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How to enable link mode in seattle and midvunit driving games ?
#379199 - 10/31/18 12:05 PM
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How to enable link mode in seattle and midvunit driving games ?
How to enable link mode in games like california speed, san francisco rush or cruisn' world?
Link is disabled by default
Edited by MetalGod (10/31/18 01:23 PM)
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You don't. *nt*
[Re: MetalGod]
#379204 - 10/31/18 01:56 PM
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: How to enable link mode
[Re: MetalGod]
#379213 - 10/31/18 07:26 PM
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>How to enable link mode in seattle and midvunit driving games? How to enable link mode in
>games like california speed, san francisco rush or cruisn' world? Link is disabled by default.
Moogly is correct. Someone with skills like SailorSat has for writing code to have emulated hardware being able to link together is what is needed.
https://git.redump.net/mame/log/?qt=author&q=sailorsat
For the Atari and Midway games being able to have cab link mode be supported might require creating new machine devices in case the pcbs have any specific chips not yet emulated. See some of SailorSat's prior work for examples.
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Re: How to enable link mode
[Re: gregf]
#379214 - 10/31/18 07:38 PM
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That means link is still not emulated in MAME for those games. I guess this could be indicated with a message after loading them, as it is when running any namco driving games:
"Completely unemulated features: LAN"
Edited by MetalGod (10/31/18 07:52 PM)
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There's no need to insult, Ryan.
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#379215 - 10/31/18 07:43 PM
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: How to enable link mode
[Re: MetalGod]
#379217 - 10/31/18 08:05 PM
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>That means link is still not emulated in MAME for those games. I guess this could be
>indicated with a message after loading them, as it is when running any namco driving games:
>"Completely unemulated features: LAN"
I see what you meant.
-
src/mame/drivers/namcos2.cpp
MACHINE_IMPERFECT_GRAPHICS | MACHINE_IMPERFECT_SOUND | MACHINE_NODEVICE_LAN
-
Assuming that the flag warning MACHINE_NODEVICE_LAN is used to provide a user warning that games that were designed to be linked together don't have that feature yet, means that someone has to look over the Atari and Midway source files to see which particular games did have cab link feature and maybe add the MACHINE_NODEVICE_LAN flag feature.
Probably one of those overlooked cases and maybe will be added later until cab linking feature is supported in the future.
The only one I remember being linked was San Francisco Rush. I never played the other games in arcades.
src/mame/drivers/midvunit.cpp
"Midway", "Cruis'n World (rev L2.5)", MACHINE_SUPPORTS_SAVE,
src/mame/drivers/seattle.cpp
"Atari Games", "San Francisco Rush (boot rom L 1.0)", MACHINE_SUPPORTS_SAVE,
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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MACHINE_NODEVICE_LAN overlooked?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#379219 - 10/31/18 08:11 PM
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I am guessing the MACHINE_NODEVICE_LAN is used to remind users that cab linking feature is not yet supported and might be needed for a few of the games in such source files until cab linking feature is supported.
-
src/mame/drivers/midvunit.cpp
"Midway", "Cruis'n World (rev L2.5)", MACHINE_SUPPORTS_SAVE,
src/mame/drivers/seattle.cpp
"Atari Games", "San Francisco Rush (boot rom L 1.0)", MACHINE_SUPPORTS_SAVE,
-
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Re: How to enable link mode
[Re: gregf]
#379221 - 10/31/18 08:30 PM
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Cruisin' World also had that feature, as well as california speed and others . There are plenty of videos on youtube of the original twin cabinet of these games.
I think this is something known among development.
Anyway, I could make a list of this if neccesary with videos of the original cabinets working linked.
Edited by MetalGod (10/31/18 08:31 PM)
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MACHINE_NODEVICE_LAN and k056230 used in zr107 and gticlub
[Re: gregf]
#379223 - 10/31/18 09:23 PM
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In a pull request, I also suggested that flag to be added on zr107 and gticlub games that have linking capabilities. Both zr107 and gticlub use a k056230 serial I/F controller which isn't fully understood (I bet it functions much similar to Namco's C139). nwk-tr and hornet use a separate network pcb both of which aren't fully understood too.
Hornet's network pcb was only used in Silent Scope 2 which has other general/video issues so that needs to be saved for much later.
Going off topic with networking, Operation Thunder Hurricane has a weird situation with current emulation of k056230. Removing a hack boots the game with a "GUN I/F ERROR" which, under normal circumstances, indicates a bad or missing I/O board, named GN680 as that board is hooked in hornet.cpp. I attempted to hook that GN680 in gticlub.cpp only to get that same error even with the hack (I have it currently removed on my local pc). I'm thinking the k056230 is trying to communicate with the GN680 but there is no established connection between the two. Either the k056230 needs to be worked on, that GN680 needs to be hooked differently in gticlub.cpp, or both. It's a lot of guesswork from here.
