|
i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
#357203 - 08/01/16 02:05 PM
|
|
|
Damn 
|
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: DiodeDude]
#357206 - 08/01/16 04:20 PM
|
|
|
Don't worry, even my 4690K @ 4.5Ghz has slowdowns with that game.
Unfortunately a while back the STV board driver was messed with by the devs that caused a BIG slowdown in performance.
If you want to play Radiant Silvergun, use the Saturn Emulator SSF, It can boot up in STV arcade mode and use the MAME rom dump by holding down a keyboard combination, I can't remember which, so check the documentation that comes with the Emulator.
SSF is much faster and more accurate than MAME and your i5 6500 will run it at a solid 60fps with ease.
|
|
|
| R. Belmont |
|
Cuckoo for IGAvania
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 9716
|
|
Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: DiodeDude]
#357209 - 08/01/16 05:03 PM
|
|
|
> Damn
There's a reason MAMEdev is very on-point with recommending i7, not i5.
An i7-6700K will run pretty much everything flat-out. You take your chances with lesser systems.
|
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#357211 - 08/01/16 06:30 PM
|
|
|
I really wanted an i7, but $300+ for just the CPU was just too much. I thought an i5 was just an i7 without the hyper threading anyway?
|
|
|
|
I'll check it out, thanks :)
[Re: Ziggy100]
#357222 - 08/01/16 10:20 PM
|
|
|
|
|
| Dullaron |
|
Diablo III - Dunard #1884
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 07/22/05
|
|
Posts: 6125
|
|
Loc: Fort Worth, Tx
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
|
Proof here. You have a better Intel chip than I do. Should be a little faster or what ever it gives on your computer.
Using this. bgfx_screen_chains crt-geom-deluxe Just in case anyone ask.
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
|
W11 Home 64-bit + Nobara OS / AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59 GHz / RAM 64 GB
|
|
|
Re: No slowdown here on my computer. At 100% most of time.
[Re: Dullaron]
#357236 - 08/02/16 03:31 AM
|
|
|
I hit 100%, but often see stuttering/framerate drops.
Full Specs:
ASRock z170m Extreme 4 MB
8GB DDR4 2133 Dual Channel
i5 6500 @ 3.2GHZ Turbos to 3.7
Radeon R7 240 2GB DDR3 (Carry over from old PC)
1TB Western Digital Blue 64MB cache HDD (Carry over)
Windows 10 Pro
I have a sneaking suspicion the gfx card is the source of the performance issue. Its getting swapped for an RX480 in a few months anyway.
For giggles, I ran 5 instances of Higan .99 with the following games:
TMNT Turtles in Time
Batman Returns
Star Fox
Contra 3
SMB 2 Yoshi's Island
All 5 instances ran simultaneously @ a solid 60fps, 100% CPU usage the whole time. No slowdown. Old Phenom II x4 struggled to run one of any SNES game in Higan @ 100%.
|
|
|
| Dullaron |
|
Diablo III - Dunard #1884
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 07/22/05
|
|
Posts: 6125
|
|
Loc: Fort Worth, Tx
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: No slowdown here on my computer. At 100% most of time.
[Re: DiodeDude]
#357239 - 08/02/16 06:06 AM
|
|
|
> I hit 100%, but often see stuttering/framerate drops.
>
> Full Specs:
>
> ASRock z170m Extreme 4 MB
> 8GB DDR4 2133 Dual Channel
> i5 6500 @ 3.2GHZ Turbos to 3.7
> Radeon R7 240 2GB DDR3 (Carry over from old PC)
> 1TB Western Digital Blue 64MB cache HDD (Carry over)
> Windows 10 Pro
>
> I have a sneaking suspicion the gfx card is the source of the performance issue. Its
> getting swapped for an RX480 in a few months anyway.
>
> For giggles, I ran 5 instances of Higan .99 with the following games:
>
> TMNT Turtles in Time
> Batman Returns
> Star Fox
> Contra 3
> SMB 2 Yoshi's Island
>
> All 5 instances ran simultaneously @ a solid 60fps, 100% CPU usage the whole time. No
> slowdown. Old Phenom II x4 struggled to run one of any SNES game in Higan @ 100%.
