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'Battle Garegga and Dangun Feveron making a completely unexpected comeback
#358362 - 09/06/16 04:00 PM
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Re: 'Battle Garegga and Dangun Feveron making a completely unexpected comeback
[Re: Smitdogg]
#358363 - 09/06/16 04:43 PM
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> http://www.famitsu.com/news/201609/06114656.html
>
> New "2016" versions being developed by M2.
Interesting to see.
Modern hardware is terrible for shooters tho, there seems to be unavoidable lag in every single component unless you shop specifically to avoid it. Even TVs with 'Game Modes' aren't perfect.
Further shows emulation must have zero negative effect on the actual money they take from these things tho or they wouldn't be bothering, if anything I guess it's free promotion because people play the emulated games they want to play the remixed versions with all the extra bells and whistles (competitive leaderboards etc.)
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Re: 'Battle Garegga and Dangun Feveron making a completely unexpected comeback
[Re: Haze]
#358365 - 09/06/16 04:50 PM
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Personally the only place I can play Cave shooters seriously is the pcb on a supergun with arcade controls and a crt tv so there's no perceived lag whatsoever. That or an old arcade cab of course. Input lag ruins nailbiter shooters.
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Re: 'Battle Garegga and Dangun Feveron making a completely unexpected comeback
[Re: Smitdogg]
#358366 - 09/06/16 04:58 PM
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> Personally the only place I can play Cave shooters seriously is the pcb on a supergun
> with arcade controls and a crt tv so there's no perceived lag whatsoever. That or an
> old arcade cab of course. Input lag ruins nailbiter shooters.
It's interesting tho, it's likely to create a generation of gamers who just accept the lag.
I've noticed it with the streaming services, there's so much lag I can't play some of the games at all, but people new to it seem to just cope with it, because they've never seen anything else.
I ended up selling my copy of Ketsui on the PS3, because while it was a solid port there was just too much input lag for me to enjoy it, even with everything apparently set to the optimal settings. I'm going to assume it was the TV, but could just be the system in general.
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Re: 'Battle Garegga and Dangun Feveron making a completely unexpected comeback
[Re: Haze]
#358368 - 09/06/16 05:30 PM
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If the lag from using the wiimote like a steering wheel for mario kart was accepted anything is possible for millennials.
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Re: 'Battle Garegga and Dangun Feveron making a completely unexpected comeback
[Re: Haze]
#358372 - 09/06/16 08:59 PM
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> > Personally the only place I can play Cave shooters seriously is the pcb on a
> supergun
> > with arcade controls and a crt tv so there's no perceived lag whatsoever. That or
> an
> > old arcade cab of course. Input lag ruins nailbiter shooters.
Exactly and if it comes to MAME emulation, GroovyMAME and a CRT is the best you can have regarding input-lag. Thankfully Calamity joined the team, so i have hopes, that one day, official MAME will be the only thing anyone needs.
> It's interesting tho, it's likely to create a generation of gamers who just accept
> the lag.
>
> I've noticed it with the streaming services, there's so much lag I can't play some of
> the games at all, but people new to it seem to just cope with it, because they've
> never seen anything else.
>
> I ended up selling my copy of Ketsui on the PS3, because while it was a solid port
> there was just too much input lag for me to enjoy it, even with everything apparently
> set to the optimal settings. I'm going to assume it was the TV, but could just be the
> system in general.
The marketing industry fooled us very well with LCD/LED monitors. It just took nearly two decades, until we have such things like G-Sync/Free-Sync... doh  .
Also consider sound generation, DirectX is so bad and even X-audio is only slightly better, comparing to ASIO, both are miles away (2 frames at least).
I hope the Port audio stuff will make some progress, as this is the only alternative that would come close or be equal to ASIO. This would vastly decrease lag, created by emulation.
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Re: 'Battle Garegga and Dangun Feveron making a completely unexpected comeback
[Re: Haze]
#358374 - 09/06/16 10:19 PM
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I like byuus list of latency issues in emulation.
http://byuu.org/articles/latency/
About the only thing he misses is the hdmi encode/decode. Or it is implied in there somewhere. I hear rumors that some companies want to add usb-c into the mix on top of hdmi.
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Re: 'Battle Garegga and Dangun Feveron making a completely unexpected comeback
[Re: lharms]
#358381 - 09/07/16 12:41 AM
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Basically is the article well written, but the numbers and values seems a little wrong to me, at least the ones for the sound:
Quote:
Accomplishing this means that the OS holds audio buffers for each application, and mixes samples from all of the applications into a final stream to output to speakers or headphones. The output queue while speaking to hardware also needs some buffering of its own to maintain exact sample rates.
Generally, this can end up being anywhere from 10ms to 40ms of latency.
Again, this is a latency source that is avoidable, but only in limited cases. Currently, I'm only aware of WASAPI exclusive mode. A Windows-only technology with terrible driver support. So bad that I've yet to find two systems that act similarly when following the official API.
It's rare to see a program support this, and it's even rarer for it to work all that well.
From my own experience, i can say that X-audio (currently the fastest, what MAME can offer and only under Windows 10) has approx. 45ms. and DirectX has about 110ms. WASAPI or ASIO has a max. of 4ms. Thats why i wrote before, you earn 2 frames at least.
What i dont like, is the conclusion at the end: "Realizing Our Own Limitations". That stuff seems to negate the whole article a bit. The difference with GroovyMAME+ASIO+CRT vs. official MAME+LCD regarding lag, is like day and night. You will see AND hear the difference instantly, that is a promise and of course you will *feel* it too. Especially on shmups+beatemups.
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Re: 'Battle Garegga and Dangun Feveron making a completely unexpected comeback
[Re: Smitdogg]
#358424 - 09/07/16 09:29 PM
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Congrats to the creators of this 2 games. I hope they sell well! 
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