| Big Karnak |
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Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
#324709 - 04/15/14 10:36 AM
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I'm going to be upgrading from Win XP to Win 8.1 by the end of the year. Are there any retro emulators that are not compatible with Windows 8.1? A2600/NES/SNES/GB/GBC/GBA/Genesis/TG-16. Are there any well known emulators from those systems that are not compatible with Win 8? I think ZSNES isn't compatible. What else?
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Big Karnak]
#324723 - 04/15/14 01:56 PM
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> I'm going to be upgrading from Win XP to Win 8.1 by the end of the year. Are there
> any retro emulators that are not compatible with Windows 8.1?
> A2600/NES/SNES/GB/GBC/GBA/Genesis/TG-16. Are there any well known emulators from
> those systems that are not compatible with Win 8? I think ZSNES isn't compatible.
> What else?
The only way is to try them, since no-one uses Windows 8.  [/trolling]
As for "retro", what does that cover? Old emulators like NESticle/NeoRAGE or simply emulators of retro systems?
If you're talking of 1990s/2000 era "retro" emulators, here's a few I used back when my PC was all of 1.2GHz - and a Celeron at that!
Viva Nonno, ZiNc/ePSXe/PCSX (retro would be PSEmu Pro/VGS/bleem!), Project64/1964 (or Mupen, Nemu64, or UltraHLE/SupraHLE if you really want retro), VisualBoyAdvance, MEKA, Kgen/Gens/Genecyst (the latter being the NESticle of the Genesis/MD emulators) might be worth a try, all being around the Win9x-XP transition era. I was more of a Snes9x person though, never used ZSNES back then...
If you're talking about modern emulators for "retro" consoles, just stick with MESS or possibly Nestopia, pSX, PCSX2 (probably not quite retro, considering the last of the stockpiled PS2 games only left the shelves at Target/Kmart this year)...
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Big Karnak]
#324744 - 04/15/14 07:39 PM
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> I'm going to be upgrading from Win XP to Win 8.1 by the end of the year. Are there
> any retro emulators that are not compatible with Windows 8.1?
> A2600/NES/SNES/GB/GBC/GBA/Genesis/TG-16. Are there any well known emulators from
> those systems that are not compatible with Win 8? I think ZSNES isn't compatible.
> What else?
The DOS version of ZSNES isn't compatible, but the Win32 version should be.
That said, nobody should be using ZSNES in 2014, there are far better options.
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: R. Belmont]
#324751 - 04/15/14 11:01 PM
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> The DOS version of ZSNES isn't compatible, but the Win32 version should be.
In my experience the 32 bit version of Windows 8 can run DOS apps as well as XP can, I haven't tried any on 8.1 & I tend to use the 64 bit version that doesn't support DOS apps.
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| Naoki |
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: ]
#324754 - 04/16/14 01:32 AM
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> > The DOS version of ZSNES isn't compatible, but the Win32 version should be.
>
> In my experience the 32 bit version of Windows 8 can run DOS apps as well as XP can,
> I haven't tried any on 8.1 & I tend to use the 64 bit version that doesn't support
> DOS apps.
The whole DOS support is really because in 64-bit mode you can only run 32 and 64-bit apps and in 32-bit mode you can run 16-bit apps with 32-bit apps. Windows 7 is believe is supposed to work as the DOS support is technically still there although it's not really worth using a 32-bit OS in a modern day for DOS stuff, you're better dual-booting or using a separate machine IMO.
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| Big Karnak |
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Part-time Lurker
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#324764 - 04/16/14 05:14 AM
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Quote:
As for "retro", what does that cover? Old emulators like NESticle/NeoRAGE or simply emulators of retro systems?
If you're talking of 1990s/2000 era "retro" emulators,
No, I meant retro video game consoles... like the ones I mentioned: A2600/NES/SNES/GB/GBC/GBA/Genesis/TG-16. I don't mean retro emulators like Nesticle. I meant retro video game consoles.
I am just concerned about Windows 8.1 compatibility with emulators like Fusion, Stella, Gens and it's derivatives, Snes9X and it's derivatives, VBA and it's derivatives, Nestopia, FCEUX, Nintendulator, VirtuaNES, Ootake, Magic Engine, bsnes, Gambatte, BGB, etc. Ya know, the good well known emulators. I don't care if some obscure emulator that only plays ten games is compatible.
Quote:
The DOS version of ZSNES isn't compatible, but the Win32 version should be.
That said, nobody should be using ZSNES in 2014, there are far better options.
Agreed, but I still like sometimes using it for nostalgic purposes... that old style DOS-like GUI.
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: Big Karnak]
#324765 - 04/16/14 05:30 AM
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Make sure that you pull the hard drive that have XP out first.
After that you install Win 8.1 onto a clean or new hard drive then put the hard drive that have XP back in. This way just in case one of those hard drive fail to boot or load least that you still have the other one that have it own boot up.
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| Big Karnak |
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: Dullaron]
#324766 - 04/16/14 05:32 AM
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Good Advice. But I'm going to be buying a completely new computer. (I should've been more specific)
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: Big Karnak]
#324767 - 04/16/14 05:35 AM
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> Good Advice. But I'm going to be buying a completely new computer. (I should've been
> more specific)
Good call. 
Don't have to put the hard drive that have XP back in. You can just save it into a safe place for back up use.
