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DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
#366995 - 06/20/17 04:03 AM
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Shoutime dumped the following MCUs with brizzo's custom 68705 dumper hardware:
TAITO ARKANOID V2.1 MCU (Japan)
D.R. KOREA TETRIS MCU (Korea)
TAITO ARKANOID V1 MCU (Japan/US/WORLD)
TAITO SLAP FIGHT JAMMA Version MCU (Japan)
TAITO FRONTLINE MCU
TAITO ELEVATOR ACTION MCU (Japan)
TAITO TOURNAMENT ARKANOID MCU (US)
TOAPLAN GETSTAR MCU (Japan) [also for GUARDIAN (US)]
TECHNOS JAPAN XAIN'D SLEENA MCU (Japan)
TOAPLAN TIGER HELI MCU (Japan)
TAITO PUZZNIC MCU (Japan)
TECHNOS JAPAN Nekketsu Kouha Kunio--kun MCU (Japan)
Seibu Kaihatsu EMPIRE CITY 1931 MCU (Japan)
TAITO SCRAMBLE FORMATION/TOKIO MCU (Japan/US/WORLD)
KANEKO PREBILLIAN MCU (Japan)
TAITO The Fairyland Story MCU (Japan/World)
TAITO THE LEGEND OF KAGE YM2203 Version MCU (Japan/US/World
TAITO TYPHOON GAL MCU (Japan)
TAITO BUGGY CHALLENGE MCU (US/World)
TOAPLAN RETURN OF THE INVADERS MCU (Japan/World)
TAITO KICK START MCU (Japan)
The Undoukai/Field Day MCU (Japan/World)
SJ TAITO SEA FIGHTER POSEIDON MCU (Japan)
TAITO FORTY-LOVE 40-0 MCU (Japan/World)
TAITO Chack'n Pop MCU (Japan)
TAITO METAL SOLDIER ISAAC II MCU (Japan)
TAITO RUMBA LUMBER MCU (Japan)
These are totally new game dumps on top of it:
KANEKO JUMP-kun (Japan, Prototype)
TAITO FORTY-LOVE 40-0 (Japan)
ATLUS POWER INSTINCT Location Test Version (US, Prototype)
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| ShouTime |
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PCB Collector
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's
[Re: Smitdogg]
#366999 - 06/20/17 04:16 AM
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With help from Corrado Tomaselli, Team Japump and the Game Preservation Society!
> Shoutime dumped the following MCUs with brizzo's custom 68705 dumper hardware
>
>
> TAITO ARKANOID V2.1 MCU (Japan)
> D.R. KOREA TETRIS (Korea)
> TAITO ARKANOID V1 MCU (Japan/US/WORLD)
> TAITO SLAP FIGHT JAMMA Version MCU (Japan)
> TAITO FRONTLINE MCU
> TAITO ELEVATOR ACTION MCU (Japan)
> TAITO TOURNAMENT ARKANOID MCU (US)
> TOAPLAN GETSTAR MCU (Japan) [also for GUARDIAN (US)]
> TECHNOS JAPAN XAIN'D SLEENA MCU (Japan)
> TOAPLAN TIGER HELI MCU (Japan)
> TAITO PUZZNIC MCU (Japan)
> TECHNOS JAPAN Nekketsu Kouha Kunio--kun MCU (Japan)
> Seibu Kaihatsu EMPIRE CITY 1931 MCU (Japan)
> TAITO SCRAMBLE FORMATION/TOKIO MCU (Japan/US/WORLD)
> KANEKO PREBILLIAN MCU (Japan)
> TAITO The Fairyland Story MCU (Japan/World)
> TAITO THE LEGEND OF KAGE YM2203 Version MCU (Japan/US/World
> TAITO TYPHOON GAL MCU (Japan)
> TAITO BUGGY CHALLENGE MCU (US/World)
> TOAPLAN RETURN OF THE INVADERS MCU (Japan/World)
> KANEKO JUMP-kun (Japan, Prototype)
> TAITO KICK START MCU (Japan)
> The Undoukai/Field Day MCU (Japan/World)
> SJ TAITO SEA FIGHTER POSEIDON MCU (Japan)
> TAITO FORTY-LOVE 40-0 MCU (Japan/World)
> TAITO FORTY-LOVE 40-0 (Japan)
> TAITO Chack'n Pop MCU (Japan)
> TAITO METAL SOLDIER ISAAC II MCU (Japan)
> TAITO RUMBA LUMBER MCU (Japan)
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Dumped: 3on3 DUNK MADNESS US, A.B. Cop JP, AIR INFERNO JP, AquaJack US, BATTLE SHARK Joystick, CRACKIN' DJ PART 2 JP, DOUBLE AXLE DX US, ENFORCE W, GP RIDER JP, GUN SURVIVOR 2 JP/W, GUNBUSTER US, GUNHARD, HANG PILOT US, Ikari III JP, JET WAVE JP, Last Survivor, MARS TV JP, MAZAN US, NINJA ASSAULT JP/W, OutRunners JP, Panic ROAD DE, PUNCH-OUT!! JP, Radirgy Ver. A, SPACE GUN JP/US, STARBLADE W, SUPER RANGER DE, SUZUKA 8 Hours 2 JP, TERRA FORCE JP, THUNDER ZONE JP, Western Express JP
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's
[Re: ShouTime]
#367000 - 06/20/17 04:32 AM
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All I can say is ..... WOW!!!!!