Is there any dust on the graphics card fan? If so then try to blow it off with a strong blower. Make sure hold the fan on the card while doing that.
Reading here. The graphics card should be good on the spec. http://ir.amd.com/mobile.view?c=74093&v=203&d=1&id=1862417 The one that you got almost 3 years old. Give another graphics card a try anyway to see it better than the one that you have.
Who know. That one you have might be getting hot.
|
W11 Home 64-bit + Nobara OS / AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59 GHz / RAM 64 GB
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#357242 - 08/02/16 12:24 PM
|
|
|
Quote:
There's a reason MAMEdev is very on-point with recommending i7, not i5.
An i7-6700K will run pretty much everything flat-out. You take your chances with
lesser systems.
Except an i7 will not help with the Mame STV driver as it is very poorly multithreaded, load is overwhelmingly on a single core, only occasionally making use of a second core, let alone 4 cores with hyperthreading.
|
|
|
|
Re: No slowdown here on my computer. At 100% most of time.
[Re: Dullaron]
#357244 - 08/02/16 03:52 PM
|
|
|
> Is there any dust on the graphics card fan? If so then try to blow it off with a
> strong blower. Make sure hold the fan on the card while doing that.
>
> Reading here. The graphics card should be good on the spec.
> http://ir.amd.com/mobile.view?c=74093&v=203&d=1&id=1862417 The one that
> you got almost 3 years old. Give another graphics card a try anyway to see it better
> than the one that you have.
>
> Who know. That one you have might be getting hot.
This build isn't a week old, so no dust. Gfx card has some age on it, but never gets very hot. I think it was about 30c last night after running rsgun for a bit. Running a Noctua u12s HSF on the cpu. It idles @ 16c and it was @ 28~30c last night running those 5 instances of Higan, cpu 100% pegged.
I know MAME isn't really GPU bound, but I was thinking the on-board DDR3 of the gfx card was bottlenecking performance somehow.
|
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: Ziggy100]
#357245 - 08/02/16 04:06 PM
|
|
|
> Except an i7 will not help with the Mame STV driver as it is very poorly
> multithreaded, load is overwhelmingly on a single core, only occasionally making use
> of a second core, let alone 4 cores with hyperthreading.
I'm not sure systems like STV/Saturn could be multi-threaded. As I've read here, the tight timings required for emulation make it impossible to farm out the load to other cores. Unless something has changed, MAME is still a very single-threaded application.
Guess I should've opted to get a faster i5. The price difference to go from 3.2 to 3.5 on up is ridiculous!
Hopefully AMD puts Intel in their place this year and prices come down.
|
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: DiodeDude]
#357246 - 08/02/16 04:46 PM
|
|
|
Quote:
Unless something has changed, MAME is still a very single-threaded
It all depends on the game, later 3D Namco titles (Ridge Racer) in Mame have very nice core loading over 3-4 cores and give a significant boost to performance.
|
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: DiodeDude]
#357247 - 08/02/16 05:09 PM
|
|
|
> > Except an i7 will not help with the Mame STV driver as it is very poorly
> > multithreaded, load is overwhelmingly on a single core, only occasionally making
> use
> > of a second core, let alone 4 cores with hyperthreading.
>
> I'm not sure systems like STV/Saturn could be multi-threaded. As I've read here, the
> tight timings required for emulation make it impossible to farm out the load to other
> cores. Unless something has changed, MAME is still a very single-threaded
> application.
>
> Guess I should've opted to get a faster i5. The price difference to go from 3.2 to
> 3.5 on up is ridiculous!
>
> Hopefully AMD puts Intel in their place this year and prices come down.
threading might not help much, even if you were to offload something like the VDP1 drawing to another core there are games that rely on draw timing, so you'd be syncing so often the benefit would be minimal.
the ST-V video rendering code in MAME /is/ terrible tho, it's badly designed code; rather than weeding out conditions outside of loops and precalculating ranges etc. there are tens of complex per-pixel checks, function calls etc. which absolutely kills it. A lot of the slowdowns you've seen came from attempts to add more functionality to the video code but it was poorly thought out.