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| Big Karnak |
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: Dullaron]
#324768 - 04/16/14 05:41 AM
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My current PC, which is a Dell P4, 3.0 GHz HT, Win XP 32-bit has lasted me a decade and it's still running like a charm. And I never had to replace a single part. And I use it constantly, all the time, everyday for ten straight years. So I don't know why so many people hate on Dell. My computer is a warrior  . Oh and btw, it's still as fast as it was the day I bought it. I still can't believe it's been ten years. I bet new computers these days won't last that long. "They don't make'em like they used to." I think the 'secret' is to shut down the computer when you're finished using it and to make sure every few years you clean/blow out all the dust in the tower. Ya won't believe how much dust builds up in there.
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: Big Karnak]
#324769 - 04/16/14 06:06 AM
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> My current PC, which is a Dell P4, 3.0 GHz HT, Win XP 32-bit has lasted me a decade
> and it's still running like a charm. And I never had to replace a single part. And I
> use it constantly, all the time, everyday for ten straight years. So I don't know why
> so many people hate on Dell. My computer is a warrior . Oh and btw, it's still as
> fast as it was the day I bought it. I still can't believe it's been ten years. I bet
> new computers these days won't last that long. "They don't make'em like they used
> to." I think the 'secret' is to shut down the computer when you're finished using it
> and to make sure every few years you clean/blow out all the dust in the tower. Ya
> won't believe how much dust builds up in there.
My Sony never did died on me when I used to have it. I gave it away to my sister kids to use. I had it for years before the Intel Pen 4 came out. It had a Intel Pen 3, Nvidia 16mb card and low memories. I did got a Nvidia 64mb card and more memories that is about 512mb for the replacement. I did remember trying out MAME on it back in the day when it had a few games working.
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: Dullaron]
#324770 - 04/16/14 06:23 AM
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It would be quicker to create a VM out of the XP install, so you can utilise it from within 8.1 Virtual Box or VMware Player are good choices. As long as the XP install isn't huge..
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: Big Karnak]
#324773 - 04/16/14 07:11 AM
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Same with mine, an Acer 2.8GHz Celeron (Northwood) made in 2005, never bothered changing the CPU for a proper P4. However, this one has had a few minor upgrades since stock. Notably 256MB DDR1 became 1GB, 40GB IDE HDD gained a much larger friend (it's still the C: drive and has clocked up over 66000 hours), onboard SIS graphics was made redundant by a Radeon 9550 256MB. A few years ago, the power supply died so I had to swap that out as well (Teapo caps tend to do that, although somehow this one lasted 7 years). Not worth recapping a 200W unit though so it was scrapped for parts (a bridge rectifier and a few MOSFETs is worth the effort).
As for shutting down every night, this PC is still as fast as day one as well, yet it is only ever "shut down" when the power goes out! Myth debunked.
The best way to keep them fast is to not install junk like free screensavers and crippleware apps (all of which tend to be distributed in seedy, proprietary, EXE-based installers which may or may not install even more junk depending on whether it lets you opt-out or not, or they simply install them anyway). If you're a point-and-click casual user, buy a Mac or an iPad instead, no Win32 malware will dare invade your machine!
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Naoki]
#324775 - 04/16/14 07:46 AM
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> Windows 7 is believe is supposed to work as the DOS support is technically still
> there although it's not really worth using a 32-bit OS in a modern day for DOS
> stuff, you're better dual-booting or using a separate machine IMO.
Yeah, I personally only ever run 32bit version of vista/7/8 on old machines that don't support 64 bit. But if I had a piece of hardware that only has 32bit drivers then I may reconsider.
The only problem with DOS software is that they did arbitrarily limit you to the amount of ram a DOS application could allocate for a while, but I think Microsoft eventually limited it.
http://www.trnicely.net/misc/vista.html
Edited by smf (04/16/14 07:48 AM)
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| Naoki |
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: Big Karnak]
#324782 - 04/16/14 02:31 PM
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> My current PC, which is a Dell P4, 3.0 GHz HT, Win XP 32-bit has lasted me a decade
> and it's still running like a charm. And I never had to replace a single part. And I
> use it constantly, all the time, everyday for ten straight years. So I don't know why
> so many people hate on Dell. My computer is a warrior . Oh and btw, it's still as
> fast as it was the day I bought it. I still can't believe it's been ten years. I bet
> new computers these days won't last that long. "They don't make'em like they used
> to." I think the 'secret' is to shut down the computer when you're finished using it
> and to make sure every few years you clean/blow out all the dust in the tower. Ya
> won't believe how much dust builds up in there.
At my work we recommend people buy Dell because they to us seem like brilliant machines. Rarely does one fail that isn't by user fault or someone else's fault (like AMD/NVidia chips overheating and cracking the BGA joints). Very few times has there been a board failure.
My PCs are pretty good now I take more care of them. I had no will to upgrade my old Gigabyte board because it worked perfect for me and had no reason to upgrade... Then the crappy Xenta PSU just died out of no where when I was going to reinstall windows and killed the board with it. After diagnosis and much swearing at the thing (and maybe destructive revenge) I decided to buy the best board for my current chip (went for a z77 board in the end) and go from there. I still haven't felt the need to upgrade anything because it works perfect for what I need although if I had the choice I would go for an i3/5 chip and maybe 8gB of ram
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On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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| Naoki |
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Big Karnak]
#324783 - 04/16/14 02:32 PM
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> As for "retro", what does that cover? Old emulators like NESticle/NeoRAGE or simply
> emulators of retro systems?
