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Namco System 11/12 Bootup and Tekken 3
#371921 - 12/15/17 02:51 PM
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Hello everyone 
First off, I just want to say thank you very much for attempting to make the Namco System 11/12 emulation better as each MAME version gets released. This particularly applies to the Soul Calibur and Tekken series as I am a huge fan of those video game series. I was heartbroken when I was little when I found out that the emulation was not complete for the Namco System 11/12 systems. But I am absolutely thrilled that its close to near complete. Thanks again
I do have two questions to address though if that's OK. For the Namco System 11/12 games (at least in the case of the Soul Calibur and Tekken games; not sure if this is applicable to the other System 11/12 games), I noticed that during the bootup process, it does not show the "Initialising!! Jamma Video Standard" screen, and instead presents white, yellow, blue and green coloured bars as shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH9Xt0FgH8s. This is what the boot process looks like for those who are not sure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqLCqCMDoeg. Is there a reason why the MAME development team decided to do this? And if it is not meant to happen, will this be considered in future MAME releases? I know I am being a huge nag for pointing this out...I just like the emulation to be as accurate to the original PCB boards as possible...if that's not asking for too much...
Also, when I play "Tekken 3" on MAME and it goes to the credits, it pauses after it shows how you beaten each opponent, and then goes to the next stage after a few seconds. The sound is also in a constant pause. Strangely enough, it doesn't happen when it reaches Stage 9 where you fight Heihachi, and Stage 10 where you fight Ogre. Has anyone else encountered this issue? Or is it just me...(: If it is a general issue, please consider fixing this issue. I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you for taking your time to read this
Many thanks.
Kindest regards,
AnimeFan95
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Re: Namco System 11/12 Bootup and Tekken 3
[Re: AnimeFan95]
#371922 - 12/15/17 02:59 PM
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> Hello everyone
>
> First off, I just want to say thank you very much for attempting to make the Namco
> System 11/12 emulation better as each MAME version gets released. This particularly
> applies to the Soul Calibur and Tekken series as I am a huge fan of those video game
> series. I was heartbroken when I was little when I found out that the emulation was
> not complete for the Namco System 11/12 systems. But I am absolutely thrilled that
> its close to near complete. Thanks again
>
> I do have two questions to address though if that's OK. For the Namco System 11/12
> games (at least in the case of the Soul Calibur and Tekken games; not sure if this is
> applicable to the other System 11/12 games), I noticed that during the bootup
> process, it does not show the "Initialising!! Jamma Video Standard" screen, and
> instead presents white, yellow, blue and green coloured bars as shown in this video:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH9Xt0FgH8s. This is what the boot process looks like
> for those who are not sure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqLCqCMDoeg. Is there a
> reason why the MAME development team decided to do this? And if it is not meant to
> happen, will this be considered in future MAME releases? I know I am being a huge nag
> for pointing this out...I just like the emulation to be as accurate to the original
> PCB boards as possible...if that's not asking for too much...
>
> Also, when I play "Tekken 3" on MAME and it goes to the credits, it pauses after it
> shows how you beaten each opponent, and then goes to the next stage after a few
> seconds. The sound is also in a constant pause. Strangely enough, it doesn't happen
> when it reaches Stage 9 where you fight Heihachi, and Stage 10 where you fight Ogre.
> Has anyone else encountered this issue? Or is it just me...(: If it is a general
> issue, please consider fixing this issue. I would greatly appreciate it.
>
> Thank you for taking your time to read this
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Kindest regards,
> AnimeFan95
I believe the main differences on startup are because MAME emulates the boards as if they were connected using a the JAMMA standard, not the newer 'JVS' (aka JAMMA2) standard. The actual PCBs can be connected either way. The JVS protocol is newer, but potentially more laggy as I believe it actually involves additional MCUs to process the inputs etc. and often requires an additional sub-board as a result. (although I could be wrong here)
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Re: Namco System 11/12 Bootup and Tekken 3
[Re: AnimeFan95]
#371923 - 12/15/17 04:56 PM
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> and instead presents white, yellow, blue and green coloured bars as shown in this video:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH9Xt0FgH8s.
MAME only shows that because the original boards display that. It looks like your monitor isn't syncing properly when they would be displayed.
Do you have a 15khz, 31khz or dual sync monitor?
Are you using the Jamma edge connector or JVS inputs?
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Re: Namco System 11/12 Bootup and Tekken 3
[Re: smf]
#371928 - 12/15/17 06:08 PM
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Thanks for replying.
That's weird. Because the video as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqLCqCMDoeg&t=4s is outputting this boot screen on the original PCB. Correct me if I am wrong.
I am running the System 11/12 games on MAME. I am not using the original PCB, and therefore are not using the Jamma edge connector or JVS inputs. Sorry if that was not clear.
As for the monitor connected to the PC, I am not sure about the amount of khz it is utilising. Do you know how to verify this?
Many thanks.
Kind regards,
AnimeFan95
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Re: Namco System 11/12 Bootup and Tekken 3
[Re: Haze]
#371930 - 12/15/17 06:10 PM
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Ah. I see. Thank you for clarifying that
Do you have the same issue that I am encountering when Tekken 3 goes to the credits?
Many thanks.
Kind regards,
AnimeFan95
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I've been here before
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Re: Namco System 11/12 Bootup and Tekken 3
[Re: AnimeFan95]
#371945 - 12/15/17 08:17 PM
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> Thanks for replying.
>
> That's weird. Because the video as shown here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqLCqCMDoeg&t=4s is outputting this boot screen
> on the original PCB. Correct me if I am wrong.
Sorry, I thought that was your video. All of my questions would therefore need to be asked of the person who posted the video. But you can clearly see the monitor powering up when the Initialising screen has already shown up, it shouldn't fade in like that.