That’s fantastic, again I (we) can only humbly say THANK YOU ShouTime, Brad and all involved!!
BrianT
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's
[Re: ShouTime]
#367005 - 06/20/17 05:46 AM
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Amazing Amazing progress. Beautiful work guys. Thanks to everyone involved.
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's
[Re: Smitdogg]
#367006 - 06/20/17 05:59 AM
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Does anyone know what MCU is used for the Namco C65 and Namco C68? (used to handle inputs and things for Namco System 2 games). Is there a known way to extract the internal contents of these MCUs? Is it case of chips (or boards) needing to be acquired and dumped/trojaned/decapped?
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's
[Re: ShouTime]
#367008 - 06/20/17 08:27 AM
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I had recently seen this piece about the Game Preservation Society on NHK World. It is very cool to see these collaborative efforts taking shape again. Bigtime thanks to everyone involved!
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: Smitdogg]
#367012 - 06/20/17 09:32 AM
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Just to understand better: aren't some of the MCUs already dumped? For example "Fairyland Story"... Am I missing something? Thanks!
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: ederenzi78]
#367013 - 06/20/17 09:40 AM
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Puzznic I dumped a few years ago from a freak chance where I got a board where the MCU protection bit wasn't set. This will help confirm if it's good or bad or faked or what.
Tokio was dumped a few months ago, not sure if it was added to mame yet, re-included here for completeness of the MCU stuff done by Shoutime with the 68705 dumper.
I'm guessing on Fairyland Story, it looks like an MCU dump came from the year 2000 so it's either a freak chance the MCU didn't have its protection bit set and this is confirming it's correct or not, or the MCU dump was taken from a bootleg version and this is confirming whether it's an actual dump the bootleggers extracted or whether they just faked it. I haven't heard any specific talk about it.
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| ShouTime |
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PCB Collector
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Posts: 54
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Loc: Tokyo, Japan, Asia, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: Smitdogg]
#367017 - 06/20/17 10:46 AM
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> Puzznic I dumped a few years ago from a freak chance where I got a board where the
> MCU protection bit wasn't set. This will help confirm if it's good or bad or faked or
> what.
>
> Tokio was dumped a few months ago, not sure if it was added to mame yet, re-included
> here for completeness of the MCU stuff done by Shoutime with the 68705 dumper.
>
> I'm guessing on Fairyland Story, it looks like an MCU dump came from the year 2000 so
> it's either a freak chance the MCU didn't have its protection bit set and this is
> confirming it's correct or not, or the MCU dump was taken from a bootleg version and
> this is confirming whether it's an actual dump the bootleggers extracted or whether
> they just faked it. I haven't heard any specific talk about it.
The MCU dump of Fairyland Story in MAME is a bootleg.
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Dumped: 3on3 DUNK MADNESS US, A.B. Cop JP, AIR INFERNO JP, AquaJack US, BATTLE SHARK Joystick, CRACKIN' DJ PART 2 JP, DOUBLE AXLE DX US, ENFORCE W, GP RIDER JP, GUN SURVIVOR 2 JP/W, GUNBUSTER US, GUNHARD, HANG PILOT US, Ikari III JP, JET WAVE JP, Last Survivor, MARS TV JP, MAZAN US, NINJA ASSAULT JP/W, OutRunners JP, Panic ROAD DE, PUNCH-OUT!! JP, Radirgy Ver. A, SPACE GUN JP/US, STARBLADE W, SUPER RANGER DE, SUZUKA 8 Hours 2 JP, TERRA FORCE JP, THUNDER ZONE JP, Western Express JP
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: ShouTime]
#367021 - 06/20/17 12:14 PM
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> > this is confirming whether it's an actual dump the bootleggers extracted or whether
> > they just faked it. I haven't heard any specific talk about it.