>
> If you're talking of 1990s/2000 era "retro" emulators,
> No, I meant retro video game consoles... like the ones I mentioned:
> A2600/NES/SNES/GB/GBC/GBA/Genesis/TG-16. I don't mean retro emulators like Nesticle.
> I meant retro video game consoles.
>
> I am just concerned about Windows 8.1 compatibility with emulators like Fusion,
> Stella, Gens and it's derivatives, Snes9X and it's derivatives, VBA and it's
> derivatives, Nestopia, FCEUX, Nintendulator, VirtuaNES, Ootake, Magic Engine, bsnes,
> Gambatte, BGB, etc. Ya know, the good well known emulators. I don't care if some
> obscure emulator that only plays ten games is compatible.
>
> The DOS version of ZSNES isn't compatible, but the Win32 version should be.
>
> That said, nobody should be using ZSNES in 2014, there are far better options.
> Agreed, but I still like sometimes using it for nostalgic purposes... that old style
> DOS-like GUI.
Stuff like Fusion still works in Win 7 64-Bit, no reason it shouldn't in 8.1
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On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
By gods I've found it!
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Naoki]
#324785 - 04/16/14 04:43 PM
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Seems to me few if any people here have actually thoroughly used Windows 8, preferring to make generalised assumptions.
Let me put my five cents in regarding Kega Fusion: I have a laptop that came with Win8 preinstalled. Kega Fusion ran the same except in fullscreen mode it ran at 32 FPS, regardless of vsync settings on Intel GUI or the emulator itself. A fix exists, but it's certainly not one you would've figured out yourself. Whether you're running 8 or 8.1 is irrelevant for these kinds of issues of which I've seen a fair few with older programs etc. While not an emulator Total Annihilation for instance will not run at all without its community patch and even then is a compromise vs just having Windows 7 installed instead.
Anyway, Kega is not the most accurate emulator anymore, although it certainly works for the 95% of games. Running Genesis Plus GX via RetroArch will allow you to run non-butchered versions of Titan Overdrive among other things flawlessly once you get used to the UI.
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: Naoki]
#324787 - 04/16/14 04:48 PM
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> At my work we recommend people buy Dell because they to us seem like brilliant
> machines. Rarely does one fail that isn't by user fault or someone else's fault (like
> AMD/NVidia chips overheating and cracking the BGA joints). Very few times has there
> been a board failure.
Because they are brilliant machines, and the customer support is equally brilliant if you invest in a decent warranty plan.
I once had a Dell laptop. It worked great for about two years, then the graphics card died. The support people were courteous and offered to send a tech out to install the new graphics card, but were happy to let me install it on my own.
I installed it, and about a year later the card died in exactly the same way. I figured at this point that there was something faulty with the motherboard that was killing the GPU. They agreed, and mentioned that given that the same issue has happened twice now, my system qualified for full system replacement.
They ended up sending me a brand new laptop with roughly the same specs, though it had about twice the hard drive space and an extra two gigs of RAM. They shipped me a box with pre-paid postage to ship the old laptop back, and that was the last I had to hear of it.
The new laptop ended up last upwards of 3+ years. The new laptop was shipped out in early 2009, and it kept slogging along at least until early 2012 when I moved to a different state. At that point the screen's connection had gone bad so it could only be run via an external monitor, and I had barfed beer on the keyboard about six months prior so it needed an external keyboard because the 'A' key was killed as a result, so I had left it to one of my roommates as a Skype box. As far as I know, it's still going to this day.
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: BPzeBanshee]
#324788 - 04/16/14 04:51 PM
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> Let me put my five cents in regarding Kega Fusion: I have a laptop that came with
> Win8 preinstalled. Kega Fusion ran the same except in fullscreen mode it ran at 32
> FPS, regardless of vsync settings on Intel GUI or the emulator itself.
It's your own damn fault if you want to run a decrepit-ass, inaccurate emulator on an OS that came out over a decade after the emulator itself did. Get with the program and join the 21st century.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: BPzeBanshee]
#324797 - 04/16/14 08:45 PM
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> Anyway, Kega is not the most accurate emulator anymore, although it certainly works
> for the 95% of games. Running Genesis Plus GX via RetroArch will allow you to run
> non-butchered versions of Titan Overdrive among other things flawlessly once you get
> used to the UI.
Or you can watch Titan Overdrive on YouTube given it's not interactive and play the 95% of games on MESS/UME
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: Big Karnak]
#324799 - 04/16/14 08:51 PM
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The major thing with Dell desktops is the not-quite-standard nature of their chassis designs, which can make upgrading the video card or a harddisk a surprising adventure. But if you don't do that sort of thing they're certainly very good for the most part.
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| RATMNL |
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Patron Saint of the Totally F*cked
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: BPzeBanshee]
#324801 - 04/16/14 11:17 PM
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> Anyway, Kega is not the most accurate emulator anymore, although it certainly works
> for the 95% of games. Running Genesis Plus GX via RetroArch will allow you to run
> non-butchered versions of Titan Overdrive among other things flawlessly once you get
> used to the UI.
Besides RetroArch, any other ideas for Master System?
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"Those voices in his head might not be real, but they have really good ideas!"
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| Foxhack |
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Furry guy
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Big Karnak]
#324803 - 04/17/14 12:08 AM
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> I'm going to be upgrading from Win XP to Win 8.1 by the end of the year. Are there
> any retro emulators that are not compatible with Windows 8.1?