Normally JVS uses 31khz and it's been suggested that System 12 may be able to output 31khz but because it's PlayStation based then it would boot up in 15khz and switch. If the monitor was already on and the game switched between 15khz and 31khz then that might also explain why the monitor isn't operating when the bars are displayed. It's just as likely that they turn the monitor and board on at the same time and their monitor doesn't power up quick enough to display the colour bars.
MAME doesn't emulate the JVS inputs because it's harder to do and it has more latency than the JAMMA inputs, therefore you don't see the JVS check screen. Maybe one day it will, but it will display the colour bars first because that is the correct behaviour for a board.
Edited by John Doe (12/15/17 08:24 PM)
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Re: Namco System 11/12 Bootup and Tekken 3
[Re: smf]
#371993 - 12/17/17 07:45 PM
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It's okay. Ah I see. That makes so much sense now. Thanks for clarifying this
Have you also encountered this issue: "when I play "Tekken 3" on MAME and it goes to the credits, it pauses after it shows how you beaten each opponent, and then goes to the next stage after a few seconds. The sound is also in a constant pause. Strangely enough, it doesn't happen when it reaches Stage 9 where you fight Heihachi, and Stage 10 where you fight Ogre."
If so, do you know if this is a emulation fault?
Many thanks.
Kind regards,
AnimeFan95
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Re: Namco System 11/12 Bootup and Tekken 3
[Re: AnimeFan95]
#372008 - 12/18/17 12:48 PM
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> Have you also encountered this issue: "when I play "Tekken 3" on MAME and it goes to
> the credits, it pauses after it shows how you beaten each opponent, and then goes to
> the next stage after a few seconds. The sound is also in a constant pause. Strangely
> enough, it doesn't happen when it reaches Stage 9 where you fight Heihachi, and Stage
> 10 where you fight Ogre."
>
> If so, do you know if this is a emulation fault?
>
Can you record an inp?
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Certainly. Here it is
I apologise for not recording in MAME. It for some reason crashed during the second stage. So I hope a .wmv file is feasible.
Many thanks.
Kind regards,
AnimeFan95
Edited by AnimeFan95 (12/18/17 03:01 PM)
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Re: Namco System 11/12 Bootup and Tekken 3
[Re: AnimeFan95]
#372014 - 12/18/17 03:08 PM
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> So I hope a .wmv file is feasible.
The developers can't play a .wmv file back in a running instance of MAME...
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Re: Namco System 11/12 Bootup and Tekken 3
[Re: AnimeFan95]
#372016 - 12/18/17 06:32 PM
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> I apologise for not recording in MAME. It for some reason crashed during the second
> stage. So I hope a .wmv file is feasible.
An INP recording is the controls, so that someone can run it again without having to play it.
mame tekken3 -record crash.inp
Then send the crash.inp, hopefully
mame tekken3 -playback crash.inp
Would do exactly the same thing every time & it gives a chance to track down the problem.
A wmv only allows us to see that yes it crashes.
Edited by John Doe (12/18/17 06:34 PM)
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Re: Namco System 11/12 Bootup and Tekken 3
[Re: smf]
#372017 - 12/18/17 06:41 PM
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> > I apologise for not recording in MAME. It for some reason crashed during the second
> > stage. So I hope a .wmv file is feasible.
>
> An INP recording is the controls, so that someone can run it again without having to
> play it.
>
> mame tekken3 -record crash.inp
>
> Then send the crash.inp, hopefully
>
> mame tekken3 -playback crash.inp
>
> Would do exactly the same thing every time & it gives a chance to track down the
> problem.
>
> A wmv only allows us to see that yes it crashes.
probably important to note that with any drivers that save settings to nvram you're going to have to clear the nvram out before recording or playback otherwise what you record won't playback for anybody else anyway.
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Re: Namco System 11/12 Bootup and Tekken 3
[Re: smf]
#372023 - 12/18/17 09:40 PM Attachment: crash.zip 101 KB (2 downloads)
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Ok. I understand. Sorry. I had issues with recording the input in MAME but now I finally succeed.
Here is the attached file.
Many thanks.
Kind regards,
AnimeFan95
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Re: Namco System 11/12 Bootup and Tekken 3
[Re: AnimeFan95]
#372320 - 12/25/17 01:53 AM
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Most System 12 games supported both 15 kHz JAMMA hookup and 31 kHz JVS hookup. MAME emulates the JAMMA standard for games that allow it, and JVS for those few that don't.
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Re: Namco System 11/12 Bootup and Tekken 3
[Re: AnimeFan95]
#372353 - 12/25/17 11:32 PM
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> It's okay. Ah I see. That makes so much sense now. Thanks for clarifying this
>
> Have you also encountered this issue: "when I play "Tekken 3" on MAME and it goes to
> the credits, it pauses after it shows how you beaten each opponent, and then goes to
> the next stage after a few seconds. The sound is also in a constant pause. Strangely
> enough, it doesn't happen when it reaches Stage 9 where you fight Heihachi, and Stage
> 10 where you fight Ogre."
>
> If so, do you know if this is a emulation fault?
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Kind regards,
> AnimeFan95
The credits replays don't lag if you are using True Ogre, as it doesn't load the backgrounds, only the floors (there is also a cheat which can enable/disable the background for True Ogre fights, IIRC disabling the background via the cheat also stops the game from lagging at the end). It actually does lag when it is loading Heihachi's stage, although if you had fought Julia on stage 8 it doesn't take as long as the stage data was already loaded (they share the same backgrounds). Oddly, Tekken Tag Tournament doesn't have any lag between stages in the credits.
But yeah, "video emulation isn't 100% accurate" means exactly that - it's been like that for the best part of a decade and everyone has got used to it. Tekken Tag's screen has also been off to the side ever since the game became playable.
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