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-.-
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Definitely overlooked
[Re: gregf]
#379226 - 10/31/18 10:30 PM
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There are more atari/midway games to list. Other companies like Taito deserve a mention too. I already mentioned Konami in a different post.
Idk if preliminary drivers are capable of that flag or not. Namco System 23 could use that flag but that driver lacks some other major components.
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-.-
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Literally nothing about my post was insulting
[Re: MetalGod]
#379230 - 10/31/18 11:29 PM
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There is no link support for those games. So the answer is simple: You don't enable link support. Chill the hell out.
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Re: Literally nothing about my post was insulting
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#379242 - 11/01/18 06:40 AM
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I know what "nt" means in the autism world.
I don't want your answers. Just stay away from me.
Edited by MetalGod (11/01/18 06:41 AM)
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Re: Literally nothing about my post was insulting
[Re: MetalGod]
#379243 - 11/01/18 06:43 AM
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Re: Literally nothing about my post was insulting
[Re: abelenki]
#379244 - 11/01/18 07:09 AM
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> > I know what "nt" means in the autism world.
>
> *nt* means "no text".
Yeah, what the fuck, does he actually think that half the posters on here are just going around saying "neurotypical"? It means that that there's no text in the body of the post, dude, damn.
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Re: Literally nothing about my post was insulting
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#379248 - 11/01/18 01:09 PM
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Had no idea what it meant either. Nipple Twist? Noodle Taco?
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> MAME isn't about playing the games anyway.
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Re: Literally nothing about my post was insulting
[Re: LensLarque]
#379253 - 11/01/18 03:55 PM
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> Had no idea what it meant either. Nipple Twist? Noodle Taco?
The -nt- (no text) and -mt- (more text) dates all the way back from the Retrogames forums. And now I see SpiDoL has been annoying since back then.
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| Foxhack |
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Furry guy
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Re: Literally nothing about my post was insulting
[Re: BIOS-D]
#379256 - 11/01/18 08:05 PM
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> > Had no idea what it meant either. Nipple Twist? Noodle Taco?
>
> The -nt- (no text) and -mt- (more text) dates all the way back from the Retrogames
> forums. And now I see SpiDoL has been annoying since back then.
I remember someone in this forum yelled at me because I replied with *nt* and wrote something silly in the message body. (it was something like 'Why are you reading this go away!'
That said I'm not surprised people nowadays don't understand how to use that. I see less and less people use it in forums, but it was in heavy use for more than a decade...
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Re: Literally nothing about my post was insulting
[Re: Foxhack]
#379258 - 11/01/18 08:59 PM
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What I think is funny, is that, not only did MetalGod not understand what *nt* meant, but he presumed it meant some derogatory insult to him. That shows ignorance on multiple levels. Personally I think he should apologize to Mooglyguy for the misunderstanding & maybe learn to do some research in the future before assuming someone's insulting him for no reason
Edited by Envisaged0ne (11/01/18 09:03 PM)
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Windows 11 64 bit OS
Intel Core i7-10700
Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 6GB
32GB DDR4 RAM
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Re: Literally nothing about my post was insulting
[Re: Envisaged0ne]
#379261 - 11/02/18 03:48 AM
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I've been insulted by him for no reason in the past, me and other users. Reading him insulting in this forum is quite a common thing. Maybe that's why I misunderstood him.
Anyway, he also said "You don't", and that also sounded like shit to me.
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Re: Literally nothing about my post was insulting
[Re: MetalGod]
#379263 - 11/02/18 10:57 AM
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> I've been insulted by him for no reason in the past, me and other users. Reading him
> insulting in this forum is quite a common thing. Maybe that's why I misunderstood
> him.
> Anyway, he also said "You don't", and that also sounded like shit to me.
Aw, you're a real charmer. The only person who's being insulting in this thread is you. Sorry you can't admit that you're wrong.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: How to enable link mode in seattle and midvunit driving games ?
[Re: MetalGod]
#379270 - 11/02/18 03:33 PM
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> How to enable link mode in seattle and midvunit driving games ?
>
> How to enable link mode in games like california speed, san francisco rush or cruisn'
> world?
> Link is disabled by default
Seattle games use real-deal Ethernet. If the underlying chip emulation works (some work has been done on it but I have no idea if it's functional) you can use it for actual physical LAN games (similar to how they work with at486 and DOOM), although I have no idea how the setup process in the game is.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: How to enable link mode
[Re: MetalGod]
#379271 - 11/02/18 03:34 PM
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> Anyway, I could make a list of this if neccesary with videos of the original cabinets
> working linked.