> A2600/NES/SNES/GB/GBC/GBA/Genesis/TG-16. Are there any well known emulators from
> those systems that are not compatible with Win 8? I think ZSNES isn't compatible.
> What else?
There's only two rules when using old software on Windows 7 or 8:
1: Don't install anything to C:\Program Files\
2: If the emulator is 16-bit and you're running a 64-bit version of the OS, the program won't run.
I've had NO issues getting any of my older emulators to work on Windows 7 32-bit, but I know that once I migrate to the 64-bit version, I'll lose access to many of my old hacking tools and emulators. Which is sad, but fine. There are much better emulators than those older ones out there.
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| Foxhack |
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: RW-Column]
#324804 - 04/17/14 12:15 AM
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> It would be quicker to create a VM out of the XP install, so you can utilise it from
> within 8.1 Virtual Box or VMware Player are good choices. As long as the XP install
> isn't huge..
7 Pro included a free Windows XP Pro license and install to be used on VirtualPC (included in the download). There's tutorials that let you use that XP install on VMWare.
Unfortunately, Microsoft removed the feature from Windows 8. :\
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: Foxhack]
#324807 - 04/17/14 12:50 AM
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> 7 Pro included a free Windows XP Pro license and install to be used on VirtualPC
> (included in the download). There's tutorials that let you use that XP install on
> VMWare.
>
> Unfortunately, Microsoft removed the feature from Windows 8. :\
I used to prefer Virtual PC, but Oracle VirtualBox is a good choice too. It supports snapshots, VHD format (reads Virtual PC images), hardware acceleration and it's an excellent choice if you have a Virtualization Technology capable CPU.
I own a Windows 7 x64, i5-2300 CPU with a cheap ATI Videocard. If I can run things like American McGee Alice, Age of Mythology, Command and Conquer Red Alert and The Curse of Monkey Island under an XP Virtual Machine. I think any emulator will without problems. Probably not under full screen mode.
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| Foxhack |
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: BIOS-D]
#324808 - 04/17/14 01:20 AM
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> > 7 Pro included a free Windows XP Pro license and install to be used on VirtualPC
> > (included in the download). There's tutorials that let you use that XP install on
> > VMWare.
> >
> > Unfortunately, Microsoft removed the feature from Windows 8. :\
>
> I used to prefer Virtual PC, but Oracle VirtualBox is a good choice too. It supports
> snapshots, VHD format (reads Virtual PC images), hardware acceleration and it's an
> excellent choice if you have a Virtualization Technology capable CPU.
>
> I own a Windows 7 x64, i5-2300 CPU with a cheap ATI Videocard. If I can run things
> like American McGee Alice, Age of Mythology, Command and Conquer Red Alert and The
> Curse of Monkey Island under an XP Virtual Machine. I think any emulator will without
> problems. Probably not under full screen mode.
Alice works perfectly on Windows 7 (you only need to tweak the resolution); Mythology and Red Alert should work fine too. I -think- Escape from Monkey Island is just slightly too old (and 16-bit) to work on 7 64-bits. 
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#324809 - 04/17/14 01:30 AM
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> Because they are brilliant machines, and the customer support is equally brilliant if
> you invest in a decent warranty plan.
They do occasionally come up with a lemon, I had one that had a separate video card and the way the two boards connected meant that there was a lot of mechanical stress on it.
I put in a second hand motherboard & graphics card from ebay in there and it doesn't get moved much now and is still going, it must be nearly ten years old now.
The dell I had before that used to cook hard drives and the tv out on most of them blew after plugging them in a couple of times. The first indestructible dell laptop I had was an inspiron 8600. The latitude d820 I had after that blew it's graphics card, although the monitor was a bit rubbish.
My next was a xps 1530, which is fine except it had one of the NVidia chips that died.
I would still recommend dells, but if you're spending a lot of money then I would always pay for on site warranty and if it's a laptop then also accidental damage.
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Foxhack]
#324810 - 04/17/14 01:45 AM
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> 1: Don't install anything to C:\Program Files\
That's more of a guideline. Old software (even 32bit software) tends to write stuff to the directory it's running in. If an application tries to write a file to program files and it doesn't have permission then windows will pretend that it does by creating shadow files. Getting your head around different files appearing depending on who you login in as can get tricky. But not everything does it and if you run with UAC disabled then it won't be a problem (I always have UAC enabled though and recommend it).
Edited by smf (04/17/14 01:46 AM)
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: Foxhack]
#324811 - 04/17/14 02:03 AM
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> Alice works perfectly on Windows 7 (you only need to tweak the resolution); Mythology
> and Red Alert should work fine too. I -think- Escape from Monkey Island is just
> slightly too old (and 16-bit) to work on 7 64-bits.
I know, but that's not the point. The point is I can run older hardware accelerated software under a Virtual Machine with a X64 OS. Something you can't do on Virtual PC. Curse of Monkey Island requires Windows 95 as a minimum.
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Oops, point ^ my head. Sorry. *nt*
[Re: BIOS-D]
#324813 - 04/17/14 03:47 AM
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> > Alice works perfectly on Windows 7 (you only need to tweak the resolution);
> Mythology
> > and Red Alert should work fine too. I -think- Escape from Monkey Island is just
> > slightly too old (and 16-bit) to work on 7 64-bits.
