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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Smitdogg]
#361524 - 12/21/16 06:01 AM
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I am mighty pleased about this one! 
Edited by Tornadoboy (12/21/16 06:07 AM)
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| gregf |
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Smitdogg]
#361555 - 12/21/16 11:45 PM
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>Andrew Welburn and Craig Anstett dumped Victory.
Good to see that pcb picked up and roms preserved. imo That block box cover near connector looks like it could be a troublemaker in trying to get game to be emulated.
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: gregf]
#361585 - 12/22/16 04:13 PM
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At least it's socketed and not epoxied right to the board, hopefully whatever protection scheme it's using isn't too harsh. I was tempted to take it with me to a dentist appointment and see if I could talk them into x-raying it, but I forgot to bring it.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: gregf]
#361588 - 12/22/16 06:04 PM
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> > Andrew Welburn and Craig Anstett dumped Victory.
>
> Good to see that pcb picked up and roms preserved. imo That block box cover near
> connector looks like it could be a troublemaker in trying to get game to be emulated.
It's definitely problematic, the ROMs are encrypted in some way as you'd guess. I thought it was a relatively simple repeating 64-byte XOR pattern, but there's more to it after applying that.
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| gregf |
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Tornadoboy]
#361600 - 12/22/16 10:40 PM
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Thanks with getting the pcb.
>I was tempted to take it with me to a dentist appointment and see if I could talk them
>into x-raying it, but I forgot to bring it.
Heh. See if that procdure gets added as an item to the dentist's bill when it arrives to insurance medical provider to see what gets covered or not. ;-) *kidding*
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| gregf |
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: R. Belmont]
#361601 - 12/22/16 10:48 PM
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>>Good to see that pcb picked up and roms preserved. imo That block box cover near
>>connector looks like it could be a troublemaker in trying to get game to be emulated.
>It's definitely problematic, the ROMs are encrypted in some way as you'd guess. I thought
>it was a relatively simple repeating 64-byte XOR pattern, but there's more to it after
>applying that.
Hopefully nowhere as impossible compared to the Seibu Air Raid/Cross Shooter pcb.
Seeing this photo, it somewhat reminds me of the MidCoin [Italy] pcbs that HIGHWAYMAN and others were trying to extract data from a block. This was about 10 or 11 years ago when trying get MidCoin games such as Wink to be playable iirc.
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: gregf]
#361602 - 12/22/16 11:11 PM
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> Thanks with getting the pcb.
>
> > I was tempted to take it with me to a dentist appointment and see if I could talk
> them
> > into x-raying it, but I forgot to bring it.
>
> Heh. See if that procdure gets added as an item to the dentist's bill when it
> arrives to insurance medical provider to see what gets covered or not. ;-) *kidding*
My pleasure, always happy to do what I can to help preserve an endangered game! I'm just hoping that the data is complete and still good, if it is I'm sure whatever protection it has will be figured out eventually.
I'm anxious to actually be able to play it, whether through MAME or the board itself, I've never heard of it and have no idea what it's like.
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Eeekk! too
[Re: Tornadoboy]
#361737 - 12/25/16 01:51 AM
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Eeekk!
New games added
--
Eeekk! [Andrew Welburn, Craig Anstett, smf]
Good work there with everyone involved. Kudos to whoever was able to get the pcb and have roms dumped from pcb.
I never saw nor played the game, but the name is memorable because one of the MAMEdevs from about 10 or 11 years earlier was trying to bid for a pcb, but lost the auction at the time. He still visits now and then so he will probably see it being supported.
>My pleasure, always happy to do what I can to help preserve an endangered game! I'm just
>hoping that the data is complete and still good, if it is I'm sure whatever protection
>it has will be figured out eventually. I'm anxious to actually be able to play it,
>whether through MAME or the board itself, I've never heard of it and have no idea what
>it's like.
I have never heard of or seen Victory before and my guess is Dan Hower does not yet have an arcade flyer of that game either. So it remains a bit of a mystery of what the game looks like.
Good luck to whoever can deal with that protection device and get any roms or proms, if device has any, to be able to be extracted in some manner....hopefully not in a way that ruins the pcb.