It also requires heavy sync between the emulated CPUs etc. which even with the recompilers is never ideal, there are places in the code of some games where each CPU has to run close to step-by-step, and some nasty race conditions etc.
The system can also set up timers, and high frequency timers are another issue for MAME.
It certainly could be made to perform a lot better than it does, but quite a few things about the system are going to cause MAME issues regardless.
|
|
|
|
Re: No slowdown here on my computer. At 100% most of time.
[Re: DiodeDude]
#357248 - 08/02/16 05:15 PM
|
|
|
Unless you're running the shaders then even the onboard GFX on modern Intel chips is plenty enough for MAME (at least on Windows)
MAME doesn't really ask much of your card unless the shaders are turned on, the only reason it fails so hard on some older cards / onboard systems is because the drivers were utterly atrocious.
Maybe if you're trying to scale up to a 4k display you'd need something 'not terrible' but even then I'm not sure anything non-shader related MAME does would push it.
|
|
|
| R. Belmont |
|
Cuckoo for IGAvania
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/21/03
|
|
Posts: 9716
|
|
Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: DiodeDude]
#357251 - 08/02/16 06:33 PM
|
|
|
> I really wanted an i7, but $300+ for just the CPU was just too much. I thought an i5
> was just an i7 without the hyper threading anyway?
Depending on the specific model, an i7 will often have larger caches, which is a big deal for emulation (as is running your RAM at the fastest stable timings).
|
|
|
|
Re: No slowdown here on my computer. At 100% most of time.
[Re: Haze]
#357252 - 08/02/16 07:49 PM
|
|
|
HLSL and GLSL are both disabled and I only have a 1080p screen.
|
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#357253 - 08/02/16 08:56 PM
|
|
|
i7 6700 has 8MB of L3 and my i5 6500 has 6MB. They both have the same L2 cache.
|
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: DiodeDude]
#357263 - 08/02/16 11:19 PM
|
|
|
> > Except an i7 will not help with the Mame STV driver as it is very poorly
> > multithreaded, load is overwhelmingly on a single core, only occasionally making
> use
> > of a second core, let alone 4 cores with hyperthreading.
>
> I'm not sure systems like STV/Saturn could be multi-threaded. As I've read here, the
> tight timings required for emulation make it impossible to farm out the load to other
> cores. Unless something has changed, MAME is still a very single-threaded
> application.
>
> Guess I should've opted to get a faster i5. The price difference to go from 3.2 to
> 3.5 on up is ridiculous!
>
> Hopefully AMD puts Intel in their place this year and prices come down.
I just built a new pc too and I coughed up a little extra money for the i5 6600k. The clock speed boost over the non 'k' version is modest but I was able to click the "overclock for dummies" button in the bios and have it set itself to 4.4GHz with no work on my part.
When I have some time, I'll see how high it can go. But this is what you're really paying for for the more expensive processors now. The ability to overclock. The price increase of the higher end models doesn't look justified when you only look at the stock clocks of the cpus.
|
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: SoltanGris42]
#357270 - 08/02/16 11:53 PM
|
|
|
I think Intel is kinda playing the system a bit. If they didn't provide the absolute bare minimum HSF, they could probably sell you the CPU @ 4.4GHz stock. Instead they clock the CPU under its potential so you'll have something to toy with and to justify the price difference. K models don't even include a HSF, correct?
Can't really blame them. They haven't had any competition for almost a decade now. Same with Nvidia.
Overall, I'm very happy with the i5. The more I use it, the more I see how much of an improvement it is over my old Phenom II system. I'll be real damn happy once I replace the spinning rust with an SSD and get a Freesync capable card/monitor.
Really need to get a side job. PCs are a money pit.
|
|
|
| Dullaron |
|
Diablo III - Dunard #1884
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 07/22/05
|
|
Posts: 6125
|
|
Loc: Fort Worth, Tx
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: No slowdown here on my computer. At 100% most of time.
[Re: DiodeDude]
#357271 - 08/03/16 01:17 AM
|
|
|
> HLSL and GLSL are both disabled and I only have a 1080p screen.