>
> I know, but that's not the point. The point is I can run older hardware accelerated
> software under a Virtual Machine with a X64 OS. Something you can't do on Virtual PC.
> Curse of Monkey Island requires Windows 95 as a minimum.
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: ]
#324818 - 04/17/14 05:46 AM
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But not everything does it and if you run with
> UAC disabled then it won't be a problem (I always have UAC enabled though and
> recommend it).
I seem to recall a couple/few years ago everyone swearing UAC was the pinnacle of evil........
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Traso]
#324820 - 04/17/14 05:48 AM
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> I seem to recall a couple/few years ago everyone swearing UAC was the pinnacle of
> evil........
It was more annoying on Windows Vista, there were more prompts. Windows 7 took it down a notch.
S
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: ]
#324832 - 04/17/14 10:05 AM
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> > Because they are brilliant machines, and the customer support is equally brilliant
> if
> > you invest in a decent warranty plan.
>
> They do occasionally come up with a lemon, I had one that had a separate video card
> and the way the two boards connected meant that there was a lot of mechanical stress
> on it.
> I put in a second hand motherboard & graphics card from ebay in there and it doesn't
> get moved much now and is still going, it must be nearly ten years old now.
>
> The dell I had before that used to cook hard drives and the tv out on most of them
> blew after plugging them in a couple of times. The first indestructible dell laptop I
> had was an inspiron 8600. The latitude d820 I had after that blew it's graphics card,
> although the monitor was a bit rubbish.
>
> My next was a xps 1530, which is fine except it had one of the NVidia chips that
> died.
>
> I would still recommend dells, but if you're spending a lot of money then I would
> always pay for on site warranty and if it's a laptop then also accidental damage.
Probably the only lemons out there are SFF PCs, there's no way you will get more than 2-3 years out of a PC when the entire case is 50°C with fans running at full speed - once that fan starts making grinding noises and drops to 1/3 speed, swap it out right away.
Also, it doesn't help when some companies cheap out on power supplies and put low quality caps in the power supply (CapXon caps don't even belong in a fire, they'd likely cause the fire to fail too!). Bestec power supplies were probably the biggest killers of HP products in the last decade - when they failed (notably the ATX-250-12E model), they used to send 12V through the 5VSB while the PC was "off" and fry everything!
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| Naoki |
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Re: Keep XP but install Win 8.1 onto another hard drive.
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#324839 - 04/17/14 01:08 PM
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> > > Because they are brilliant machines, and the customer support is equally
> brilliant
> > if
> > > you invest in a decent warranty plan.
> >
> > They do occasionally come up with a lemon, I had one that had a separate video card
> > and the way the two boards connected meant that there was a lot of mechanical
> stress
> > on it.
> > I put in a second hand motherboard & graphics card from ebay in there and it
> doesn't
> > get moved much now and is still going, it must be nearly ten years old now.
> >
> > The dell I had before that used to cook hard drives and the tv out on most of them
> > blew after plugging them in a couple of times. The first indestructible dell laptop
> I
> > had was an inspiron 8600. The latitude d820 I had after that blew it's graphics
> card,
> > although the monitor was a bit rubbish.
> >
> > My next was a xps 1530, which is fine except it had one of the NVidia chips that
> > died.
> >
> > I would still recommend dells, but if you're spending a lot of money then I would
> > always pay for on site warranty and if it's a laptop then also accidental damage.
>
> Probably the only lemons out there are SFF PCs, there's no way you will get more than
> 2-3 years out of a PC when the entire case is 50°C with fans running at full speed -
> once that fan starts making grinding noises and drops to 1/3 speed, swap it out right
> away.
>
> Also, it doesn't help when some companies cheap out on power supplies and put low
> quality caps in the power supply (CapXon caps don't even belong in a fire, they'd
> likely cause the fire to fail too!). Bestec power supplies were probably the biggest
> killers of HP products in the last decade - when they failed (notably the ATX-250-12E
> model), they used to send 12V through the 5VSB while the PC was "off" and fry
> everything!
Ouch. Kinda like the early model 3 PSUs then?
I was recently working on an SFF HP. The PSU wasn't supplying any power other than 5VSB, short the power pin and it'd try to but the PSU would sometimes click and never give any volts above 1v and dropping. It was making an awful squealing noise when turned on so I didn't bother repairing it and put in a new PSU, works fine now.
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| Naoki |
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: BPzeBanshee]
#324841 - 04/17/14 01:15 PM
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> Seems to me few if any people here have actually thoroughly used Windows 8,
> preferring to make generalised assumptions.
>
> Let me put my five cents in regarding Kega Fusion: I have a laptop that came with
> Win8 preinstalled. Kega Fusion ran the same except in fullscreen mode it ran at 32
> FPS, regardless of vsync settings on Intel GUI or the emulator itself. A fix exists,
> but it's certainly not one you would've figured out yourself. Whether you're running
> 8 or 8.1 is irrelevant for these kinds of issues of which I've seen a fair few with
> older programs etc. While not an emulator Total Annihilation for instance will not
> run at all without its community patch and even then is a compromise vs just having
> Windows 7 installed instead.
>
> Anyway, Kega is not the most accurate emulator anymore, although it certainly works
> for the 95% of games. Running Genesis Plus GX via RetroArch will allow you to run
> non-butchered versions of Titan Overdrive among other things flawlessly once you get
> used to the UI.