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: R. Belmont]
#361765 - 12/25/16 10:07 PM
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For the record you guys have my permission to dig that module out of the epoxy if you have to and think you can do it without destroying it's functionality, I don't care how it looks as long as it still works, assuming it does now.
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Tornadoboy]
#361766 - 12/25/16 10:16 PM
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> For the record you guys have my permission to dig that module out of the epoxy if you
> have to and think you can do it without destroying it's functionality, I don't care
> how it looks as long as it still works, assuming it does now.
according to the doc provided it doesn't work properly.
i'm assuming this is the same one somebody was trying to take the piss with by wanting $200 or similar for on ebay when it really looked like there were missing roms?
I hope nobody actually paid that much, because such behaviour shouldn't be encouraged, people asking that much for broken games really could do with being buried 6 feet under.
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Haze]
#361768 - 12/25/16 10:22 PM
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I had been keeping half an eye on it for a while and originally they wanted something absolutely nuts for it like $500, then it gradually dropped over a year or so. On impulse I ended up grabbing it for an offered price of about $80, perhaps that was foolish but I wanted to save it from oblivion.
If it gets dug out of the epoxy, what is needed can be dumped and it's something that is reproducible I'll draw out the foil pattern for that module and make it public if anybody in the future wants one. That of course assumes the game even proves viable and just doesn't overall suck as a game period. 
There's a certain popular arcade in the north east I've been wanting to donate something rare and exotic to, this one could fit the bill if everything works out.
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Tornadoboy]
#361769 - 12/25/16 10:27 PM
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> I had been keeping half an eye on it for a while and originally they wanted something
> absolutely nuts for it like $500, then it gradually dropped over a year or so. I
> ended up grabbing it for about $80, perhaps that was foolish but I wanted to save it
> from oblivion.
>
> If it gets dug out of the epoxy, what is needed can be dumped and it's something that
> is reproducible I'll draw out the foil pattern for that module and make it public if
> anybody in the future wants one. That of course assumes the game even proves viable
> and just doesn't overall suck as a game period.
>
> There's a certain popular arcade in the north east I've been wanting to donate
> something rare and exotic to, this one could fit the bill if everything works out.
Well if nobody else looks at the encryption I'll give it a shot after the release
but I honestly wouldn't get your hopes up too high, my gut feeling is that something is missing, and at best we'll get a partially working game.
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Haze]
#361770 - 12/25/16 10:31 PM
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> but I honestly wouldn't get your hopes up too high, my gut feeling is that something
> is missing, and at best we'll get a partially working game.
Sadly I know that's a very, very real possibility, I also get major bad vibes come from that empty socket. 
Who knows, maybe someday that missing EPROM will turn up in another board? We can only do what we can and hope.
There's another game I dumped too that I think is an undumped version of Super Tank, but that ended up have a bad EPROM, which it's why it's important to dump as many of these games while we still can.
On the bright side Eeekk! is now safe, I'm looking forward to trying it! I've got a Street Heat daughter board and I wonder if I'll be able to convert it?
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Tornadoboy]
#361771 - 12/25/16 10:37 PM
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> > but I honestly wouldn't get your hopes up too high, my gut feeling is that
> something
> > is missing, and at best we'll get a partially working game.
>
> Sadly I know that's a very, very real possibility, I also get major bad vibes come
> from that empty socket.
>
> Who knows, maybe someday that missing EPROM will turn up in another board? We can
> only do what we can and hope.
>
> There's another game I dumped too that I think is an undumped version of Super Tank,
> but that ended up have a bad EPROM, which it's why it's important to dump as many of
> these games while we still can.
>
> On the bright side Eeekk! is now safe, I'm looking forward to trying it! I've got a
> Street Heat daughter board and I wonder if I'll be able to convert it?
yeah, it happens, it's always worth submitting the dumps even if one is bad or parts are missing, I'd just be careful paying over the odds for broken things, $500 for a game a seller couldn't even get running properly was just absurd.
probably the most famous example of 2 partial dumps making a complete one is with the Moon War prototype in MAME, where the sound board was first dumped (and seemed quite mysterious, it contained speech that seemed to be for Moon War, but no version of Moon War used that hardware) the actual game board turned up a few years later, without the sound board, and was dumped, giving us a complete set. Maybe not a case of bad roms, but a case of why dumping what you have is important.