That would be considered deeply insulting by the dev team. Do you really think we're too stupid to know what games could be linked? Especially since we have the research power of Stiletto on our side 
NODEVICE_LAN is overlooked for the same reason NO_MULTICHANNEL_AUDIO is; that feature doesn't work in enough drivers to where it's worth pointing out, and it's pretty obscure in the ones where it does.
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For ethernet and lan, this would require more than one computer.
[Re: R. Belmont]
#379277 - 11/02/18 04:47 PM
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In theory, one could connect more than one computer using MAME to link these Seattle and Vegas games for they use the same Ethernet controller. These Seattle and Vegas games use a crossover ethernet cable to link as opposed to a standard one so it's unknown if a standard one would work on two computers.
I ask if linking these ethernet connected games are possible on a single machine running two MAME instances.
One exception currently is War Final Assault which has its ethernet controller communications hacked out otherwise the game boots in an infinite loop trying to look for another machine. Attempting to enter network test in test mode will freeze the machine. Someone needs to verify what happens if you insert a crossover cable in a War Final Assault machine without another machine connected and see what happens.
Edited by Hydreigon (11/02/18 04:48 PM)
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-.-
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Re: How to enable link mode in seattle and midvunit driving games ?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#379278 - 11/02/18 05:01 PM
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This is very interesting. So it would work, I'll check it...
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Re: How to enable link mode
[Re: R. Belmont]
#379279 - 11/02/18 05:02 PM
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Re: How to enable link mode in seattle and midvunit driving games ?
[Re: MetalGod]
#379280 - 11/02/18 05:36 PM
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> This is very interesting. So it would work, I'll check it...
No, he specifically said it would only work if there's been enough work done on the ethernet device to make it work, and that he has no idea if that's actually been done.
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Re: How to enable link mode in seattle and midvunit driving games ?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#379286 - 11/02/18 08:58 PM
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> > This is very interesting. So it would work, I'll check it...
>
> No, he specifically said it would only work if there's been enough work done on the
> ethernet device to make it work, and that he has no idea if that's actually been
> done.
No, it hasn't. There is some problem with smc91c94 device using the MAME network device interface.
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Re: For ethernet and lan, this would require more than one computer.
[Re: Hydreigon]
#379294 - 11/02/18 10:02 PM
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> I ask if linking these ethernet connected games are possible on a single machine
> running two MAME instances.
It wouldn't be using Ethernet, rather some software interprocess communication method (sockets), or you could use two Ethernet ports on one machine and connect them, configuring each instance to use a different port.
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Re: For ethernet and lan, this would require more than one computer.
[Re: anikom15]
#379295 - 11/02/18 10:09 PM
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> > I ask if linking these ethernet connected games are possible on a single machine
> > running two MAME instances.
>
> It wouldn't be using Ethernet, rather some software interprocess communication method
> (sockets), or you could use two Ethernet ports on one machine and connect them,
> configuring each instance to use a different port.
No it would still use ethernet, just localhost with each MAME instance on a separate port.
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Oh that makes things a lot easier then :) *nt*
[Re: tedgreen]
#379296 - 11/02/18 10:18 PM
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Narcissicism is a mental illness *nt*
[Re: Envisaged0ne]
#379297 - 11/02/18 10:20 PM
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War Final Assault's network problem
[Re: tedgreen]
#379303 - 11/03/18 02:11 AM
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This may explain why enabling it in War Final Assault would boot the game in some network check looking for a non existent machine.
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-.-
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Re: For ethernet and lan, this would require more than one computer.
[Re: anikom15]
#379306 - 11/03/18 05:11 AM
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> > I ask if linking these ethernet connected games are possible on a single machine
> > running two MAME instances.
>
> It wouldn't be using Ethernet, rather some software interprocess communication method
> (sockets), or you could use two Ethernet ports on one machine and connect them,
> configuring each instance to use a different port.
Have you actually used a system with emulated Ethernet in MAME (Interpro or a Mac/PC with a NIC)? It attaches to TAP/TUN on the host, and you can route it over real ethernet.
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I hate to admit but SailorSat wasn't the first to make linking machines in MAME possible.
[Re: gregf]
#379335 - 11/03/18 07:08 PM
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Couriersud made Gaelco 3d games linkable since early 2010.
https://github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/master/src/mame/machine/gaelco3d.cpp
The problem is the linking code is only compatible with unix based systems. It's currently impossible to compile using any system other than unix due to it requiring a unix only system file, mman.h. Idk if someone could convert the code on gaelco3d serial hardware to work with non unix systems.