I have used Windows 8 and although there are features I like such as the .iso mounting support, Microsoft account login, automatic window colour based on background image, different background images on different monitors and many others, I hate the new UI look (aero plz), I hate the tiles, I hate how mouse+keyboard users are basically being told to deal with this clearly touchscreen based OS. Sure, I could *probably* get used to it, doesn't mean I want nor have to.
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| Big Karnak |
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Naoki]
#324844 - 04/17/14 03:16 PM
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I don't like tiles either. I hate how they made Windows 8 look like a smart phone/tablet. It's like they dumb downed the OS, oversimplifying it to accommodate morons who don't know how to work a computer. I dread having to get Win 8.1, but I feel like I have no other choice because I don't want to get an older version/technology, Win 7, even though I like Win 7.
Does Microsoft plan on sticking with the tile look of Win 8 when they release the next version of windows, Win 9 or whatever it will be called? Idk why there hasn't been such an outcry, more than there already is, that basically forces Microsoft to go back to the Win 7/XP style.
You guys mentioned about having to use virtual machines. Idk why Microsoft couldn't have all that built into the OS where the user can use any XP and up program. Well, that feature rarely worked in XP either, the "Run this program in compatibility mode = Windows 95". Anytime I ever tried using that it never worked.
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| Naoki |
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Big Karnak]
#324847 - 04/17/14 05:23 PM
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> I don't like tiles either. I hate how they made Windows 8 look like a smart
> phone/tablet. It's like they dumb downed the OS, oversimplifying it to accommodate
> morons who don't know how to work a computer. I dread having to get Win 8.1, but I
> feel like I have no other choice because I don't want to get an older
> version/technology, Win 7, even though I like Win 7.
>
> Does Microsoft plan on sticking with the tile look of Win 8 when they release the
> next version of windows, Win 9 or whatever it will be called? Idk why there hasn't
> been such an outcry, more than there already is, that basically forces Microsoft to
> go back to the Win 7/XP style.
>
> You guys mentioned about having to use virtual machines. Idk why Microsoft couldn't
> have all that built into the OS where the user can use any XP and up program. Well,
> that feature rarely worked in XP either, the "Run this program in compatibility mode
> = Windows 95". Anytime I ever tried using that it never worked.
I've tried about 50 times and it worked about 3 times, but that's just because the program stopped saying Windows 7 wasn't supported.
I find it pointless to use windows 8 on any machine that doesn't have a touch screen but even then, the annoying quirks are still there. I find it ridiculous that Microsoft didn't add in a big IF.
Code:
if(system.input != touchscreen){
EnableTiles(0);
}else{
EnableTiles(1);
}
Edited by Naoki (04/17/14 05:24 PM)
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Traso]
#324859 - 04/17/14 09:20 PM
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> I seem to recall a couple/few years ago everyone swearing UAC was the pinnacle of
> evil........
And you listened to them?
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Naoki]
#324861 - 04/17/14 09:56 PM
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> > I don't like tiles either. I hate how they made Windows 8 look like a smart
> > phone/tablet. It's like they dumb downed the OS, oversimplifying it to accommodate
> > morons who don't know how to work a computer. I dread having to get Win 8.1, but I
> > feel like I have no other choice because I don't want to get an older
> > version/technology, Win 7, even though I like Win 7.
> >
> > Does Microsoft plan on sticking with the tile look of Win 8 when they release the
> > next version of windows, Win 9 or whatever it will be called? Idk why there hasn't
> > been such an outcry, more than there already is, that basically forces Microsoft to
> > go back to the Win 7/XP style.
> >
> > You guys mentioned about having to use virtual machines. Idk why Microsoft couldn't
> > have all that built into the OS where the user can use any XP and up program. Well,
> > that feature rarely worked in XP either, the "Run this program in compatibility
> mode
> > = Windows 95". Anytime I ever tried using that it never worked.
>
> I've tried about 50 times and it worked about 3 times, but that's just because the
> program stopped saying Windows 7 wasn't supported.
>
> I find it pointless to use windows 8 on any machine that doesn't have a touch screen
> but even then, the annoying quirks are still there. I find it ridiculous that
> Microsoft didn't add in a big IF.
> if(system.input != touchscreen){
> EnableTiles(0);
> }else{
> EnableTiles(1);
> }
This is Microsoft we're talking about, Naoki. Anything that would actually be good for the end users is something they will never implement.
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Master O]
#324864 - 04/17/14 11:24 PM
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> This is Microsoft we're talking about, Naoki. Anything that would actually be good
> for the end users is something they will never implement.
Rubbish.
I have been using windows 8 since it was released and I don't use the start screen ever.
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Big Karnak]
#324878 - 04/18/14 08:12 AM
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> I don't like tiles either. I hate how they made Windows 8 look like a smart
> phone/tablet. It's like they dumb downed the OS, oversimplifying it to accommodate
> morons who don't know how to work a computer. I dread having to get Win 8.1, but I
> feel like I have no other choice because I don't want to get an older
> version/technology, Win 7, even though I like Win 7.
>
> Does Microsoft plan on sticking with the tile look of Win 8 when they release the
> next version of windows, Win 9 or whatever it will be called? Idk why there hasn't
> been such an outcry, more than there already is, that basically forces Microsoft to
> go back to the Win 7/XP style.