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Haze]
#361781 - 12/26/16 02:04 AM
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> > > but I honestly wouldn't get your hopes up too high, my gut feeling is that
> > something
> > > is missing, and at best we'll get a partially working game.
> >
> > Sadly I know that's a very, very real possibility, I also get major bad vibes come
> > from that empty socket.
> >
> > Who knows, maybe someday that missing EPROM will turn up in another board? We can
> > only do what we can and hope.
> >
> > There's another game I dumped too that I think is an undumped version of Super
> Tank,
> > but that ended up have a bad EPROM, which it's why it's important to dump as many
> of
> > these games while we still can.
> >
> > On the bright side Eeekk! is now safe, I'm looking forward to trying it! I've got a
> > Street Heat daughter board and I wonder if I'll be able to convert it?
>
> yeah, it happens, it's always worth submitting the dumps even if one is bad or parts
> are missing, I'd just be careful paying over the odds for broken things, $500 for a
> game a seller couldn't even get running properly was just absurd.
>
> probably the most famous example of 2 partial dumps making a complete one is with the
> Moon War prototype in MAME, where the sound board was first dumped (and seemed quite
> mysterious, it contained speech that seemed to be for Moon War, but no version of
> Moon War used that hardware) the actual game board turned up a few years later,
> without the sound board, and was dumped, giving us a complete set. Maybe not a case
> of bad roms, but a case of why dumping what you have is important.
Which is also why it's even more critical to decide on what to do about the Laserdisc games still not in Mame.
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Master O]
#361782 - 12/26/16 02:06 AM
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> > > > but I honestly wouldn't get your hopes up too high, my gut feeling is that
> > > something
> > > > is missing, and at best we'll get a partially working game.
> > >
> > > Sadly I know that's a very, very real possibility, I also get major bad vibes
> come
> > > from that empty socket.
> > >
> > > Who knows, maybe someday that missing EPROM will turn up in another board? We can
> > > only do what we can and hope.
> > >
> > > There's another game I dumped too that I think is an undumped version of Super
> > Tank,
> > > but that ended up have a bad EPROM, which it's why it's important to dump as many
> > of
> > > these games while we still can.
> > >
> > > On the bright side Eeekk! is now safe, I'm looking forward to trying it! I've got
> a
> > > Street Heat daughter board and I wonder if I'll be able to convert it?
> >
> > yeah, it happens, it's always worth submitting the dumps even if one is bad or
> parts
> > are missing, I'd just be careful paying over the odds for broken things, $500 for a
> > game a seller couldn't even get running properly was just absurd.
> >
> > probably the most famous example of 2 partial dumps making a complete one is with
> the
> > Moon War prototype in MAME, where the sound board was first dumped (and seemed
> quite
> > mysterious, it contained speech that seemed to be for Moon War, but no version of
> > Moon War used that hardware) the actual game board turned up a few years later,
> > without the sound board, and was dumped, giving us a complete set. Maybe not a case
> > of bad roms, but a case of why dumping what you have is important.
>
> Which is also why it's even more critical to decide on what to do about the Laserdisc
> games still not in Mame.
I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Laserdiscs, or how the conversation is even remotely relevant to that subject.
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Haze]
#361783 - 12/26/16 02:08 AM
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> > > > > but I honestly wouldn't get your hopes up too high, my gut feeling is that
> > > > something
> > > > > is missing, and at best we'll get a partially working game.
> > > >
> > > > Sadly I know that's a very, very real possibility, I also get major bad vibes
> > come
> > > > from that empty socket.
> > > >
> > > > Who knows, maybe someday that missing EPROM will turn up in another board? We
> can
> > > > only do what we can and hope.
> > > >
> > > > There's another game I dumped too that I think is an undumped version of Super
> > > Tank,
> > > > but that ended up have a bad EPROM, which it's why it's important to dump as
> many
> > > of
> > > > these games while we still can.
> > > >
> > > > On the bright side Eeekk! is now safe, I'm looking forward to trying it! I've
> got
> > a
> > > > Street Heat daughter board and I wonder if I'll be able to convert it?
> > >
> > > yeah, it happens, it's always worth submitting the dumps even if one is bad or
> > parts
> > > are missing, I'd just be careful paying over the odds for broken things, $500 for
> a
> > > game a seller couldn't even get running properly was just absurd.
