. As you can see, the bottom right corner square bug is also present
> here, so we are gonna consider this a bug present in the original hardware. What we
> usually call a BTANB (bugs tha are not bugs).
doesn't surprise me
It's been said that a lot of these later NG games were developed / tested using crappy emulators (NeoRageX etc.) instead of real hardware. Since those emulators don't emulate some of the weird video side-effects, or sprite limits, the games ended up with bugs.
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