>
> You guys mentioned about having to use virtual machines. Idk why Microsoft couldn't
> have all that built into the OS where the user can use any XP and up program. Well,
> that feature rarely worked in XP either, the "Run this program in compatibility mode
> = Windows 95". Anytime I ever tried using that it never worked.
Windows 3.1 + Calmira = Windows 95
Windows 95 + WindowBlinds = Windows 98
Windows 8 + Start8 = Windows 7 (!)
On a side note, in Windows 95/98 (and ME?), one could choose to run Program Manager and bring back the 3.x style desktop. Likewise, Windows 2000 up to 7 I believe had the option to use the Windows 95 theme alongside the Windows 2000 theme.
XP can most certainly be changed to use the Windows 2000 theme (as with Server 2003), and even the Windows 98 theme if you choose Windows Classic below rather than Windows Standard; a few tweaks later and 98 can become 95 - remove the automatically-generated gradients from the title bar and disable ClearType in the font options; Win9x versions all had basic font smoothing with the exception of a virgin 95 install, which needs the desktop update (which came with IE4).
Hopefully Windows 9, or even 8.2 if they are smart enough to think about another update (Windows 8's lifespan has been as short as Windows ME so far), will bring back the Windows UI everyone has known since 1995. It should have been an option from the beginning, start menu included. Removing the start menu from Windows is like going back to 1991.
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: RATMNL]
#324879 - 04/18/14 08:19 AM
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> > Anyway, Kega is not the most accurate emulator anymore, although it certainly works
> > for the 95% of games. Running Genesis Plus GX via RetroArch will allow you to run
> > non-butchered versions of Titan Overdrive among other things flawlessly once you
> get
> > used to the UI.
>
> Besides RetroArch, any other ideas for Master System?
MESS by a long shot. Most SMS emulators truncate the resolution to 256x192 whereas the real hardware was always letterboxed on the TV (think C64). I used to use Dega back in the early 2000s, having thought that Meka was slightly archaic in design (it gave away its DOS roots too easily, jumping straight to a low-res full screen interface).
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| Big Karnak |
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#324880 - 04/18/14 09:37 AM
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#324886 - 04/18/14 12:25 PM
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> It should have been an option from the
> beginning, start menu included.
There is no way they are bringing back all the old code to make it look like windows 2000/xp/vista etc. They've already shown a tile based start menu.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/04/f...the-start-menu/
Which is supposedly going to be part of the next windows 8.1 update.
> Removing the start menu from Windows is like going back to 1991.
Or correcting the mistake of adding it in 1995. Or are they never allowed to reverse bad decisions? Adding it was controversial, loads of people hated it when it first was added and demanded program manager instead. They even made the upgrade from 3.1 to 95 keep program manager as the shell. I admire Microsoft for taking on the luddites by removing the start menu.
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Big Karnak]
#324977 - 04/20/14 02:28 AM
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I would look at centralizing all your old emulation genre into an old PC, or look into other alternative platforms such as android or the classic Xbox.
That way you can upgrade your PC box to whatever without having to spend time tinkering which gets old quickly. These alternative platforms work quite well in cabinets, and can provide some distance between work or study and the dedicated session of Zelda.
Besides the faster the PC gets the harder to gimp it to play the classics. Obviously. MAME is the exception here.
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: RW-Column]
#324988 - 04/20/14 09:01 AM
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I agree with using an older PC, like a Pentium 4 or Core 2 Duo (or the AMD equivalent). I wouldn't touch an original Xbox with a ten foot pole, at least if MAME/MESS is being considered as one of the emulators. That said, they seem to do OK with the classic console emulators like the port of Snes9x - but so does my 1.2GHz Celeron from 2001, which was also quite happy playing anything up to UMK3 (the last MAME build used on that PC was 0.89, after which it was replaced with a new PC). Also, old PCs are practically thrown away whole these days, so they will be much cheaper than buying an Xbox and all the necessary parts.
Also, Xbox controllers. 
A late model Pentium 4 system wins hands down over an Xbox/Android (and blows away a Raspberry Pi), just avoid the Prescott CPUs if you can't keep them cool, e.g. SFF case or poorly ventilated cabinet. Hot internals will eventually lead to fried capacitors, which will eventually lead to a fried power supply or even the mainboard itself (bonus points if the PSU is a cheap one with all the power on the 5V rail and no guts on the 12V). One question though, does Microsoft still allow people to validate XP?
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| redk9258 |
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#324994 - 04/20/14 04:31 PM
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> One question though, does Microsoft still allow people to validate XP?
I think they have to unless they provide a patch that eliminates activation.
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| Big Karnak |
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#325019 - 04/21/14 05:28 AM
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Quote:
just avoid the Prescott CPUs if you can't keep them cool, e.g. SFF case or poorly ventilated cabinet
That's what I have now. I have a Dell 4700, Prescott 540 Intel Pentium 4 HT, 3.0 GHz. As I've said, I've had it for about ten years and never had to replace a single part and it's still running like the day I got it. Maybe I lucked out.
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Big Karnak]
#325024 - 04/21/14 10:02 AM
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> just avoid the Prescott CPUs if you can't keep them cool, e.g. SFF case or poorly
> ventilated cabinet
> That's what I have now. I have a Dell 4700, Prescott 540 Intel Pentium 4 HT, 3.0 GHz.
> As I've said, I've had it for about ten years and never had to replace a single part
> and it's still running like the day I got it. Maybe I lucked out.