SailorSat did hook an rs232 to harddriv.cpp to enable linking which is the same bus hardware midvunit.cpp (uses a DB25 cable to be exact). While I could hook rs232 code to midvunit.cpp, I don't know what "code/hardware/chip/" controls the rs232. Cruis'n USA is even worse where a special linking pal, A19993, is required and security for a good dump and reproduction still isn't understood.
Edited by Hydreigon (11/03/18 07:09 PM)
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-.-
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: I hate to admit but SailorSat wasn't the first to make linking machines in MAME possible.
[Re: Hydreigon]
#379371 - 11/05/18 02:01 AM
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>Couriersud made Gaelco 3d games linkable since early 2010.
The contributor that I miss the most. Granted Couriersud and others including Moogly got things underway, but that netlist work is a whole left field in which folks have to know their analog hardware to get stuff working.
>SailorSat did hook an rs232 to harddriv.cpp to enable linking which is the same bus
>hardware midvunit.cpp (uses a DB25 cable to be exact).
Yep. Her old posts have links to her youtube clips showing the link example.
> While I could hook rs232 code to midvunit.cpp, I don't know what "code/hardware/chip/"
>controls the rs232. Cruis'n USA is even worse where a special linking pal, A19993, is
>required and security for a good dump and reproduction still isn't understood.
It will be interesting seeing what happens later.
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Re: MooglyGuy offers no help, but clogs the thread. Gee thanks dumb shit. *nt*
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#379499 - 11/11/18 05:04 AM
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by providing the most accurate and to the point help in the thread? (nt)
[Re: Farnf]
#379500 - 11/11/18 07:06 AM
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Re: How to enable link mode in seattle and midvunit driving games ?
[Re: MetalGod]
#379536 - 11/13/18 02:40 AM
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> How to enable link mode in seattle and midvunit driving games ?
>
> How to enable link mode in games like california speed, san francisco rush or cruisn'
> world?
> Link is disabled by default
Learn English you must first.
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Someone cracked the linking PAL for Cruis'n USA recently.
[Re: gregf]
#379565 - 11/14/18 07:58 PM
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September 30th to be exact from the history on this wiki page.
http://www.jammarcade.net/pal-dumps/
I don't know if this could mean dumping of other pals is possible. I myself need to look at a Cruis'n World board for its pals too.
I am changing this link because at least it takes you to the proper website.
Edited by Hydreigon (11/14/18 08:55 PM)
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Re: Someone cracked the linking PAL for Cruis'n USA recently.
[Re: Hydreigon]
#379566 - 11/14/18 08:30 PM
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what kind of a link is this? scam, spam, malware?
it doesnt work for me.
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Bug hyperlinks. Copy/paste instead.
[Re: uman]
#379568 - 11/14/18 08:50 PM
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As what the title says. Idk what the heck is wrong. Most likely their website.
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Yeah right (nt)
[Re: Master O]
#379591 - 11/16/18 05:50 AM
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Edited by MetalGod (11/16/18 06:07 AM)
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That was uncalled-for.
[Re: Master O]
#379592 - 11/16/18 08:16 AM
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> > How to enable link mode in seattle and midvunit driving games ?
> >
> > How to enable link mode in games like california speed, san francisco rush or
> cruisn'
> > world?
> > Link is disabled by default
>
> Learn English you must first.
His English was perfectly understandable. Popping into the thread after like a week and a half just to criticize that is a hell of a cheap shot.
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Where MetalGod belongs...
[Re: MetalGod]
#379593 - 11/16/18 10:34 AM
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Re: Where MetalGod belongs...
[Re: grog]
#379596 - 11/16/18 12:52 PM
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Damn right, the dude's phenomenal at sorting out BTANBs.
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Yeah, I also love testing if an old issue is solved and indicating when it was fixed.
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#379602 - 11/16/18 05:25 PM
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Re: That was uncalled-for.
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#379605 - 11/16/18 07:44 PM
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I honestly appreciate your support and want to apologize for the "nt" confusion some weeks ago. That was stupid from me. Sorry.
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Re: That was uncalled-for.
[Re: MetalGod]
#379606 - 11/16/18 08:11 PM
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> I honestly appreciate your support and want to apologize for the "nt" confusion some
> weeks ago. That was stupid from me. Sorry.
No problem, man. It's some really old terminology on the board, I wouldn't expect everyone to be familiar with it these days.