>
> The MCU dump of Fairyland Story in MAME is a bootleg.
More specifically, it appears to have been faked by the bootleggers; the code base is wildly different.
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: ShouTime]
#367024 - 06/20/17 01:49 PM
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> > Tokio was dumped a few months ago, not sure if it was added to mame yet,
> re-included
> > here for completeness of the MCU stuff done by Shoutime with the 68705 dumper.
Tokio MCU was added back in MAME 0.186 and is working fine AFAIK. The game had several issues before this implementation, such as the plane shadow over high resolution areas where the plane is clearly too far away from land, some sprites had graphic glitches, the AI of some of the enemies was different and the game was crashing after a few minutes of gameplay. So I guess this one is not really needed, unless its proven to be a better/cleaner dump.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's
[Re: jonwil]
#367025 - 06/20/17 01:50 PM
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> Does anyone know what MCU is used for the Namco C65 and Namco C68? (used to handle
> inputs and things for Namco System 2 games). Is there a known way to extract the
> internal contents of these MCUs? Is it case of chips (or boards) needing to be
> acquired and dumped/trojaned/decapped?
C68 doesn't have an internal program; it's been emulated in MAME for 4+ years. (It's a Mitsu M37450, a 6502 derivative). It also showed up as the main CPU of a Namco electro-mechanical game recently, again with an external program ROM.
C65 is a 63B05 according to the notes in namcos2.cpp. That's a 6805 variant I'm not familiar with.
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: Smitdogg]
#367031 - 06/20/17 04:55 PM
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Thanks to all parties involved into getting Team Japump back into working with the Mame Team. Thanks to Team Japump into giving Mame all the dumps or lending the boards/pcb's?.
THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS
Edited by agard (06/20/17 05:03 PM)
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: agard]
#367032 - 06/20/17 05:07 PM
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Same here! Congrats to everyone involved.
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: agard]
#367033 - 06/20/17 05:08 PM
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They just lent out Chak'n Pop several years ago after which the MCU from it was accidentally destroyed. So they didn't have anything to do with my post.
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: Smitdogg]
#367038 - 06/20/17 09:49 PM
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Fantastic news guys, Thanks for all hard work 
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: Smitdogg]
#367042 - 06/21/17 12:12 AM
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Nice news
Someday, in a distant future, dump the PIC16c57 (in cps1 bootlegs)
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: fortuna_chan]
#367043 - 06/21/17 12:17 AM
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Does it even affect gameplay? I doubt you could even get a dev to hook it up. Sounds like a waste of resources.
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: Smitdogg]
#367045 - 06/21/17 12:46 AM
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Just look at all those beauties!! the MAME Dev's workload has just significantly increased but in a good way, big thanks to all concerned
in dumping all of the above MCU's and games great job.
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Arcade Addict
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: Smitdogg]
#367050 - 06/21/17 04:23 AM
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I too would like to offer my thanks and appreciation for this!
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: Smitdogg]
#367051 - 06/21/17 04:25 AM
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2017 is going to be a big year for MAME 
Thanks for the positive words everyone!
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: Smitdogg]
#367069 - 06/21/17 11:11 AM
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you just wanted to post all in 1 go all those dumps really!! I don't think you would have finished posting yet if you had done 1 at a time. THANKS Smitdogg THE DU
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: Smitdogg]
#367070 - 06/21/17 11:13 AM
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> Does it even affect gameplay? I doubt you could even get a dev to hook it up. Sounds
> like a waste of resources.
they drive the crappy sound system with the 10 second music clip loops and limited sound channels...
we'd hook them up if they were available (I suspect they'd be similar to things like Dragon Master, which does seem to basically be bootleg CPS1 hardware)
PICs are relatively easy to deal with, but it's still time consuming and costly just for some bootleg sound.