Yeah, it really depends on the quality of the board and the components used. Look after it and it should last 5+ years, leave it untouched inside its box and you'll be lucky to get 2-3 years out of it before everything gets clogged up with dust causing everything to overheat and fail. Of course, that doesn't stop some manufacturers from using cheap or even fake components in order to make it fail by design 6 months after the warranty expires (planned obsolescence).
There have been numerous modern power supplies made which are designed for powering nothing more than a Pentium 2, yet they throw on the 4-pin 12V connector and SATA power connectors and sell it as the latest and greatest, and in real world use it fails within a year because it can't handle anything more than a few amps on the 12V rail and blows up while the 5V rail, with its 30+ amps rating, sits there doing almost nothing as the 5V-heavy CPU vanished after the Pentium 3!
My old Acer is closing in on 70000 hours on-time, bought Xmas 2005. This one has retained its stock 2.8GHz Celeron even though I have a few P4 CPUs which could be used in its place (including a 3.0 Prescott), I may as well keep it as original as possible now that it's reaching its retirement age.
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#325034 - 04/21/14 03:43 PM
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| Big Karnak |
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#325051 - 04/22/14 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Of course, that doesn't stop some manufacturers from using cheap or even fake components in order to make it fail by design 6 months after the warranty expires (planned obsolescence).
There have been numerous modern power supplies made which are designed for powering nothing more than a Pentium 2, yet they throw on the 4-pin 12V connector and SATA power connectors and sell it as the latest and greatest, and in real world use it fails within a year because it can't handle anything more than a few amps on the 12V rail and blows up while the 5V rail, with its 30+ amps rating, sits there doing almost nothing as the 5V-heavy CPU vanished after the Pentium 3!
That is why I purchased my Dell computer directly from the Dell.com website instead of a third party. By purchasing directly from Dell, it protects me from the shadiness you've mentioned. (I hope)
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Big Karnak]
#325054 - 04/22/14 07:48 AM
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> That is why I purchased my Dell computer directly from the Dell.com website instead
> of a third party. By purchasing directly from Dell, it protects me from the shadiness
> you've mentioned. (I hope)
Didn't stop Dell using dodgy capacitors in every GX270 tower back in the day. They invariably died after a few years.
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| Big Karnak |
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Part-time Lurker
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#325055 - 04/22/14 08:01 AM
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#325056 - 04/22/14 10:10 AM
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> Didn't stop Dell using dodgy capacitors in every GX270 tower back in the day. They
> invariably died after a few years.
Which is what on site warranty is for.
In the EU you could probably threaten to sue under consumer protection laws, I don't think they cover businesses though (and even if they do then the delay is likely to cost more than the cost of the warranty).
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: ]
#325058 - 04/22/14 11:40 AM
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> > Didn't stop Dell using dodgy capacitors in every GX270 tower back in the day. They
> > invariably died after a few years.
>
> Which is what on site warranty is for.
>
> In the EU you could probably threaten to sue under consumer protection laws, I don't
> think they cover businesses though (and even if they do then the delay is likely to
> cost more than the cost of the warranty).
Sure, you have everything on lease, so they get replaced. It's the inconvenience and lost productivity from PCs dying that's the real problem.
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#325059 - 04/22/14 11:47 AM
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> Didn't stop Dell using dodgy capacitors in every GX270 tower back in the day. They
> invariably died after a few years.
Argh!! Those and the IBM Netvista towers were my nemesis back in the day. Some Dell Netbooks with bad welded chipsets too.
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#325061 - 04/22/14 12:48 PM
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> Sure, you have everything on lease, so they get replaced. It's the inconvenience and
> lost productivity from PCs dying that's the real problem.
Yeah, the dodgy capacitors was a big deal and not just limited to dell though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: ]
#325063 - 04/22/14 01:23 PM
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> > Sure, you have everything on lease, so they get replaced. It's the inconvenience
> and
> > lost productivity from PCs dying that's the real problem.
>
> Yeah, the dodgy capacitors was a big deal and not just limited to dell though.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
That was the era where I basically boycotted MSI. Had enough of two year old boards with bulging GSC caps. At least they use Rubycon these days, when they aren't using polymer caps.
Antec used to use Fuhjyyu caps in their power supplies until it was found that they were falling well short of their expected lifetime; Antec learned their lesson as well.
On a side note, even the big companies like Nichicon had a shaky start to the millennium with their HM/HN series, and Nippon Chemi-con with their KZG/KZJ caps.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#325071 - 04/22/14 07:57 PM
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> Didn't stop Dell using dodgy capacitors in every GX270 tower back in the day. They
> invariably died after a few years.
That's because they don't design or make their own motherboards, they get 'em from Foxconn.
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Re: Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
[Re: R. Belmont]
#325072 - 04/22/14 08:40 PM
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> That's because they don't design or make their own motherboards, they get 'em from
> Foxconn.
Some people seem convinced Intel has been doing the same since 2001.
I've not found anything official though.
Edited by smf (04/22/14 08:44 PM)
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Index 
Threaded 
Retro emulators that aren't compatible with Win 8
Reply
[Re: 
[/trolling]
. Oh and btw, it's still as fast as it was the day I bought it. I still can't believe it's been ten years. I bet new computers these days won't last that long. "They don't make'em like they used to." I think the 'secret' is to shut down the computer when you're finished using it and to make sure every few years you clean/blow out all the dust in the tower. Ya won't believe how much dust builds up in there.
Shame on them! 