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Cruis'n USA Arcade Machine Linking Problem
[Re: MetalGod]
#379612 - 11/17/18 03:46 AM
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I would like to know if there is any sort of link controller or function on these Midway V Unit games and how they work. A 26 pin IDC cable connects from the pcb to two DB25 ports which would be used to link game pcbs via DB25 cable.
I'm in a situation where two Cruis'n USAs, both having LCD monitors installed, will not link. The game board set to slave will have its monitor jitter/cut ever few seconds and the games remain unlinked. From what I know, doing the following doesn't work:
- Trying both straight thru and serial cables
- Changing the converters
- Using a sync cleaner
- Cleaning the 26pin IDC port.
- Replacing the ribbon cable.
Unless someone can confirm if there is a link controller on Midway V Unit, then I am stumped. It doesn't make sense how this hardware links fine on all CRT monitors but has trouble on some non CRT monitors.
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Re: Cruis'n USA Arcade Machine Linking Problem
[Re: Hydreigon]
#379613 - 11/17/18 05:40 AM
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I know TheGrid uses the link master's current vertical scan line to synchronize the link. The master machine periodically broadcasts what its current vertical scanline position is onto the link, and then all of the slaves slightly increase or decrease their vsync timing to try to align their screen vertical position to the master's.
Edited by tedgreen (11/17/18 05:46 AM)
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Same company, different hardware.
[Re: tedgreen]
#379614 - 11/17/18 07:46 AM
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If what you say is true, then idk if the same issue can happen on Midway Zeus II hardware, both Grid and Cruis'n Exotica. These games use a firewire cable for linking.
P.S. The original Midway Zeus didn't have any games with linking capabilities.
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Re: Same company, different hardware.
[Re: Hydreigon]
#379616 - 11/17/18 04:17 PM
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If that is true, you will likely never get your setup working, because LCD/LED dont have scanlines or a beam. They get a complete frame to display and getting this working in MAME, is currently impossible, because it also outputs frames. Either we need a hack or tool that converts the current outputted frame into a scanline/beam and fooling the Hardware so that linksyncing works or hope that in a future, MAME devs will implement beam-racing. At least it looks that it is maybe worth the effort for some drivers, beside to eliminate input-lag.
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Re: Same company, different hardware.
[Re: uman]
#379617 - 11/17/18 07:29 PM
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> If that is true, you will likely never get your setup working, because LCD/LED dont
> have scanlines or a beam. They get a complete frame to display and getting this
> working in MAME, is currently impossible, because it also outputs frames. Either we
> need a hack or tool that converts the current outputted frame into a scanline/beam
> and fooling the Hardware so that linksyncing works or hope that in a future, MAME
> devs will implement beam-racing. At least it looks that it is maybe worth the effort
> for some drivers, beside to eliminate input-lag.
I...was going to say the same thing. There has been instances where two Cruis'n USAs are linked using LCD monitors like in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6277izDRvo
My theory is it depends on how the monitor was designed and made.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Re: Same company, different hardware.
[Re: uman]
#379728 - 11/27/18 05:21 PM
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> If that is true, you will likely never get your setup working, because LCD/LED dont
> have scanlines or a beam.
What?
Emulated games in MAME don't know they aren't running on a CRT with conventional raster timing. Exactly how did you think the raster effects in hundreds of games work? Or border sync in the emulated computers?
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Re: Same company, different hardware.
[Re: R. Belmont]
#379729 - 11/27/18 05:48 PM
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> > If that is true, you will likely never get your setup working, because LCD/LED dont
> > have scanlines or a beam.
>
> What?
>
> Emulated games in MAME don't know they aren't running on a CRT with conventional
> raster timing. Exactly how did you think the raster effects in hundreds of games
> work? Or border sync in the emulated computers?
yeah, the main issue with emulating this way the link works on these games is that your PC monitor will never be quite in sync with the game (unless you're dynamically adjusting the PC monitor sync, which I guess requires gsync / freesync) It will likely end up picking a sync point that while is the same for all the emulated machines (in vblank) is in the middle of your actual screen for your PC monitor (thus causing some tearing) at least if running across a network. If you're running two machines on the same PC then in theory if you start both displays at the same time, and both are already perfectly synced, the game should know that.
as far as the emulation is concerned tho, you can increase / decrease the target frequency as required, the only thing that suffers slightly is the presentation because your actual monitor frequency isn't changing.
we'll likely run into the same 'system vblank time is not in sync with PC monitor vblank time' with other emulated systems that dynamically generate their sync signals and can even run unsynced at times (eg. zx81 where there are no sync signals during loading, but will start generating sync signals again once finished) but again, it's a presentation issue that freesync / gsync likely solves.
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