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's
[Re: R. Belmont]
#367072 - 06/21/17 12:03 PM
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There seem to be 2 different variants of the M37450 in use. One is a stock Mitsubishi part with no internal ROM used on finalap3jc (at least, if not other games) as seen in this picture:
http://smitdogg.mameworld.info/pics/final-lap-3-j-1.jpg (it appears as though the chip marked sys2c68 is dumped but not yet hooked up in namcos2.cpp)
And the second is the Namco C68 with undumped internal ROM (last I heard one was sent for decapping but I dont know what happened to it or whether its still in the decapping queue)
Some boards with a C68 have no external program like this Suzuka 8 Hours PCB
https://coinoppartsetc.com/sites/default...0%20%281%29.JPG
this Suzuka 8 Hours 2 PCB
http://ci-cdn.23bits.com/_s/7/189/si-130926132929-960.jpg
or the Lucky & Wild PCB (which the driver says is unpopulated)
Other boards with the c68 have external program ROMs (the driver mentions some of the sws sets for example)
If anyone has any further information (e.g. whether the internal ROM of the Namco C68 has been dumped or is in the queue to be dumped or whether wiring up Suzuka 8 Hours and Suzuka 8 Hours 2 with the correct C68 internal program with no external ROM rather than whatever MCU program they are currently using will make any difference to the controls of those 2 games) please feel free to share 
EDIT:
I also found this other picture:
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/G9oAAOSwCU1Yz8BR/s-l1600.jpg
of a Suzuka 8 Hours 2 PCB which seems to be clear enough to read the "C68" designation on the MCU (as opposed to the Mitsubishi designation in the Final Lap PCB picture)
Edited by jonwil (06/21/17 12:14 PM)
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's
[Re: jonwil]
#367080 - 06/21/17 06:32 PM
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> rather than whatever MCU program they are currently using will make any difference to
> the controls of those 2 games) please feel free to share
Wiring it up will not change the controls from whatever hack is currently in place. Namco's very fond of passing the controls through unnecessary microcontrollers as a form of protection.
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's
[Re: R. Belmont]
#367082 - 06/21/17 06:38 PM
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> > rather than whatever MCU program they are currently using will make any difference
> to
> > the controls of those 2 games) please feel free to share
>
> Wiring it up will not change the controls from whatever hack is currently in place.
> Namco's very fond of passing the controls through unnecessary microcontrollers as a
> form of protection.
often adding an extra frame or 2 of lag in the process from what I can tell, much like you get with modern machines and all the layers of code signals need to go through before they actually hit the game.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's
[Re: Haze]
#367086 - 06/21/17 09:20 PM
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> often adding an extra frame or 2 of lag in the process from what I can tell, much
> like you get with modern machines and all the layers of code signals need to go
> through before they actually hit the game.
The MCU usually reads the controls at vblank, and the main game fetches them from the shared RAM at the same time, so there's always 1 frame of lag added in that scheme.
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's
[Re: R. Belmont]
#367087 - 06/21/17 09:22 PM
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> > often adding an extra frame or 2 of lag in the process from what I can tell, much
> > like you get with modern machines and all the layers of code signals need to go
> > through before they actually hit the game.
>
> The MCU usually reads the controls at vblank, and the main game fetches them from the
> shared RAM at the same time, so there's always 1 frame of lag added in that scheme.
I thought some of the ones with analog inputs sampled the analog inputs over 2 frames on the MCU, writing all the data (including digital inputs) to shared ram with a delay as a result rather than allowing the game code to poll the input lines on the standard inputs directly.
Could be wrong tho, sure I remember somebody pulling apart the MCU code for one of the games and saying that tho.
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's
[Re: R. Belmont]
#367089 - 06/21/17 11:53 PM
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I suspect that trying to play a game where the input device is a motorcycle that you tilt left and right to make it steer with any other kind of input device is never going to work like the real thing regardless of what MAME may do to the code or how the bike steering input is defined...
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's
[Re: Haze]
#367093 - 06/22/17 01:56 AM
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> I thought some of the ones with analog inputs sampled the analog inputs over 2 frames
> on the MCU, writing all the data (including digital inputs) to shared ram with a
> delay as a result rather than allowing the game code to poll the input lines on the
> standard inputs directly.
The ones I've disassembled just write the ADC output right to shared RAM when the conversion done IRQ fires.
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Re: DU: So many MCUs I don't know what to do's (updated with better categories and new game)
[Re: Smitdogg]
#367098 - 06/22/17 03:03 AM
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wow! thanks guys for all the work put into it
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