> > >
> > > probably the most famous example of 2 partial dumps making a complete one is with
> > the
> > > Moon War prototype in MAME, where the sound board was first dumped (and seemed
> > quite
> > > mysterious, it contained speech that seemed to be for Moon War, but no version of
> > > Moon War used that hardware) the actual game board turned up a few years later,
> > > without the sound board, and was dumped, giving us a complete set. Maybe not a
> case
> > > of bad roms, but a case of why dumping what you have is important.
> >
> > Which is also why it's even more critical to decide on what to do about the
> Laserdisc
> > games still not in Mame.
>
> I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Laserdiscs, or how the conversation is
> even remotely relevant to that subject.
The point I was making is that the longer those don't get dumped and supported by Mame, the greater the chance they are lost forever. It was like what you said about why dumping what you have is important.
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Master O]
#361785 - 12/26/16 03:18 AM
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> > > > > > but I honestly wouldn't get your hopes up too high, my gut feeling is that
> > > > > something
> > > > > > is missing, and at best we'll get a partially working game.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sadly I know that's a very, very real possibility, I also get major bad vibes
> > > come
> > > > > from that empty socket.
> > > > >
> > > > > Who knows, maybe someday that missing EPROM will turn up in another board? We
> > can
> > > > > only do what we can and hope.
> > > > >
> > > > > There's another game I dumped too that I think is an undumped version of
> Super
> > > > Tank,
> > > > > but that ended up have a bad EPROM, which it's why it's important to dump as
> > many
> > > > of
> > > > > these games while we still can.
> > > > >
> > > > > On the bright side Eeekk! is now safe, I'm looking forward to trying it! I've
> > got
> > > a
> > > > > Street Heat daughter board and I wonder if I'll be able to convert it?
> > > >
> > > > yeah, it happens, it's always worth submitting the dumps even if one is bad or
> > > parts
> > > > are missing, I'd just be careful paying over the odds for broken things, $500
> for
> > a
> > > > game a seller couldn't even get running properly was just absurd.
> > > >
> > > > probably the most famous example of 2 partial dumps making a complete one is
> with
> > > the
> > > > Moon War prototype in MAME, where the sound board was first dumped (and seemed
> > > quite
> > > > mysterious, it contained speech that seemed to be for Moon War, but no version
> of
> > > > Moon War used that hardware) the actual game board turned up a few years later,
> > > > without the sound board, and was dumped, giving us a complete set. Maybe not a
> > case
> > > > of bad roms, but a case of why dumping what you have is important.
> > >
> > > Which is also why it's even more critical to decide on what to do about the
> > Laserdisc
> > > games still not in Mame.
> >
> > I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Laserdiscs, or how the conversation is
> > even remotely relevant to that subject.
>
> The point I was making is that the longer those don't get dumped and supported by
> Mame, the greater the chance they are lost forever. It was like what you said about
> why dumping what you have is important.
In case folks don't understand why this is an issue, laserdiscs tend to rot. The materials go bad if not stored properly - and even if they are, they'll still waste away.
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Foxhack]
#361787 - 12/26/16 04:00 AM
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A lot of the laser disc games are supported by Daphne, so they've been already been dumped, I think most of those that aren't just haven't been found yet.
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| Foxhack |
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Tornadoboy]
#361790 - 12/26/16 05:06 AM
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> A lot of the laser disc games are supported by Daphne, so they've been already been
> dumped, I think most of those that aren't just haven't been found yet.
You're mistaken - Daphne uses MPEG recordings of the Laserdisc video. They're not dumped by MAME standards, in CHD format. 
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: Haze]
#361796 - 12/26/16 12:36 PM
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> I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Laserdiscs, or how the conversation is
> even remotely relevant to that subject.
You're just now realizing that Master O is a terrible poster and has the technical insight of a box of dog shit?
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Re: DU: Victory
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#361797 - 12/26/16 12:45 PM
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> > I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Laserdiscs, or how the conversation is
> > even remotely relevant to that subject.
>
> You're just now realizing that Master O is a terrible poster and has the technical
> insight of a box of dog shit?
no, I realised that a long time ago, and was just trying to be as polite as possible in keeping the conversation on-topic which obviously I failed to do. Thread hijacking sucks.
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