Using the 1080p as well. HDMI ASUS with 60 refresh not 120 refresh. Screen refresh sucks. MAME doesn't have a problem with a 60 refresh so far on most games.
|
W11 Home 64-bit + Nobara OS / AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59 GHz / RAM 64 GB
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: Ziggy100]
#357276 - 08/03/16 04:00 AM
|
|
|
> Except an i7 will not help with the Mame STV driver as it is very poorly
> multithreaded, load is overwhelmingly on a single core, only occasionally making use
> of a second core, let alone 4 cores with hyperthreading.
My E5 Xeons have no trouble running the MAME STV driver. Weak CPU is weak, don't expect performance from an i5.
|
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: DiodeDude]
#357277 - 08/03/16 05:10 AM
|
|
|
I played rsgun all the way through the first boss and when I quit MAME showed:
Average Speed: 99.14%
My computer specs:
Motherboard: ASUS Z87M-PLUS LGA 1150 Intel Z87
CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 Haswell Dual-Core 3.2 GHz overclocked to 4.5GHz
Memory: 4G x 2 G.SKILL F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 7750
|
GroovyMAME support forum on BYOAC
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#357284 - 08/03/16 09:51 AM
|
|
|
> > I really wanted an i7, but $300+ for just the CPU was just too much. I thought an
> i5
> > was just an i7 without the hyper threading anyway?
>
> Depending on the specific model, an i7 will often have larger caches, which is a big
> deal for emulation (as is running your RAM at the fastest stable timings).
I've always wondered what effect the eDRAM in the Broadwell generation CPUs would effect MAME performance, I had planned to grab one and try it when they were released, but the i7-5775C was stupidly expensive at release, and quickly faded from view with the release of Skylake a few months later.
The Skylake implementation of eDRAM look like it could be even better for MAME, with it effectively acting as a RAM buffer, but all the Skylake models announced with eDRAM are designed for All-in-one systems, so are Multiplier locked and are BGA package not socketed.
eDRAM very much reminds me of the original Pentium Pro.
|
If all else fails, Burn the manual.
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: krick]
#357294 - 08/03/16 04:35 PM
|
|
|
I think the take away from your specs is that your CPU is running 1.3GHz faster than mine. I don't believe there is a significant IPC gain from Haswell to Skylake, so I'd say That I need to get somewhere close to 4GHz to reach a solid 100%.
Will have to check if my BIOS still supports OC'ing as Intel pushed manufacturers to kill OC'ing in non K CPUs. Even if it's possible, Intel may push a microcode update through Windows Update at some point and spoil the fun. Never ventured into OC'ing before, so new territory for me. Definitely have the thermal headroom to play with.
|
|
|
|
Re: i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
[Re: DiodeDude]
#357296 - 08/03/16 09:28 PM
|
|
|
> I think the take away from your specs is that your CPU is running 1.3GHz faster than
> mine. I don't believe there is a significant IPC gain from Haswell to Skylake, so I'd
> say That I need to get somewhere close to 4GHz to reach a solid 100%.
>
> Will have to check if my BIOS still supports OC'ing as Intel pushed manufacturers to
> kill OC'ing in non K CPUs. Even if it's possible, Intel may push a microcode update
> through Windows Update at some point and spoil the fun. Never ventured into OC'ing
> before, so new territory for me. Definitely have the thermal headroom to play with.
I haven't done it, but I think people have been downgrading to old bios for overclocking the non-k processors. I know for my mobo, the changelog for the bios doesn't show that any major issues were fixed so I wouldn't really have lost anything if I had to do that. Maybe you can do the same if necessary.
I'm sure you do have the thermal headroom. I did a night of f@h and a night of video encoding as well as compiling MAME and my processor doesn't go over 60c at 4.4GHz. But I have a pretty good air cooler too. Even so, if you're not aiming for that range or higher (and I'm not sure for the non-k processors will let you do) then you probably don't have much to worry about.
Good luck!
|
|
|
Index 
Threaded 
i5 6500 3.2GHz not enough for rsgun?
Reply
[Re: 
